Swapping Dinette for Dual Work Space

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Swapping Dinette for Dual Work Space

October 26, 2021, 01:30:03 pm

My next project is to get us a more viable work space in the coach. We've decided we do not want to extend the slide floor so that means we'll have to face each other instead of looking out the window. I'd like to mount two sets of monitor arms on the wall as shown in my attached photo. I'll have to build the "column" shown in red to allow the arms to reach high enough so the monitors are at eye height.

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One set of arms will be for monitors and the other set for keyboards. The monitors will be 32" "ultrawide" monitors that weigh about 15lbs each. Combine that with the leverage created by fully extended monitor arms, and it'll be a fair bit of weigh the column needs to hold.

My first question is: what's the best way to attach the column to the wall? Is the slide like the rest of the rig with steel "studs" with plywood over them? Do I need to build some metal brackets that extend between studs and attach the column to the bracket? Will a stud finder be able to find those studs?

I'm thinking I'll use [electro?]magnets to hold the arms flat against the wall when we're moving.

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Re: Swapping Dinette for Work Dual Space

Reply #1 – October 26, 2021, 04:22:18 pm

If the internal framework of the slide is steel you can locate structure with a strong magnet. Most likely some vertical and some diagonal members, maybe a horizontal piece below the windows. The "plywood" alone will not support what you're proposing. There is steel structure in the floor of the slide. See how you table column was mounted. It was all steel surrounded buy wood.

Is there enough room for feet and legs? Where are papers, documents, books etc going to go?

If you had 4 legged chairs maybe bigger wheels on two legs and a pair of fold up work surfaces on either side of a central column?

Re: Swapping Dinette for Work Dual Space

Reply #2 – October 26, 2021, 04:46:44 pm

Good idea regarding the magnet

Quote from: Roger & Susan in Home2 – October 26, 2021, 04:22:18 pm

Is there enough room for feet and legs? Where are papers, documents, books etc going to go?

If you had 4 legged chairs maybe bigger wheels on two legs and a pair of fold up work surfaces on either side of a central column?

Yea, there's enough room even for my big frame but just barely. Papers, documents, books etc... we don't really have but I do need to find a home for the laptops and things like headphones. Possibly a little "cubbie" or slot that you can slide the closed laptop into that's mounted on the wall and a hook for headphones.

My original thought was to just run a nice wood desk the whole length of the window and have us face out the window but I couldn't come up with an elegant solution that didn't require extending the slide floor. The plan is to spend months at a time in the coach, working 40/week so I want to have proper office chairs, though I've toyed with the idea of removing the wheels in favor of a base I can mount to the floor.

Re: Swapping Dinette for Work Dual Space

Reply #3 – October 26, 2021, 06:01:47 pm

If you are a Motorcade member, you can contact FT tech support and request a copy of the drawing for the slide room framing. They gave me a copy for mine.

Rich

Re: Swapping Dinette for Dual Work Space

Reply #4 – October 26, 2021, 09:44:49 pm

Elliot-

My first thought is you look like you are going down a path that may detract/limit you if you ever want to sell it. Lots of things can be add-ons but sometimes additions can take away. Unsure if you have kids or plan to, but I would think most families would pass on a rig with this feature. And if they are a pair of empty nesters, they may be retired or not planning on working when traveling. You may not sell it for years, but something to keep in mind.

That said, I have concerns that the weight on the walls coupled with the bouncing/bumping down the road would cause a lot of pressure on the arms. If you strap them to the wall, that would help a lot vs keeping them extended. I am also unsure what would be needed to attach them securely to handle the weight. I am sure it can be done but there is not a lot of space to drill into this. A 1/2 or 3/4 inch screw would not be enough for me, but again this is not my wheelhouse.

Have you thought about adding a table instead? You could support from the wall so it won't fall but also have legs. Depending on your height, a telescoping desk there would be awesome. Once you have one of these you won't go back to a fixed legged desk. You could get one long enough to fit the width of the raised slide area. You'd have to figure a way to keep the chairs from moving, like a bungee, I am sure there are more elegant products that a crude piece of rubber.

my half pence...

Re: Swapping Dinette for Dual Work Space

Reply #5 – October 26, 2021, 10:14:45 pm

I had David Flanagan put a dinette in my 2000 replacing the "J" lounge. Dinette is 11/-2" thick solid walnut, (think big and heavy) supported entirely by one substantial bracket attached to the wall.

Likely if you want a fixed table (vs folding) no legs would be required.

Worth a call to FOT and MOT remodel shops to pick their brain and get a drawing and a quote even if ultimately you opt to DIY....

Save the take out stuff in case next owner wants it back in.

Re: Swapping Dinette for Dual Work Space

Reply #6 – October 27, 2021, 12:43:30 am

Elliott, as Roger suggested you should get a strong neodymium magnet and check the wall of the slide for steel structure there. Pretty sure they were all built to have either a floor mounted table like you had, or a dinette table mounted to the wall under the window as was the case in my 2001. At least in my sister ship to yours, there is substantial structure there for the wall mounted table that came from the assembly line that way. Just don't drill past 2 inches or so!!! W.

Re: Swapping Dinette for Dual Work Space

Reply #7 – October 27, 2021, 10:59:52 am

Quote from: Jason – October 26, 2021, 09:44:49 pm

My first thought is you look like you are going down a path that may detract/limit you if you ever want to sell it. Lots of things can be add-ons but sometimes additions can take away. Unsure if you have kids or plan to, but I would think most families would pass on a rig with this feature. And if they are a pair of empty nesters, they may be retired or not planning on working when traveling. You may not sell it for years, but something to keep in mind.

I'll probably snag another J lounge from MOT if/when the time comes to sell. We're still a couple decades away from retirement so a proper ergonomic work space is a must-have if we want to enjoy the coach for extended periods of time. Gotta DWMYH

Once my magnet gets here I'll map the studs out and report back. I know this is doable because of the wall-mounted table that both Tim and Woody had/have, those aren't light. The trick is going to be making it visually appealing as well.

Re: Swapping Dinette for Dual Work Space

Reply #8 – October 27, 2021, 11:15:41 am

Me? Had an old hard drive. Took it apart to see what does what just to satisfy my curiosity.
Found a magnet in the innards.
WOW!! Sure is powerful!! Us it to tease the great grandkids by having them try to take it apart from the steel.
Magnets have many uses besides hard drives. Just saying.

Re: Swapping Dinette for Dual Work Space

Reply #9 – October 27, 2021, 07:55:45 pm

Quote from: Elliott – October 27, 2021, 10:59:52 am

I'll probably snag another J lounge from MOT if/when the time comes to sell. We're still a couple decades away from retirement so a proper ergonomic work space is a must-have if we want to enjoy the coach for extended periods of time. Gotta DWMYH

Once my magnet gets here I'll map the studs out and report back. I know this is doable because of the wall-mounted table that both Tim and Woody had/have, those aren't light. The trick is going to be making it visually appealing as well.

The 3x5 corian dinette table and wood slide structure originally in mine was easily 80 pounds on a 3 foot arm. I doubt you'll come close to that with a couple led monitors/keyboard trays/swing arms. I say press on, friend. W.

Re: Swapping Dinette for Dual Work Space

Reply #10 – October 27, 2021, 08:26:53 pm

pictures of my dinette, supported by a wall mount

there is a metal support underneath the walnut cover made by David Flanagan's team at Foretravel

Re: Swapping Dinette for Dual Work Space

Reply #11 – May 03, 2022, 05:25:56 pm

Quote from: Tim Fiedler – October 27, 2021, 08:26:53 pm

pictures of my dinette, supported by a wall mount

So we decided to more or less do a table like this, that we can roll our office chairs up to. However, I don't want that large of a support because the table is only 21" wide and we'll end up banging our knees on it.

My magnet test shows there are no metal studs in the slide out to attach to. Does this seem right? My plan is to use the leg pictured below to support one end and attach the other end to the slideout wall. I could use some suggestions on how to attach the one end to the wall, given the lack of steel in there.

Re: Swapping Dinette for Dual Work Space

Reply #12 – May 04, 2022, 02:53:15 am

I can't imagine that there is not metal framing in the slide. Can you see the outside on a cool morning and spot the framing members from the condensation?

Rich

Re: Swapping Dinette for Dual Work Space

Reply #13 – May 04, 2022, 09:34:04 am

Quote from: Rich Bowman – May 04, 2022, 02:53:15 am

I can't imagine that there is not metal framing in the slide.

Me either but my 300lb pull magnet isn't finding any and it has no problem finding the frame in other parts of the coach.

Quote from: Rich Bowman – May 04, 2022, 02:53:15 am

Can you see the outside on a cool morning and spot the framing members from the condensation?

The one time I had those conditions here in northern AZ, I didn't have the foresight to snap a picture

Re: Swapping Dinette for Dual Work Space

Reply #14 – May 04, 2022, 09:34:11 am

There is steel in there. Go outside and check with magnet. I can hang a magnet all over my slide. There is paneling on the inside. I would drill threw paneling and install Rivnuts directly to the steering structure. I use 10/32 all the time with good results. Grade 8 screws. 1/4 -20 would be more available. Threaded bolt, several greased washers and a good nut makes a suitable cheap puller
Scott
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Re: Swapping Dinette for Dual Work Space

Reply #15 – May 04, 2022, 10:22:00 am

I always disliked tapping 1/4-20 threads in steel.
Reason? The web area of a 1/4-20 tap is less than the area of the thread pitches one is trying to cut. So, if you try to attain the per cent of thread that most tap drill charts specify, you will have a much greater chance of torqueing the tap to the point that the tap breaks.
If anything, use a tap drill that will yield 55% of thread form.
Bendix-Besly tap manufacturer (years ago) had a booklet out that explained that if you tap a hole 1-1/2 thread length of the tap diameter in most metals, the fastener will break before the threads in the hole strip.
Another good reason why I tap 1/4-28 instead of 1/4-20. More contact of the thread walls.
Holo-Krome specifies: average tension induced in 1/4-20 screws tightened to yield is 4,450#
average tension induced in 1/4-28 screws tightened to yield is 5,090#
Minimum tensile strength in 1/4-20 threads is 5,750#
Minimum tensile strength in 1/4-28 threads is 6,500#
Of course this data is for Holo-Krome Standard Cap, Flat and Button Heads conforming to ANSI B18.3 specs.
So, if it is easier to tap 1/4-28 thread (using a tap drill that will help yield 55% of thread or even a "bit" more) and have a stronger thread form, why not go for it?? Why use/do a 1/4-20 thread form or use a tap drill trying for 78% of thread form (which most tap drill charts spec, because they want to sell a lot of taps, maybe?)
Maybe enjoy trying to dig out a broken 1/4-20 tap end?

Re: Swapping Dinette for Dual Work Space

Reply #16 – May 04, 2022, 11:08:29 am

Yep no steel on outside. Both ends but no were else. Placed magnets to try and show underlying structure were available.

Re: Swapping Dinette for Dual Work Space

Reply #17 – May 04, 2022, 11:16:42 am

Nighthawk I agree this this is why I recommendation to use rivnits. The hole for a 10/32 is 19/64" much more area and bulbs up on back side. I've never pulled the threads on a steel insert, yet. All the tubing is real thin under .050.

Re: Swapping Dinette for Dual Work Space

Reply #18 – May 04, 2022, 11:30:22 am

I agree with the Rivnuts.
Anytime you can't attain the 1-1/2 x the thread diameter in length engagement the engagement is destined to fail.
I would usually find an alternative, be it a backing plate, Rivnut or multiple smaller diameter thread size fasteners.

Re: Swapping Dinette for Dual Work Space

Reply #19 – May 04, 2022, 12:17:24 pm

Quote from: nitehawk – May 04, 2022, 10:22:00 am

I always disliked tapping 1/4-20 threads in steel. So, if you try to attain the per cent of thread that most tap drill charts specify, you will have a much greater chance of torqueing the tap to the point that the tap breaks. (which most tap drill charts spec, because they want to sell a lot of taps, maybe?)
Maybe enjoy trying to dig out a broken 1/4-20 tap end?

So this has been a game changer for me. Milwaukee 1/4 impactor. Tap sockets. I know this sound crazy but i was taping 10/32 threads into 5/16 steel plate on my slide. That impactor on low wouldn't build enough torque to break tap and with correct cutting fluid was making a single uninterrupted cutting. I was amazed I didn't break one tap. I doubt ill ever use a tap handle again. Yes mutable smaller is always better IMO

Re: Swapping Dinette for Dual Work Space

Reply #20 – May 04, 2022, 10:51:51 pm

Would FT have used aluminum on the outer slide structure to save some weight?

It's definitely the wrong time of year in Az. to see the morning dew marking the frame in the cool early AM right now.

Re: Swapping Dinette for Dual Work Space

Reply #21 – May 05, 2022, 06:07:29 pm

Quote from: bigdog – May 04, 2022, 10:51:51 pm

Would FT have used aluminum on the outer slide structure to save some weight?

Good question, I shot Keith Risch a text to see if he knows. I'm going to pull out a stud finder next week and see if that tells me anything. I have to make a last-minute trip to England tomorrow so everything is getting put on hold for a few days.

The table top is done though and ultra wide computer monitors and telescoping arms are getting delivered tomorrow.

Re: Swapping Dinette for Dual Work Space

Reply #22 – May 05, 2022, 07:41:28 pm

Just run a magnet over the surface. You will know aluminum (doubtful) or steel in a few seconds.

Re: Swapping Dinette for Dual Work Space

Reply #23 – May 05, 2022, 10:58:30 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – May 05, 2022, 07:41:28 pm

Just run a magnet over the surface. You will know aluminum (doubtful) or steel in a few seconds.

See reply #16

Re: Swapping Dinette for Dual Work Space

Reply #24 – May 05, 2022, 11:30:41 pm

Quote from: Elliott – May 05, 2022, 06:07:29 pm

Good question, I shot Keith Risch a text to see if he knows. I'm going to pull out a stud finder next week and see if that tells me anything. I have to make a last-minute trip to England tomorrow so everything is getting put on hold for a few days.

The table top is done though and ultra wide computer monitors and telescoping arms are getting delivered tomorrow.

When you return from blighty. Be sure to place at least a thin cloth between the magnet and the finish.

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