Recommendations for Inverter for older coaches [split from Re: Transfer switch(es) and inverter]

Topic: Recommendations for Inverter for older coaches [split from Re: Transfer switch(es) and inverter] (Read 585 times) previous topic - next topic - Topic derived from Transfer switch(es) a...

Recommendations for Inverter for older coaches [split from Re: Transfer switch(es) and inverter]

September 26, 2021, 08:43:57 am

OK, after reading this total string, my heads a swimmin' !!!!! Our coach is a 1989 Grand Villa and still has the OE inverter/converters (I think). What would be recommended in my case?

Re: Recommendations for Inverter for older coaches [split from Re: Transfer switch(es) and inverter]

Reply #1 – September 26, 2021, 08:59:48 am

Big John,

I would be a little surprised if your 1989 came with an inverter/charger.

Likely a converter.

No idea what some previous owner added.

Certainly worth visually checking to see exactly what you have.

Re: Recommendations for Inverter for older coaches [split from Re: Transfer switch(es) and inverter]

Reply #2 – September 26, 2021, 09:26:45 am

Quote from: warbirdlvr – September 26, 2021, 08:43:57 am

OK, after reading this total string, my heads a swimmin' !!!!! Our coach is a 1989 Grand Villa and still has the OE inverter/converters (I think). What would be recommended in my case?

I can actually help answer that, in an abstract way. The big question is if you desire 120 VAC in your coach without being plugged into shore power or running your generator. If you have a residential refrigerator, almost certainly a "yes." If you depend on 120VAC medical equipment, almost certainly "yes."

Some people go wild! Solar panels, lithium batteries - electrical systems so extensive that a generator or shore power are no longer necessary for all of the 120VAC comforts. For us, it comes down to such a simple and dumb thing. I want to make coffee in a campground in the morning, and not disturb other people. If there is no shore power, I can start our inverter and use the Keurig to make a cup of coffee. If we did not already have a nice inverter (thanks previous owners!), I likely would buy a french press.

Thanks all for the viewpoints - I know better where I am going now.

Re: Recommendations for Inverter for older coaches [split from Re: Transfer switch(es) and inverter]

Reply #3 – September 26, 2021, 09:48:28 am

Quote from: warbirdlvr – September 26, 2021, 08:43:57 am

OK, after reading this total string, my heads a swimmin' !!!!! Our coach is a 1989 Grand Villa and still has the OE inverter/converters (I think). What would be recommended in my case?

Our 1992 U225 came with a Progressive Dynamics 9160 and I added the charge controller to unleash its 3-stage charger glory.
We now have two PD 9260s,, one for the house battery and one for the chassis. Do to recent advances in life, I'll be adding an inverter with a dedicated outlet for medical equipment. The generator can do service as backup for the inverter.

IF your '89 still has the original power converter, you would be doing your house battery a big favor by upgrading to a more modern power converter.

Re: Recommendations for Inverter for older coaches [split from Re: Transfer switch(es) and inverter]

Reply #4 – September 26, 2021, 10:06:43 am

Okydokie, Ours has a converter mounted on the drivers side frame near the fuel filters. It is a finned affair and is silver in color. I need to look again under the bed to see for sure what is there. Will advise if needed. I have seen all kinds of recommendations. What would be the best most economic converter AND inverter a person could add? Where would the inverter activation "switch?" be located if an inverter is added?

Re: Recommendations for Inverter for older coaches [split from Re: Transfer switch(es) and inverter]

Reply #5 – September 26, 2021, 10:26:28 am

Quote from: warbirdlvr – September 26, 2021, 10:06:43 am

What would be the best most economic converter AND inverter a person could add?

Big John,

Your question is much too broad to easily answer. Before upgrading from OEM equipment to a modern inverter/charger you need to do some analysis of your particular situation. As mentioned above, the choice of equipment depends on what you want to power. You must also consider how much battery capacity you have, how much space you have to mount new equipment, and what wiring modifications will be needed.

1. Do an "audit" of your AC powered devices in the coach. Decide what you want to power with the inverter. This will tell you how "big" you need to go. To power one device you may only need a small inverter.

2. Inverters require battery power to operate. How much battery capacity do you have? Do you have room to add more batteries if desired? Remember, you can only use half the rated capacity of your battery bank if you want your batteries to stay healthy.

3. Ideally, a inverter should be located as close to the batteries as possible. Do you have space available to mount a inverter? Small inverters are fairly easy to mount and hook up because they only need light duty connecting wires to the batteries. Big heavy inverters require strong mounting brackets and heavy duty battery cables that are more difficult to run.

4. Most smaller inverters do not have provision for a remote control panel. Larger inverters that have a remote control option usually use light gauge wire (looks like telephone wire) to connect the remote. It is easy to run to wherever you want to mount the panel.

Re: Recommendations for Inverter for older coaches [split from Re: Transfer switch(es) and inverter]

Reply #6 – September 26, 2021, 10:28:18 am

Quote from: warbirdlvr – September 26, 2021, 10:06:43 am

What would be the best most economic converter AND inverter a person could add? Where would the inverter activation "switch?" be located if an inverter is added?

Again whether you just need a smart converter, a small inverter/charger or a large inverter charger with larger battery bank with/without solar, lithium batteries, etc really depends on your needs and how you will use the coach.

You can spend under $200 or several thousand.

Re: Recommendations for Inverter for older coaches [split from Re: Transfer switch(es) and inverter]

Reply #7 – September 26, 2021, 10:50:16 am

Quote from: warbirdlvr – September 26, 2021, 08:43:57 am

OK, after reading this total string, my heads a swimmin' !!!!! Our coach is a 1989 Grand Villa and still has the OE inverter/converters (I think). What would be recommended in my case?

Our 1996 U300 came with a Taytronics 1500 watt inverter plus a converter that had an early date in this century. I have to say that the Taytronics worked flawlessly for many years but the voltage dropped like a rock when it was switched on. I was never happy with the maintenance voltage the Power Max converter put out as it was never stable. Our new Progressive Dynamics works well keeping the house and engine batteries (lighter plug to lighter plug jumper) at about 13.2V. It's only 45 amps but since we are solar, it's never used when traveling.

Once I was able to lift the very heavy Taytronics inverter out of the coach, I replaced it with an old Trace (now Centronics) inverter I bought new in 1989 and added a 1500 watt Edecoa sine wave inverter next to it. The Edecoa weights nothing and has a nice remote panel. After almost 30 years, the Trace fired up instantly but I had to set the wattage for the pulse switch higher as it ran all the time rather than checking to see if there was anything on every second. Either inverter will run the MW as well as 2 Senco compressors at the same time. Senco compressors are pretty quiet, deliver pressure for tires and have low startup requirements. Our larger contractor's compressor would wake the dead when it came on and the inverters would not start it.

A couple of days ago, I found a fellow that was displeased with his NPower 2000 watt sine wave inverter as it was unhappy running his new microwave that he recently bought and sold it to me for $60. I needed one for a 110V pole saw for all the trees with branches over our driveway.

A couple of tidbits about inverters. A microwave may consume twice the watts advertised starting up and when on a lower power setting switching on and off. Inverters seem to last the longest when operating at about 2/3 of their rating for long periods of time. Modified sine wave inverters don't deliver the approx. 177 VAC peaks that microwaves need to operate like at home. The heavier transformer type inverters will generally start a bigger load and for longer. All inverters should have a time/wattage graph that will help plus idle watt usage, etc. The Trace is 90%+ efficient while the Edecoa is about 94% efficient.

We are like Matt B and never start the generator unless needed for AC. An old coach from around 1990 will consume half the watts if converted to LED lighting, TV, etc. Microwaves require the most juice along with a latte maker. Any inverter will operate an RV fridge all day easily from the solar panels and only needs propane at night when temps are the coolest so propane usage is minimal.

Pierce

Re: Recommendations for Inverter for older coaches [split from Re: Transfer switch(es) and inverter]

Reply #8 – September 26, 2021, 11:30:43 am

Since we don't have solar panels, and our microwave is OE, and I would want to use my Keurig for my coffee, and my bride is an Earl Grey tea fan out of her OWN electric tea pot, I guess it goes without saying I better buy all the wattage I feel I can afford when the time comes. Our battery bank consisrs of 2 8D8 wet cell batteries. No more room at the inn, unless I went thru the process of relocating the chassis battery back towards the "Kitty's" house, but that would take a little thought. I do have room under the bed, but that's a ways from the battery right now. I believe first things first, and thats to update the converter first, and work from there. As always, thanks to all for your expert input.....

Re: Recommendations for Inverter for older coaches [split from Re: Transfer switch(es) and inverter]

Reply #9 – September 26, 2021, 12:03:13 pm

With just two 8 D batteries, THEY will limit the practical size of the inverter.

Said another way, installing an expensive 3000 watt inverter and using it toward the higher end of its capacity will require you to run your generator to recharge the batteries for longer than if you just ran the generator to power the devices in the first place (Battery charging is NOT 100% efficient).

Again, as with anything, evaluate your "break even" point for generator use vs upgraded electrical system.

No right or wrong answers, just go through this for how you will use the coach.

Re: Recommendations for Inverter for older coaches [split from Re: Transfer switch(es) and inverter]

Reply #10 – September 26, 2021, 12:17:58 pm

Unless you are prepared to do some expensive modifications to house a third battery. I looked long and hard at solar for our coach and the numbers just weren't there. you probably have the 65 gallon propane tank so unless your generator is shot. IMO

Re: Recommendations for Inverter for older coaches [split from Re: Transfer switch(es) and inverter]

Reply #11 – September 26, 2021, 12:35:36 pm

Hey, BTW, I have one of these brand new in the box. It was in one of my cabinets. Its specific to SOB, but you never know what could be done. It is the control panel circuit board for a battery monitor in the Fleetwood line....

Re: Recommendations for Inverter for older coaches [split from Re: Transfer switch(es) and inverter]

Reply #12 – September 26, 2021, 12:39:55 pm

You two just confirmed my POA. Upgrade the converter and run my genny when needed! Wonder how folks would like a glass pack on it?

? just a thought, you know, just being ornery.....
Seriously, though, we plan on keeping this coach till the end, so, just like race cars, you'll never get out of them what you have in them, but lotsa fun and enjoyment!!!!!

Re: Recommendations for Inverter for older coaches [split from Re: Transfer switch(es) and inverter]

Reply #13 – September 26, 2021, 01:23:23 pm

Big John & Mary Lou, we have a similar setup and to preserve inverter, batteries, and generator, when not on shore power:

Never run our several high wattage appliances on inverter, as they just draw down battery which has to be recharged by running generator. Batteries will last 10 years if not discharged below around 12.3 volts.

Generators like to be exercised, so we run gen for microwave & appliances with heating elements.

Everything in our motorhome is on limited resources and life on the road is different than in a stick-home. Even spending to add solar may not be worth it as solar is not as fast or consistent as charging with battery charger.

Never a good idea to run multiple high wattage appliances at the same time. Turn something off before turning something on. A keen awareness of electrical loads will go a long way to making RVing fun. Maybe a label on each appliance showing 120-volt watts and or 12-volt inverter amps.

We do not consider inverter maximum rated watts to be something to challenge. Generally everything lives longer if not used at or near maximum rated capacity.

Some of this also applies to when we are on 20-amp shore power and sometimes on 30-amp shore power.

Our high wattage appliances (especially heaters) are plugged into 120-volt outlets that are never powered by inverter. Do this to prevent inverter inadvertently drawing batteries down if we accidently loose shore power.

Re: Recommendations for Inverter for older coaches [split from Re: Transfer switch(es) and inverter]

Reply #14 – September 26, 2021, 02:04:07 pm

That would be my POA. I very seldom at the house run multiple high wattage items together. So much easier on everything. We are going to need an inverter for medical items in the future. Normally, we are on shore power or Genny power. But, for a medical item backup, an inverter would be nice! Thats what I'll work toward, but I do want to upgrade my converter first. Again, thanks to all!!!!

Re: Recommendations for Inverter for older coaches [split from Re: Transfer switch(es) and inverter]

Reply #15 – September 26, 2021, 02:26:48 pm

Quote from: warbirdlvr – September 26, 2021, 02:04:07 pm

Thats what I'll work toward, but I do want to upgrade my converter first.

Strong suggestion:

If you are going with an inverter, make it a PSW inverter WITH BUILT IN SMART CHARGER. This is a common choice and a good one to upgrade your electrical system.

This will be less $$ than a separate inverter and separate smart converter/charger.

Re: Recommendations for Inverter for older coaches [split from Re: Transfer switch(es) and inverter]

Reply #16 – September 26, 2021, 03:19:01 pm

Brett, are you inferring this inverter will take the place of the converter/charger?

Re: Recommendations for Inverter for older coaches [split from Re: Transfer switch(es) and inverter]

Reply #17 – September 26, 2021, 03:50:53 pm

Quote from: warbirdlvr – September 26, 2021, 03:19:01 pm

Brett, are you inferring this inverter will take the place of the converter/charger?

Not Brett, but YES. A modern combination Pure Sine Wave inverter/battery charger will perform BOTH functions.

When it is supplied with 115V power (from shore or generator) it acts as a "smart" battery charger (and converter). Charger output normally goes to HOUSE (coach) battery bank.

When acting as a battery charger, some (or all, depending on model) of the 115V power (shore or generator) is ALSO "passed through" the unit to the "Inverter Sub-panel" (see next line).

When the 115V power supply is removed, it acts as a pure sine wave inverter. Inverter output is routed to a "Inverter Sub-Panel". Circuits you want powered by inverter connect to this panel.

If both functions are left in the "READY" position, switching between the two modes is automatic.

See typical installation diagram below:

Re: Recommendations for Inverter for older coaches [split from Re: Transfer switch(es) and inverter]

Reply #18 – September 26, 2021, 04:21:31 pm

Yup, two functions in one. The absolute way to go if you need an inverter:

PSW (Pure Sine Wave) inverter/charger.

Let us know your power requirements for your medical equipment and we can make recommendations for specific choices.

Re: Recommendations for Inverter for older coaches [split from Re: Transfer switch(es) and inverter]

Reply #19 – September 26, 2021, 04:31:43 pm

You might be able to fit a couple L16 batteries in place of the 8D's you currently have.

Re: Recommendations for Inverter for older coaches [split from Re: Transfer switch(es) and inverter]

Reply #20 – September 26, 2021, 05:22:07 pm

Here we go! IMHO, a 3000W unit would more than do the trick. Here are the loads, and you guys please please guide me on this:
CPAP 200W Max
CPAP 200W Max
Coffee Pot 1500W
Most everything else on the coach: 66.7 Amps Leg 1
62.1 Amps Leg 2
(no watt figures on the coach itself.
I mainly want to be able to keep both CPAPS running and the ice box (refrigerator to the younger world. I don't guess I knew what a fridge was till I was 10-12 years old.)
Please, your recommendations will be happily accepted....

Re: Recommendations for Inverter for older coaches [split from Re: Transfer switch(es) and inverter]

Reply #21 – September 26, 2021, 05:28:10 pm

OK, the largest load you want to be able to run (and only for a short time) is 1500 watts.

So, a 2000 watt PSW inverter/charger will fit your needs.

Buying larger is both more $$ and more standby load on the battery bank.

Re: Recommendations for Inverter for older coaches [split from Re: Transfer switch(es) and inverter]

Reply #22 – September 26, 2021, 05:36:32 pm

You want to use an inverter/charger with a very low power consumption just to be on and one that is efficient.

Many are using Victron equipment for an integrated suite of equipment for many funtions. A Multiplus 3000VA is a common choice for an inverter. Discounts for Forum members at Bay Marine. Quite a bit cheaper than a comparable Magnum and a 5 year warranty as well.
Victron MultiPlus 3000VA Inverter/Charger

You can get a remote panel but you don't have to.
Victron Digital Multi Control 200/200A

And a Victron BMV712 battery monitor rounds out a basic setup.
Victron BMV-712 Smart Battery Monitor with Built-In Bluetooth

If you don't have an inverter now then some 120v wiring may be needed.

If you need help just ask. Many here to help.

Re: Recommendations for Inverter for older coaches [split from Re: Transfer switch(es) and inverter]

Reply #23 – September 26, 2021, 05:44:49 pm

Quote from: warbirdlvr – September 26, 2021, 05:22:07 pm

I mainly want to be able to keep both CPAPS running and the ice box (refrigerator to the younger world. I don't guess I knew what a fridge was till I was 10-12 years old.)
Please, your recommendations will be happily accepted....

FWIW, I buy sanitized used CPAPs from my vendor that run on 12 volts DC. I pay around $100-150 for one. I have bought several because I use them for off-road, tent-camping trips, and they die from abuse. (I recently bought a sealing, padded case which should reduce the carnage!) In the coach, I plug them into an accessory outlet. When in the tent, I use one of these - charges in the car, and a charge lasts for several nights.

Amazon.com : 300W Solar Generator, FlashFish 60000mAh Portable Power Station...

No doubt a properly-sized inverter would be the most convenient route

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: Recommendations for Inverter for older coaches [split from Re: Transfer switch(es) and inverter]

Reply #24 – September 26, 2021, 05:59:34 pm

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Pierce

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