Engine overheating.. after having Radiator re-cored..

Topic: Engine overheating.. after having Radiator re-cored.. (Read 1311 times) previous topic - next topic

Engine overheating.. after having Radiator re-cored..

November 21, 2021, 11:45:11 pm

Hi All...
Had the radiator re-cored 2 years ago and since then the engine runs just a bit warm [ like 5/10 deg, but will hit 210/215 pulling a average hill].
HOWEVER.... If I drop off a good hill and turn the Retarder Full On.. In very short order the engine Water Temp will Hit 230 degs and climbing.. [and yes I keep the RPM's up]
Now ,Have just been living with it but Have ran thru several shops [ FOT and Stewert Stevens [Allison-Longview] being the last]
Replaced the thermostat
Replaced the hyd fan motors.[And Yes they both will go to High Speed]
Replaced the DanFloss & cleaned up corrosion in the electrical connections.
Replaced all Hoses, Cleaned up all the electrical connections I could find..
Manually traced the wiring from Sending units to gauges for both Water Temp and Transmission oil temp. all good.

My Question is this..
Could this be caused by an "Air Bubble" in the engine cooling system, and all that needs to be done is to "Burp It"??
'02 320, ISM450

Re: Engine overheating.. after having Radiator re-cored..

Reply #1 – November 22, 2021, 12:42:46 am

Are your fans going to high speed. You said your water temperature is going up
using the retarder or is it your torque temp that's going up. Using the torque full
out can raise the temperature fast. You said it happened right after they re-cored
your radiator. did they re-cored it with the same amount of fins.

Re: Engine overheating.. after having Radiator re-cored..

Reply #2 – November 22, 2021, 08:04:45 am

It could also be caused by a coolant thermostat that mechanically doesn't open all the way.

An inexpensive item to replace.

Re: Engine overheating.. after having Radiator re-cored..

Reply #3 – November 22, 2021, 08:42:47 am

Just to eliminate a problem,what weight and what oil are you using in your hyd system?

Re: Engine overheating.. after having Radiator re-cored..

Reply #4 – November 22, 2021, 09:54:58 am

If you replace the thermostat make sure that you don't lose the orifice that is/should be hid in the piping. Make sure that the hole in the center is clean. If it isn't there you need to get one as without the orifice you will have cooling issues.

Mike

Re: Engine overheating.. after having Radiator re-cored..

Reply #5 – November 22, 2021, 10:38:04 am

Quote from: John44 – November 22, 2021, 08:42:47 am

Just to eliminate a problem,what weight and what oil are you using in your hyd system?

Transmission uses Transoil
Hyd system Delo 15-40

Re: Engine overheating.. after having Radiator re-cored..

Reply #6 – November 22, 2021, 10:45:13 am

Quote from: oldguy – November 22, 2021, 12:42:46 am

Are your fans going to high speed. You said your water temperature is going up
using the retarder or is it your torque temp that's going up. Using the torque full
out can raise the temperature fast. You said it happened right after they re-cored
your radiator. did they re-cored it with the same amount of fins.

The water temp is climbing

Re: Engine overheating.. after having Radiator re-cored..

Reply #7 – November 22, 2021, 10:52:46 am

Quote from: wolfe10 – November 22, 2021, 08:04:45 am

It could also be caused by a coolant thermostat that mechanically doesn't open all the way.

An inexpensive item to replace.

Changed out thermostats [twice] one by Cummins-Coburg,, one by Peterbilt- Missoula

Re: Engine overheating.. after having Radiator re-cored..

Reply #8 – November 22, 2021, 11:35:13 am

The water temperature going up with the retarder is a strange one as with the retarder
on the engine is not making much heat and the transmission cooler can only transfer
so much heat.

Re: Engine overheating.. after having Radiator re-cored..

Reply #9 – November 22, 2021, 11:37:00 am

With it all starting with rad recore, one only wonders if radiator is somehow now is way too small for the job? Or is water pump not moving enough coolant

With full retard our tranny temp will quickly climb toward 300, but our coolant temps only climb toward 190 or not climb at all. After down hill tranny temps drop quickly. All demonstrating that coolant system is functioning okay.

BTW, our tranny temp sender has been relocated "from tranny IN to tranny OUT" into heat exchanger, so we are reading the tranny hot fluid, not just after being cooled down.

Good luck with this expensive mystery...

Re: Engine overheating.. after having Radiator re-cored..

Reply #10 – November 22, 2021, 01:03:19 pm

I chased an erratic engine temperature for four years. Do you have Silverleaf so you can independently read temperature against the dash gauge? Have you tried shooting infrared temperature at the thermostat housing, at the engine head, at the coolant pipe coming from the thermostat? I had a dash gauge that was not reading correctly. It just about drove me nuts. Perhaps this has all been checked already. I hated driving with one eye always on the temperature gauge. It wore me out.

Re: Engine overheating.. after having Radiator re-cored..

Reply #11 – November 22, 2021, 01:24:59 pm

Quote from: saddlesore – November 22, 2021, 10:52:46 am

Changed out thermostats [twice] one by Cummins-Coburg,, one by Peterbilt- Missoula

So you said that the fans were going into hi but I was never able to show what they were actually producing. As I recall disconnecting the controller plug drivers the fans to hi all the time. If it was me I would disconnect after it is hot and by doing so command hi fan operation verified and see how it cools. My system is modified and I am able to turn fans on hi when ever I desire by the addition of a electric hydraulic shutoff valve. Helps cool down bedroom before shut down a ton. When running down the rode with my personal setup I can turn fans on hi and see a 15 degree reduction in my normal temps on the Engine,Transmission, and retarder.
Scott

Re: Engine overheating.. after having Radiator re-cored..

Reply #12 – November 22, 2021, 02:09:33 pm

On our 8.3 there was one coolant return hose that had a spring inside to prevent collaspeing,you had to remove the old spring as the new hose did not come with the spring,wonder if your engine could be similar.

Re: Engine overheating.. after having Radiator re-cored..

Reply #13 – November 22, 2021, 06:09:59 pm

I would check for the spring, like John44 (Dave) posted.
I remember (in my youth) tracking down an overheating problem in a straight eight engine in a 1954 Buick Roadsmasher with Dyna-ooze transmission.
The spring in the lower hose had broken into several pieces and obstructed/restricted the inflow of the hot coolant.

Re: Engine overheating.. after having Radiator re-cored..

Reply #14 – November 23, 2021, 01:35:56 pm

Stupid thoughts, I know, but is the radiator properly pressurized? The wrong or failed radiator cap could be part of the problem. The bottom radiator hose should have something inside to prevent it from collapsing under vacuum. A quick squeeze with your hand should give you some idea as to where you are.

FWIW the early 20th century Ford "T" used a steel pipe as the bottom radiator hose to prevent a hose from collapsing. No water pump, just thermo-syphon action.

Re: Engine overheating.. after having Radiator re-cored..

Reply #15 – November 23, 2021, 01:46:19 pm

Quote from: Old Toolmaker – November 23, 2021, 01:35:56 pm

FWIW the early 20th century Ford "T" used a steel pipe as the bottom radiator hose to prevent a hose from collapsing. No water pump, just thermo-syphon action.

Actually to simplify hoses and steel was easy to manufacture compared to 1910 rubber construction. No vacuum is produced with the weight of the water. My 1922 touring had a aftermarket water pump when I originally purchased. Removed and returned to thermal siphoning. Being a open system it looses water a lot Good stuff Mine is currently broke. Failed oil pump. Really. Lol
Scott

Re: Engine overheating.. after having Radiator re-cored..

Reply #16 – November 24, 2021, 10:03:28 am

Quote from: dsd – November 23, 2021, 01:46:19 pm

No vacuum is produced with the weight of the water. My 1922 touring had a aftermarket water pump when I originally purchased. Removed and returned to thermal siphoning. Being a open system it looses water a lot
Scott

A surprising amount of vacuum is produced in the bottom hose when the engine is working hard and the percolation of the thermo-syphon is at it's best. Yes, a little water spits in your face going up hill, but I never had to stop and add water along the way and I drove the Allenstown, NH to Stowe, Vt trip three years in a row. In August, up hill both ways.

Having a non-reenforced lower radiator hose is a sneaky way to have an engine that runs too how under load. Especially so with a pressurized cooling system.

Re: Engine overheating.. after having Radiator re-cored..

Reply #17 – November 24, 2021, 12:12:11 pm

Well not to run in on saddlesore BUT... Which of the hoses has a spring on an early 8.3? I replaced my hoses last year and took either a part number or the old hose to ORiely's to get new ones. In a rush and the job running a day longer than I planned I didn't look for a spring on any of the hoses. I suppose I can dig out the old ones I called myself saving and look and if I have it then go under the coach and start squeezing hoses. I haven't had a cooling issue so the normal person would call it good but when one is afflicted with having to be positive about Every last detail, it causes wonder. I do know there is one under there that I don't plan on removing just to satisfy my curiosity because it's a bear.

Re: Engine overheating.. after having Radiator re-cored..

Reply #18 – November 24, 2021, 12:54:23 pm

Quote from: Dub – November 24, 2021, 12:12:11 pm

In a rush and the job running a day longer than I planned

My jobs run weeks longer than I originally plan.
You aren't trying hard enough.

FWIW the molded hose could be ribbed in some way to prevent collapse. Or the internal pressure might be enough to keep the hose open, if the radiator cap is correct and good.

Re: Engine overheating.. after having Radiator re-cored..

Reply #19 – November 24, 2021, 01:09:29 pm

Not trying hard enough? I wouldn't slam a commode lid that hard toolmaker. Jk... In the case of may be molded or ribbed in such a way that would make it Perfect, I can sleep with that. These jobs taking 3 times longer than they should can break a guys concentration especially toward the end. Saddlesore has been thru the ringer with his issue and what I could add for recommendation has already been said. That's a lot of money and time invested to not be finished yet.

Re: Engine overheating.. after having Radiator re-cored..

Reply #20 – November 24, 2021, 01:46:06 pm

I would start will bleeding air . Sometimes you need to break a hose connection at the high points. Sometime the hose has a place where it can trap air. Any high point hose , that has low points on the ends, is suspect .
Next I would look at the hose for collasp as mentioned. Unlikely with these large stiff hoses. IMHO but possible .

Next , pressure test the system , squeeze the hoses. let the pressure off , squeeze the hoses. Look for a soft hose.
Next, pull the hoses off of the radiator and pump water through it , looking for restriction. You may have to use a known good value radiator for reference regarding fluid flow .
Last , try for the part number of the core that was installed.. Look for specs.

Re: Engine overheating.. after having Radiator re-cored..

Reply #21 – November 25, 2021, 05:45:06 pm

Did you change thermostat? Sometimes if it's the radiator, leave the cap off overnight, air works it's way out.

Re: Engine overheating.. after having Radiator re-cored..

Reply #22 – November 25, 2021, 08:46:55 pm

I think I would try changing the water pump it maybe the propellers have deteriorated over the years you have gone over everything else and as far as an air lock i would think that over the time since the rad job air would have work it's way out but I would try a temperature gun and try it on the intake side of the rad and then the out let side of the rad and the engine block if you go to a dealer and get them to hock up to the diagnostics port and monitor the engine temperature. Or go buy a cheap diagnostic tool or invest in to the silver leaf i did works great If you also remove the thermostat and run the engine with no thermostat I would think the engine will not come up to operation temperature with the thermostat out and rad cap off you should see the antifreeze circulating you do have the antifreeze mixed at the right ratio at one time you had to mix antifreeze and water 50/50 when it's running hot do you notice antifreeze coming out of the over flow tank or the tank over filling it may just be a bad gage.

Re: Engine overheating.. after having Radiator re-cored..

Reply #23 – November 25, 2021, 09:55:59 pm

I would think that burping would be unnecessary at this point.
Lots of possibilities have been mentioned. What was it like before you had the radiator re-cored?
As a 5 million mile trucker I presume you've experienced more than a few overheating problems that were successfully resolved.

Re: Engine overheating.. after having Radiator re-cored..

Reply #24 – November 26, 2021, 10:20:14 am

Just a quick note, my son with SOB had an overheating problem for over a year. He had replaced everything he could think of. He got to replacing the water pump thinking bad impeller. He called me and stated he had to use a blanket to lay on the top of the engine it was so hot. I had him check the block heater, it was switched ON. Either one of the dogs or kids had switched it on! I couldn't help my laughter. Felt bad for the expense he went through to find it. No problem since.

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