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Topic: Grand Villa U300 Windshield Movement (Read 955 times) previous topic - next topic

Grand Villa U300 Windshield Movement

I've searched and read most every thread on the board about the front cap movement and windshield movement, but I feel as though I'm missing something.

Under nominal twist situations, my windshield can shift up to two inches out of alignment at the bottom (popping out of the gasket). The shift is always in the same direction - moving outward on the drivers side, and toward the inside on the passenger. The shift has NEVER occurred the other direction.

If on reasonably level ground, I can manipulate the airbags and tilt the coach back and forth to bring it gradually back into alignment (only to drive it and have it pop back out after pulling into a rutted truck stop or similar).

The shifting was previously accompanied by creaking noises of the dash plywood slipping over the inner surface of the front cap. I resolved that by getting things lined up and used West Marine Six10 to re-attach the two. There is now ZERO movement between the dash and the front cap. The windshield shifting reduced slightly, but is still significant.

I understand some movement is expected in this design, but the amount I'm getting can't be normal. I also do not think that a new gasket would do much for the problem (perhaps a very small amount of improvement, but not a real resolution). I'm concerned about using windshield adhesive in the gasket since that may move the stress more into the glass itself causing a bigger issue.

Any additional things to check or ideas?

Thanks!

1994 Grand Villa U300 40' Build: 4396
6V92TA Detroit 350HP
Allison 4 Speed w/jake

Re: Grand Villa U300 Windshield Movement

Reply #1
I've searched and read most every thread on the board about the front cap movement and windshield movement, but I feel as though I'm missing something.

Under nominal twist situations, my windshield can shift up to two inches out of alignment at the bottom (popping out of the gasket). The shift is always in the same direction - moving outward on the drivers side, and toward the inside on the passenger. The shift has NEVER occurred the other direction.

If on reasonably level ground, I can manipulate the airbags and tilt the coach back and forth to bring it gradually back into alignment (only to drive it and have it pop back out after pulling into a rutted truck stop or similar).

The shifting was previously accompanied by creaking noises of the dash plywood slipping over the inner surface of the front cap. I resolved that by getting things lined up and used West Marine Six10 to re-attach the two. There is now ZERO movement between the dash and the front cap. The windshield shifting reduced slightly, but is still significant.
I understand some movement is expected in this design, but the amount I'm getting can't be normal. I also do not think that a new gasket would do much for the problem (perhaps a very small amount of improvement, but not a real resolution). I'm concerned about using windshield adhesive in the gasket since that may move the stress more into the glass itself causing a bigger issue.
Any additional things to check or ideas?
Thanks!
No steel in the front 9 feet other than the suspension is the reason. Our U300's glass moves and I have to push it back into place probably once a year. The front really creaks and groans over uneven ground. Not too much you can do. I'm afraid to glue it as it may break.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Grand Villa U300 Windshield Movement

Reply #2
Thanks Pierce  - about how much movement do you experience? Does it always move the same way for you too? Mine seems to have gotten worse over the past year, then seemed to improve a small amount after re-attaching the dash to the front cap.
1994 Grand Villa U300 40' Build: 4396
6V92TA Detroit 350HP
Allison 4 Speed w/jake

Re: Grand Villa U300 Windshield Movement

Reply #3
Have you verified that the front fiberglass to wood blocks (look up from the two front small "doors") are still a  solid connection.

Particularly if used in areas with a lot of condensation, water condenses on the windshield and runs down into the wood, eventually rotting it.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Grand Villa U300 Windshield Movement

Reply #4
Ours moves too, but has never popped completely out of the frame (at least since we have owned it).  It's the nature of the beast.  I try my darnedest to avoid driving over the typical places that cause the movement.  If I can't avoid it, then I go REAL SLOW, and try to minimize the abuse.  I hate it when our old coach makes the groaning noises...like it is in agony.  :'(

1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Grand Villa U300 Windshield Movement

Reply #5
Thanks Pierce  - about how much movement do you experience? Does it always move the same way for you too? Mine seems to have gotten worse over the past year, then seemed to improve a small amount after re-attaching the dash to the front cap.
For us, it's the driver's side that moves. About an inch, just enough to let air in. Our driveway goes up like a roller coaster with several turns. I do like Chuck says, take it slowly and listen to the terrible noises.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Grand Villa U300 Windshield Movement

Reply #6
Wow!! You guys should have an old coach like our '89.
No creaks. No groans. No shifting windshield(s).
Nothing but pure boredom when going across unlevel terrain.
And our chassis frame was designed by farm equipment designers (John Deere) and built by a firm that built garbage trucks and then military vehicles (Oshkosh Truck).
Couldn't ask for any better.
Nitehawk,  Demolition Lady, & our NEW master, Zippy the speeding BB cat.
1989 Grand Villa 36' ORED
Oshkosh chassis, 8.2 DD V8
2006 Saturn Vue AWD

Re: Grand Villa U300 Windshield Movement

Reply #7
And, another variable may be body width-- 96" vs 102'".  Same torque applied to wider dimension= more movement.

Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Grand Villa U300 Windshield Movement

Reply #8
Wow!! You guys should have an old coach like our '89.
No creaks. No groans. No shifting windshield(s).
Nothing but pure boredom when going across unlevel terrain.
I think the "Ored" has a different sub frame...
The selected media item is not currently available.
Gerry & Brenda
CHARLOTTE HARBOR, FL
1994 Grand Villa - # 4466
U300 Unihome - 6V92 Detroit
4 speed Allison - Jake Brake

Re: Grand Villa U300 Windshield Movement

Reply #9
So.... the question  I have is, what has happened to the front cap that has allowed all that movement?
We had slight movement and a few noticeable squeaks until I reattached the underside of the dash to the front cap fiberglass with a seam of 3M adhesive. No more noticeable movement of the windshield. If the OP has done this too.... what else could be "unattached".? Possibly delamination on the sides below the driver passenger windows?
Justin & Cathy Byrd
1995 U280 "Old Faithful"
36' Build #4673
C8.3 Cummins
Allison MD3060R 6 speed - retarder
Powertech 10KW  4cyl Kubota

Re: Grand Villa U300 Windshield Movement

Reply #10
Have you verified that the front fiberglass to wood blocks (look up from the two front small "doors") are still a  solid connection.

Particularly if used in areas with a lot of condensation, water condenses on the windshield and runs down into the wood, eventually rotting it.

I'll check underneath from the outside again tomorrow, but pretty sure my six10 repair has firmly tied the cap to the blocking and dash. I had a short area of soft wood on one side, but not bad at all compared to some of the photos I've seen in other posts (slightly soft, only two inches wide). I cleaned it up and injected some six10 to firm it up.

After the Six10, I have zero groaning, popping, or the like. Only the sound of the windshield gasket flexing as the glass moves.
1994 Grand Villa U300 40' Build: 4396
6V92TA Detroit 350HP
Allison 4 Speed w/jake

Re: Grand Villa U300 Windshield Movement

Reply #11
So.... the question  I have is, what has happened to the front cap that has allowed all that movement?
We had slight movement and a few noticeable squeaks until I reattached the underside of the dash to the front cap fiberglass with a seam of 3M adhesive. No more noticeable movement of the windshield. If the OP has done this too.... what else could be "unattached".? Possibly delamination on the sides below the driver passenger windows?
Yes, that is what happened to mine. I did the repair myself, I separated the cap where it is joined to the roof by removing the metal strip that covers the joint. I also removed the drivers sider fender, that allowed me to separate the fiberglass from the backing (the glue had already released) so I was able to open the area from the windshield down to the bottom of that panel about 3 to 5 inches.
I applied  coat of adhesive in as far as I could reach with a spatula/putty knife and also spayed 3M adhesive in the rest of the areas.  I then put a 5' x 6' approx.. piece of cardboard against the area to protect the finish and on top of that I placed a 5' x 6' piece of 3/4" plywood, then I put a brace against the whole area to compress the laminate to the backing and allowed it to cure for about a week. This worked for me, I had my windshield reset last May in Lakeland Florida by Richard at Coach Glass and it has held so far. I think the adhesion between the laminate and the backing is a major part in the stability of the windshield. The drivers side of my coach is exposed to the Florida sun most of the winter months. I can see the difference from that side to the passenger side which is in the shade or does not get the direct sunlight/heat for extended periods of time.      ^.^d
The selected media item is not currently available.
Gerry & Brenda
CHARLOTTE HARBOR, FL
1994 Grand Villa - # 4466
U300 Unihome - 6V92 Detroit
4 speed Allison - Jake Brake

Re: Grand Villa U300 Windshield Movement

Reply #12
I've been told that the windshield on our Grand Villas is actually a structural member, so it needs to be properly connected to the rest of the nose. Yes, there needs to be a certain amount of flexibility there, but when the windshield moves that much there is something wrong.

In the summer of 2020 we had to drive up from The Ranch (near Carlsbad, NM) to Riverton, WY. That took us through Colorado, and the windshield suffered for it. I didn't realize that it was that far out until we went through the Blue Beacon in Cheyenne. I got a shower, too! Fortunately I was able to grab some towels and keep most of the water on the outside, but we couldn't leave the windshield that way. The next day we found a shop that promised to reseat the windshield. When we got there they said they didn't work on motorhomes (!), but fixed it anyway - no charge! Last summer we had MOT replace the gasket. MUCH quieter now.

The Foretravel will not visit Colorado again. When we leave here this summer our route will NOT take us through Colorado, even if we head right back to The Ranch.

Re: Grand Villa U300 Windshield Movement

Reply #13
On the corners of the driver and passenger SIDE windows are welded joints. If one or more of these welds has broken that is most likely your cause. Happened to me. They are aluminum frames so welding is tricky.
1994 U280, Build 4490
Deming, NM.

Re: Grand Villa U300 Windshield Movement

Reply #14
It looks like a combination of things could contribute.  The dash well secured to the front cap probably the most important.

 On our drive home to Oregon with our new to us coach I noticed the drivers side cap ( below the side window) was moving around a bit.  So that was one of the first things that I repaired.  The repair was very similar to Gerry's fix only I used Gorrilla foam. Mixed with water it activates and boy is that stuff permanent. Or at least I hope so.

  I also try to avoid twisting the coach or doing it very slowly if unavoidable. 0 window movement so far.....fingers crossed.
Robert and Susan
 1995 36' 280 WTBI 8.3 3060r
 1200 watts on the roof, 720 Ah of lithium's
 Build # 4637. Motorcade # 17599
        FMCA  # 451505
        18  Wrangler JLUR

Re: Grand Villa U300 Windshield Movement

Reply #15
Yes, that is what happened to mine. I did the repair myself, I separated the cap where it is joined to the roof by removing the metal strip that covers the joint. I also removed the drivers sider fender, that allowed me to separate the fiberglass from the backing (the glue had already released) so I was able to open the area from the windshield down to the bottom of that panel about 3 to 5 inches.
I applied  coat of adhesive in as far as I could reach with a spatula/putty knife and also spayed 3M adhesive in the rest of the areas.  I then put a 5' x 6' approx.. piece of cardboard against the area to protect the finish and on top of that I placed a 5' x 6' piece of 3/4" plywood, then I put a brace against the whole area to compress the laminate to the backing and allowed it to cure for about a week. This worked for me, I had my windshield reset last May in Lakeland Florida by Richard at Coach Glass and it has held so far. I think the adhesion between the laminate and the backing is a major part in the stability of the windshield. The drivers side of my coach is exposed to the Florida sun most of the winter months. I can see the difference from that side to the passenger side which is in the shade or does not get the direct sunlight/heat for extended periods of time.      ^.^d

I checked this morning, and I've got significant delamination under the windows down to the wheel wells on both sides. It's not visible, and certainly wasn't this way before we did our year of travel last year. All the use may have contributed to the adhesive giving way and causing the windshield shift to worsen over time. I'm not certain of the repair approach that will be needed yet. I suppose the skin of the cap when properly fastened to the structure underneath yields a significant amount of stiffness.
1994 Grand Villa U300 40' Build: 4396
6V92TA Detroit 350HP
Allison 4 Speed w/jake

Re: Grand Villa U300 Windshield Movement

Reply #16
I've been told that the windshield on our Grand Villas is actually a structural member, so it needs to be properly connected to the rest of the nose. Yes, there needs to be a certain amount of flexibility there, but when the windshield moves that much there is something wrong.

In the summer of 2020 we had to drive up from The Ranch (near Carlsbad, NM) to Riverton, WY. That took us through Colorado, and the windshield suffered for it. I didn't realize that it was that far out until we went through the Blue Beacon in Cheyenne. I got a shower, too! Fortunately I was able to grab some towels and keep most of the water on the outside, but we couldn't leave the windshield that way. The next day we found a shop that promised to reseat the windshield. When we got there they said they didn't work on motorhomes (!), but fixed it anyway - no charge! Last summer we had MOT replace the gasket. MUCH quieter now.

The Foretravel will not visit Colorado again. When we leave here this summer our route will NOT take us through Colorado, even if we head right back to The Ranch.

Our problem is that we LOVE Colorado adventures in our Foretravel  :)
1994 Grand Villa U300 40' Build: 4396
6V92TA Detroit 350HP
Allison 4 Speed w/jake

Re: Grand Villa U300 Windshield Movement

Reply #17
While cars made today rely on the windshield as a structural member, I doubt very much if Foretravel's engineering thought much about making the glass a structural member. A large bird could come through the front cap and get you.

Colorado is great! While our Sierra's are an outstanding mountain chain, they are mostly inside of California and pretty narrow. The Rockies are huge in comparison, extending down just south of Santa Fe, NM to far up in Canada for a total of 3000 miles.

Wish we lived closer as that would be endless exploration. Almost frustrating and as a visitor. You could only see a small portion in a lifetime.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Grand Villa U300 Windshield Movement

Reply #18
Moral of the windshield/Colorado story?
If you are going to drive thru Colorado and other states with really bad roads? Get an ORED chassis Foretravel. >:D  >:D  >:D  >:D  :))
Nitehawk,  Demolition Lady, & our NEW master, Zippy the speeding BB cat.
1989 Grand Villa 36' ORED
Oshkosh chassis, 8.2 DD V8
2006 Saturn Vue AWD

Re: Grand Villa U300 Windshield Movement

Reply #19
I checked this morning, and I've got significant delamination under the windows down to the wheel wells on both sides. It's not visible, and certainly wasn't this way before we did our year of travel last year. All the use may have contributed to the adhesive giving way and causing the windshield shift to worsen over time. I'm not certain of the repair approach that will be needed yet. I suppose the skin of the cap when properly fastened to the structure underneath yields a significant amount of stiffness.
I would say that is the reason for your windshield movement. If you have the time and ability, using the same process that I did will help secure the windshield. The higher up you can get, (between the slide window and the rear cap edge)  when regluing the more secure the cap will be. Also, I added some aluminum angle bracing where the floor meets the side between the headlight and the fender opening. I also added angle where the dash meets the front/nose above both access doors above the windshield wipers. After that was done is when I took it to have the windshield moved back into place at Coach Glass in Lakeland Florida..
The selected media item is not currently available.
Gerry & Brenda
CHARLOTTE HARBOR, FL
1994 Grand Villa - # 4466
U300 Unihome - 6V92 Detroit
4 speed Allison - Jake Brake

Re: Grand Villa U300 Windshield Movement

Reply #20
I would say that is the reason for your windshield movement. If you have the time and ability, using the same process that I did will help secure the windshield. The higher up you can get, (between the slide window and the rear cap edge)  when regluing the more secure the cap will be. Also, I added some aluminum angle bracing where the floor meets the side between the headlight and the fender opening. I also added angle where the dash meets the front/nose above both access doors above the windshield wipers. After that was done is when I took it to have the windshield moved back into place at Coach Glass in Lakeland Florida..
Gary...can you post afew photos of the aluminum bracing on the side of the coach....would like to add similar as I did my dash/nose a few years ago.

Thx

Hans
Hans & Marjet
1995 U300 "Ben" (#4719)
3176B Cat,4060HD,Jake
SKP#139131
Motorcade#17579
2006 Honda Element (towed)

Re: Grand Villa U300 Windshield Movement

Reply #21
+ 1  (What Hans said)

  I have noticed that Foretravel installed a piece of vertical angle iron under the dash.  It would join the sidewall to the firewall IF it was bolted or otherwise attached to the SIDEWALL which it isn't.        It's only bolted to the front firewall.            I think that if / when we have our decals painted on I will go ahead and bolt the sidewall to that angle
Robert and Susan
 1995 36' 280 WTBI 8.3 3060r
 1200 watts on the roof, 720 Ah of lithium's
 Build # 4637. Motorcade # 17599
        FMCA  # 451505
        18  Wrangler JLUR

Re: Grand Villa U300 Windshield Movement

Reply #22
Bringing this post back up since the weather is warmer and I'm ready to attempt a repair.  Starting on the driver's side. This joint looks gnarly and I'm going to clean it up, then get it reattached with some good adhesive. I'm thinking 3m 5200 for permanent fix? Surface prep will be challenging...

Not sure how far I can get the adhesive back in the the area below the window. I am considering some type of mechanical attachment in addition to the adhesive but haven't come up with a solid plan yet.

Any experience share with pictures would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
1994 Grand Villa U300 40' Build: 4396
6V92TA Detroit 350HP
Allison 4 Speed w/jake

Re: Grand Villa U300 Windshield Movement

Reply #23
One idea about a side wall mechanical attachment is to fasten a piece of angle iron flush to the wall to the inside plywood floor (the same the seat is mounted to).

Then through drill the angle and the sidewall along the length of the angle iron (a quantity of 6 x 3/8" stainless carriage bolts along the angle iron approximately 48" in length, properly bedded/sealed).

That flooring is relatively strong because it holds the seat, and is tied to the dash and the floor solidly. This would serve to help take the strain off the bonding adhesive from the floor level down to the fender, though I'm not convinced it would help between the bottom of the driver side window and the floor.

Thoughts?
1994 Grand Villa U300 40' Build: 4396
6V92TA Detroit 350HP
Allison 4 Speed w/jake

Re: Grand Villa U300 Windshield Movement

Reply #24
Start by carefully inspecting the front cap to wood just below dash.  You have a LOT of movement to open up that much seam on the side.

How is windshield fitment?
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020