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Topic: Step cover / Air step explained (Read 1644 times) previous topic - next topic

Step cover / Air step explained

Could one of you please refresh my memory on what the two valves behind the entry steps are in charge of?

I THOUGHT the one closer to the front of the coach was for the air cylinder that moves the step cover and the rear one was for the fold-down air step.

However, I shutoff both valves and can still see/hear air leaking from the old norgren valve (see picture) and both the step cover and fold-down step still function when closing the door or hitting the switch for the cover. It's been a while since I messed with these valves but I *thought* that shutting them both off would prevent operation of both cover and step.

Unfortunately the air diagram I have just dead-ends before the valves in question so I'm having to reverse engineer this.

My ultimate goal here is to shut them off until I can get a 12v valve put in on the feed line so bonus points for you if you can recommend a 12v valve and tell me where/how you mounted it to the chassis.
1987 Grand Villa ORED
2001 U320 4010

Not all that wander are lost... but I often am.

Re: Step cover / Air step explained

Reply #1 –
On our regulators if they are cranked all the way clockwise (like the1st.  pics. states) then they are wide opened no matter what the gauge reads.

Mike
Pamela & Mike 97 U 320

"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters."

Re: Step cover / Air step explained

Reply #2 –
That coach of your Elliott ever clean looking underneath that coach never been up North
Rick & Hilda looking forward to full- timing one day for now couple of months at a time
1999 U270 3602
Built number  5530.  Feb 1999            Motorcade  number 18438
8.3 Cummins Allison six speed with brake  retarder
Purchased Nov 28 2019

Re: Step cover / Air step explained

Reply #3 –
Those are pressure regulators, not valves.  Like Mike said, a regulator will be at highest pressure when the knob is turned all the way clockwise.  Turn it counterclockwise (or anticlockwise for our British friends) to reduce the pressure to 0.
Forest & Cindy Olivier
1987 log cabin
2011 Roadtrek C210P
no longer 1999 36' U320 build #5522
2013 Rzr 570 & 2018 Ranger XP1000
2006 Lexus GX470
2011 Tahoe LT 4x4
Previous 1998 45' 2 slide Newell, 1993 39' Newell

Re: Step cover / Air step explained

Reply #4 –
 :headwall:

This is exactly why I mentioned which direction I turned them; just in case. Thanks guys.

Still looking forward to insight on the 12v valve
1987 Grand Villa ORED
2001 U320 4010

Not all that wander are lost... but I often am.

Re: Step cover / Air step explained

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Elliott –
Still looking forward to insight on the 12v valve

Please expand on the project as to what you are trying to accomplish.. Are you just trying to add another norgren valve for some purpose?

Mike


Pamela & Mike 97 U 320

"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters."

Re: Step cover / Air step explained

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Pamela & Mike –
Please expand on the project as to what you are trying to accomplish.. Are you just trying to add another norgren valve for some purpose?
I'm going to add a cheap 12v solenoid to the airline that feeds both norgren valves. I'll switch it on when in travel mode and otherwise have it turned off when parked so the norgren valves and air cylinder don't leak all my air out.
1987 Grand Villa ORED
2001 U320 4010

Not all that wander are lost... but I often am.

Re: Step cover / Air step explained

Reply #7 –
The valve without power sends the air to the cylinder or cylinders to extend or retract
the cylinder or cylinders depending on how they are plumed and when 12 volts is
applied to the valve it allows the air to be released and send air to the opposite side
of the cylinders.
Peter and Frieda Morin
1999 36ft. U320 Foretravel
Build # 5436
1998 Suzuki Sidekick Sport

Re: Step cover / Air step explained

Reply #8 –
The valve for the step should be plumed with the no 12 volts with the step
down and the other valve should be plumed with the slide in with no 12 volts
to the valve. On mine the front Norgren valve is for the step slide.
Peter and Frieda Morin
1999 36ft. U320 Foretravel
Build # 5436
1998 Suzuki Sidekick Sport

Re: Step cover / Air step explained

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Elliott –
I'm going to add a cheap 12v solenoid to the airline that feeds both norgren valves.

Ellliott,

Barry has a complete parts list and how to for what you are doing.    I will need some time to find his post. If Barry sees this he will chime in also.

Mike

I think this is what you are looking for.
Step slide air shut off valve to preserve cylinder
Pamela & Mike 97 U 320

"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters."

Re: Step cover / Air step explained

Reply #10 –
Reviewing this post brought me some work on the norgren units controlling the step cover.
After reading your article Elliott I got under the coach to check on the norgren units as my stair cover has never worked.  Fooling around with the pressure regulators resulted in me getting it working again (hurrah).
I noticed while adjusting the regulator that the step cover leaked a bit so I discharged all the air from the the front brake tanks (left tank drivers side..right?)  and took the connections apart, and put on thread sealer and re connected them.
All seemed good as I could not get it to leak while soaking it with bubble solution
I left it for about 2 full days and noticed my step had fallen ( I have the the rework done to keep the step up with the engine off). So I check my air gauges and the front is down to about 30 lbs while my rear brake is still good at about 100
Is there something I am missing?  Is the front left brake tank the only source of a air and air lines to the step/stair cover? 
OR do I disconnect the original air leak spot connections and start again?
Peter    Alberta Canada
'98 U320 40'  Build 5359 M11 450 HP, Aqua hot, Blu Ox

Re: Step cover / Air step explained

Reply #11 –
Sources for 12VDC solenoid valves.

Automation Direct is more user friendly than Festo.

https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/overview/catalog/pneumatic_components/basic_directional_control_solenoid_valves

But Festo is the go to source for power users.

https://www.festo.com/us/en/e/festo-solenoid-valves-id_412576/
1992 Foretravel Grand Villa
U225 SBID Build No. 4134
1986 Rockwood Driftwood
1968 S.I.A.T.A. Spring
1962 Studebaker Lark
1986 Honda VF700C
1983 Honda VF750C
Charlie, the Dog was broken out of jail 24 Oct 2023
N1RPN
AA1OH (H)e who must be obeyed.

Re: Step cover / Air step explained

Reply #12 –
Old Toolmaker
so you are suggesting I require solenoid valves? I think my norgren units are ok as they do not leak when I spray them
Peter
Peter    Alberta Canada
'98 U320 40'  Build 5359 M11 450 HP, Aqua hot, Blu Ox

Re: Step cover / Air step explained

Reply #13 –
Quote from: dicksop –
Old Toolmaker
so you are suggesting I require solenoid valves? I think my Norgren units are ok as they do not leak when I spray them
Peter

The hair on the back of my neck rises when people refer to air valve by a brand name.  Bendix set the stage for air brake nomenclature, and calling the valves that operate your step and door Norgren valves just makes it unnecessarily difficult to source replacement parts.  What I'm trying to teach is that solenoid valves are a commodity item available from the catalog.

But I gotta ask you Peter: Are you checking just the in and out connections?  It's possible that the internal seals may be leaving this world for the choir invisible and air may be leaving via the exhaust port, or even through the air cylinders themselves.

FWIW Automation Direct was my go to source for "electronics" and actuators until Quality Control insisted on using Allen Bradley "because they're ISO certified," and "Management" wanted Festo because, well, they're German.  Automation direct is not only great for beginners, but you only buy what you need.  Allen Bradley is great for proprietary content than changes on an annual basis.  Festo is great if you want to build a pneumatic computer operating actuators in an intrinsicly safe mode for hazardous enviroments.
1992 Foretravel Grand Villa
U225 SBID Build No. 4134
1986 Rockwood Driftwood
1968 S.I.A.T.A. Spring
1962 Studebaker Lark
1986 Honda VF700C
1983 Honda VF750C
Charlie, the Dog was broken out of jail 24 Oct 2023
N1RPN
AA1OH (H)e who must be obeyed.

Re: Step cover / Air step explained

Reply #14 –
Make sure when testing for leaks that you check the exhaust ports. That was why I changed
mine as they were leaking from the exhaust posts.
Peter and Frieda Morin
1999 36ft. U320 Foretravel
Build # 5436
1998 Suzuki Sidekick Sport

Re: Step cover / Air step explained

Reply #15 –
Ok I will check the exhaust ports. I should be able to spray them and see leakage correct?
Peter    Alberta Canada
'98 U320 40'  Build 5359 M11 450 HP, Aqua hot, Blu Ox

Re: Step cover / Air step explained

Reply #16 –
I believe that's how I found them leaking.
Peter and Frieda Morin
1999 36ft. U320 Foretravel
Build # 5436
1998 Suzuki Sidekick Sport

Re: Step cover / Air step explained

Reply #17 –
Quote from: dicksop –
Ok I will check the exhaust ports. I should be able to spray them and see leakage correct?
Yes, but make sure you have over ~75psi in the front tank so that the protection valve opens up and delivers air to that part of the system.
1987 Grand Villa ORED
2001 U320 4010

Not all that wander are lost... but I often am.

Re: Step cover / Air step explained

Reply #18 –
Elliott,
yes I wait until the d2 Governor kicks in, which is about 125 LBS.

Peter,
Do you have an idea on where to purchase the exhaust ports in Canada?
Lots for sale in a variety of places states wise but unsure where they are located for purchase in Canada.
Peter
Peter    Alberta Canada
'98 U320 40'  Build 5359 M11 450 HP, Aqua hot, Blu Ox

Re: Step cover / Air step explained

Reply #19 –
If it is leaking out the exhaust ports the valve needs to be replaced.
Peter and Frieda Morin
1999 36ft. U320 Foretravel
Build # 5436
1998 Suzuki Sidekick Sport

Re: Step cover / Air step explained

Reply #20 –
Quote from: dicksop –
Elliott,
yes I wait until the d2 Governor kicks in, which is about 125 LBS.

Peter,
Do you have an idea on where to purchase the exhaust ports in Canada?
Lots for sale in a variety of places states wise but unsure where they are located for purchase in Canada.
Peter


You'll need to find your local source for industrial supplies.  Festo is an international company, but it's fast pitch hardball compared to Automation Direct, and their catalog is best deciphered for the new-bee by one of their sales engineers.  Unless you really love catalogs.
1992 Foretravel Grand Villa
U225 SBID Build No. 4134
1986 Rockwood Driftwood
1968 S.I.A.T.A. Spring
1962 Studebaker Lark
1986 Honda VF700C
1983 Honda VF750C
Charlie, the Dog was broken out of jail 24 Oct 2023
N1RPN
AA1OH (H)e who must be obeyed.

Re: Step cover / Air step explained

Reply #21 –
If it is leaking out the exhaust ports the valve needs to be replaced.

OR removed, taken apart (after all it was going to be trashed), easily cleaned, lightly lubed and put back together for a probable long life without concern for handling the different mounting issues with a replacement.

Also, for the inside step slide, since it does not need constant air pressure to hold it in either direction, think about installing a 3-way valve to relieve air pressure after the slide is moved in either direction, to greatly increase life of air cylinder piston, which can be difficult to replace.

Re: Step cover / Air step explained

Reply #22 –
Quote from: Barry & Cindy –

Also, for the inside step slide, since it does not need constant air pressure to hold it in either direction, think about installing a 3-way valve to relieve air pressure after the slide is moved in either direction, to greatly increase life of air cylinder piston, which can be difficult to replace.
If the right Norgren valve is leaking, it already does that :-)

Agreed though, The leaking cylinder is a pain. I ended up installing a solenoid before that entire corner to prevent leak down because it was much easier than replacing that cylinder.
1987 Grand Villa ORED
2001 U320 4010

Not all that wander are lost... but I often am.

Re: Step cover / Air step explained

Reply #23 –
So I found the step norgren upper exhaust is leaking. Is it feasible to clean/ overhaul the norgren to get me by for a while. And what is the process?
Peter    Alberta Canada
'98 U320 40'  Build 5359 M11 450 HP, Aqua hot, Blu Ox

Re: Step cover / Air step explained

Reply #24 –
I took mine apart hopping I could change the O rings on the plunger but the whole
plunger is rubberized so I couldn't fix it. Do you have a place like Pacific Controls they
may have something that will work.
Peter and Frieda Morin
1999 36ft. U320 Foretravel
Build # 5436
1998 Suzuki Sidekick Sport