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Topic: Bulkhead queston (Read 1152 times) previous topic - next topic

Bulkhead queston

I thought there was a post advising what years foretravel were affected with bulkhead issues but I could not locate it.  Can anyone advise which year did foretravel change/ fix the bulkhead issues? I had head 2005 but am not sure
Peter
Peter    Alberta Canada
'98 U320 40'  Build 5359 M11 450 HP, Aqua hot, Blu Ox

Re: Bulkhead queston

Reply #1 –
I have "heard" that when the water tank overflow tube was changed to a auto water shut off when tank is full, "most" of the bulkhead issues ended.  2003?  2002?

Still have to keep wet bay dry from water penetration no matter the year.
Dan - Full timing since 2009
2003 U320 40' Tag 2 slide

Re: Bulkhead queston

Reply #2 –
No Foretravel with the bridge and bulkhead construction is immune from the problem. Don't think the problem has ever ended unless the factory is galvanizing or coating the steel with a primer/paint combination.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Bulkhead queston

Reply #3 –
Hmmm. Interesting. You would have thought the new ih45 and 450's would have a different system.
Peter    Alberta Canada
'98 U320 40'  Build 5359 M11 450 HP, Aqua hot, Blu Ox

Re: Bulkhead queston

Reply #4 –
Quote from: dicksop –
Hmmm. Interesting. You would have thought the new ih45 and 450's would have a different system.
They do.  The new owner's took away the magic.

https://www.spartanrvchassis.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/FORETRAVEL-IH-45.pdf
1992 Foretravel Grand Villa
U225 SBID Build No. 4134
1986 Rockwood Driftwood
1968 S.I.A.T.A. Spring
1962 Studebaker Lark
1986 Honda VF700C
1983 Honda VF750C
Charlie, the Dog was broken out of jail 24 Oct 2023
N1RPN
AA1OH (H)e who must be obeyed.

Re: Bulkhead queston

Reply #5 –
Some years of coaches had the water tank overflow exiting horizontally, backward to expel water into the rear wheel well. Sadly that water would flow downward onto the bulkhead angle iron. Auto cut-off or not, repeated overflow eventually rusts the bulkhead to where it can become tremendously weakened.

For those coaches with this configuration, as in my case, rerouted the overflow tube downward to go down and through the water compartment floor. I did this but not until I had to have the rear bulkhead rebuilt for $$$ coach bucks. Be sure to put some nylon screen, etc over the exit to keep bugs out of the pipe.

Jim

2002 U320 42'
Jim Frerichs
2002 U320 42'

Re: Bulkhead queston

Reply #6 –
I should probably keep my opinion to myself ......... but.......
fresh tank overflow or not.......... really doesn't matter, if you drive on wet roads the bulkhead gets soaked in this area anyway and usually for a much longer period of time. I drive on wet roads far more often than I let the tank overflow. Keep the angle iron to bulkhead area clean and sealed the best you can to prevent water penetration between the two. Move the overflow tube to a different location if you wish but doing this and not sealing the angle to bulkhead makes no sense to me unless you never drive on wet roads.
 
Justin & Cathy Byrd
1995 U280 "Old Faithful"
36' Build #4673
C8.3 Cummins
Allison MD3060R 6 speed - retarder
Powertech 10KW  4cyl Kubota

Re: Bulkhead queston

Reply #7 –
Quote from: FourTravelers –
I should probably keep my opinion to myself ......... but.......
fresh tank overflow or not.......... really doesn't matter, if you drive on wet roads the bulkhead gets soaked in this area anyway and usually for a much longer period of time. I drive on wet roads far more often than I let the tank overflow. Keep the angle iron to bulkhead area clean and sealed the best you can to prevent water penetration between the two. Move the overflow tube to a different location if you wish but doing this and not sealing the angle to bulkhead makes no sense to me unless you never drive on wet roads.

That's my take too our last trip had me traveling in the rain for two days. I looked out the mirror and the tires were throwing water one lane over. I used Penzoil undercoating and keep checking to make sure the bolts and the angle iron are completely covered. I would rather deal with scraping it off the Rolok's to check torque than leave them uncovered.
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: Bulkhead queston

Reply #8 –
Yes, the last step in a bulkhead repair and one that can easily be done proactively is to wire brush the angle, mask off the head (where a wrench or socket would contact the Rolok) and undercoat it with regular automotive undercoat to seal the angle to Rolok junction.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Bulkhead queston

Reply #9 –
Quote
if you drive on wet roads the bulkhead gets soaked in this area anyway and usually for a much longer period of time

I'm with Justin and Crane on this. When driving in the rain the environment in that rear dual area is violent. When I bought my current rig it had had the bulkhead repaired at Xtreme. The job was horrible and there was separation on the driver side. When driving at highway speed in heavy rain, water would actually show up in the wet bay compartment. I was shocked. How could this be? Anyhow, I ran duct tape across the length of the bulkhead joint and whadayaknow - dry as a bone. I had both bulkheads properly repaired at MOT and no more water incursion!
jor

93 225
95 300
97 270
99 320

Re: Bulkhead queston

Reply #10 –
So does the metal bulkhead structure rust from the outside in, or does it rust from the inside out?
Or is it possible for both to happen.
Lots of exposed metal under the coach that is exposed to rainwater that only develop some slight surface rust. Someone smarter than me might have the answer.
Steve & Sandy
2003 U320 4220 WCDS, build#6160
Motorcade #17794
USMC '67-'71

Re: Bulkhead queston

Reply #11 –
Steve,

I have never seen rust damage that compromised the 1/4" angle.

Since most of the discussion is of the rear bulkhead, the box beams just forward of the angle is what rusts.  The Rolok bolts self tap into the box beam.

Can water get in from "outside" through the drilled holes in the angle-- yes.  That is the reason to seal around the Roloks with under coating.

But, the major source for water into the basement structure is from leaks in the wet bay.  I have seen a $.02 gasket on shore water hose into coach do thousands of dollars of damage as it leaked over a long period of time.

Water can get into the basement structure, but not out. Untreated/raw steel box beams exposed to water 24/7................
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Bulkhead queston

Reply #12 –
I've had my 2003 bulkheads inspected five times now, and they always pass muster. The most recent inspection was while at MOT last month. Kieth did the inspections. I asked some questions about his findings and learned the fasteners were doubled with the addition of through bolts and nuts. This was likely gone by or for the previous owner at FOT many years ago. She and this coach were regulars at FOT from 2003 until I bought the coach in 2008.

And I've had the rare water overflow oopsie and do drive in the rain.
Tom Lang K6PG (originally  KC6UEC)
and Diane Lang
2003 38 U295 build 6209
2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Ecodiesel
still have tow-ready 2006 Acura MDX 
Temple City, California
Motorcade 16681 California Chapter President
SKP 16663 member of SKP Park of the Sierra, Coarsegold California
FMCA F071251
Retired electrical and electronic engineer

Re: Bulkhead queston

Reply #13 –
When we looked for a coach, one of the conditions was that it had to be pretty rust free and after viewing the photos they sent and after we purchased it, I was satisfied that it was pretty rust/corrosion free.

After reading some posts back in 2007/8, I decided to do a Rolok test. I had several brake off so I opened up the gap between the big angle iron and the steel sheet/rectangular tubing with a chisel and a single jack. The attached photos show the amount of rust on the back side in just a few inches.

The angle iron can be easily sealed for about 85% of it's length. The problem arises where the vertical members are welded to the angle iron. If the angle is sealed but water allowed to migrate under the vertical pieces, it can travel down and collect behind the angle iron and with no way to drain, cause rust. The attached photos show the rust I got out from a pretty much rust free coach and the areas of concern for possible water/salt/chemical intrusion.

We try not to ever drive in the rain. You can take a new coach with this type of construction and as soon as the coach travels through a puddle of water, the water will start it's work behind the angle iron.. I have not sealed the angle iron for this reason as I like to keep the area open to outside air where it can dry quickly if it's wet.

A possible method of prevention would be to loosen the Roloks over a two foot area at a time and force it apart and use a Sawzall to loosen as much rust as possible and then inject liquid or spray galvanizing up in the separated area until the angle iron has been treated from one side to another. Several other paints or preparations may work as well. 

I took the photo with the arrows today and have not cleaned the underside of the coach since we purchased it back in 2008. It still looks pretty clean now but the backside of the angle iron is hidden, probably best for peace of mind.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Bulkhead queston

Reply #14 –
I feel in order to get to the problem you must ID the problems.
The first problem is the Rolok bolts. They were a poor choice from the factory. I have never trusted the put torque on the bolt head test. I assume that if one fails they will all eventually fail. The Rolok bolts need to be replaced with through bolts that are stainless or plated to repel corrosion.
The other problem is the steel box beams, not an easy fix. I don't think there is a way without a total re-engineering/building of the box beams to isolate them from water. If they can't be replaced with another material they need to be protected with a paint.
If I can't isolate them from water I have to make sure water and air are allowed into that area to help evacuate the moisture.
The last thing I want to do is trap moisture that is in contact with steel.
I remember back in the 60's-70's the popular idea of Ziebart-Rusty Jones. MANY a vehicle that was after market undercoated died a horrible death from water trapped against steel and the rot that it caused to all the metal. Couple that with the lousy steel the Automakers used in the 70's-80's time frame and you have a menu for disaster.
Of course living in the Midwest with our rain/snow/salt cycles does not help the ageing of steel. It does open your eyes to what not to do when it comes to preserving steel.
1995 U320C SE 40'
Jeep 4x4 Commander - Limited - Hemi
"The Pack"  Yogi and Diesel our Airedales -  Charlie our Boxer/Akita mix. Gone but NEVER forgotten Jake our yellow Lab.
NRA Law Enforcement Firearms instructor - Handgun/shotgun
Regional Firearms instructor for national Armored Transp. Co.

Re: Bulkhead queston

Reply #15 –
Lon,

Exactly! And the rust buildup behind the angle iron causes rust jacking that along with hydrogen embrittlement, breaks the Roloks. Usually close to the spray thrown up by the tires and usually greater on the curb side.

For a tiny percent of the color brochures they produce, galvanized steel could have been used along with hot dipped fasteners.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Bulkhead queston

Reply #16 –
Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart –

The angle iron can be easily sealed for about 85% of it's length. The problem arises where the vertical members are welded to the angle iron. If the angle is sealed but water allowed to migrate under the vertical pieces, it can travel down and collect behind the angle iron and with no way to drain, cause rust.

Pierce

Pierce,

So, did you seal the top of the angle to keep water from running down behind it from above?
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Bulkhead queston

Reply #17 –
Not Pierce.... but I sealed only the top side as much as possible, especially in the wheel well area and left the bottom as it was. Aside from that I have left well enough alone.

I'll probably have to do this bulkhead repair job sometime down the road but for now it seems to be ok. Until it's broke, I probably won't fix it. 🤷‍♂️
Justin & Cathy Byrd
1995 U280 "Old Faithful"
36' Build #4673
C8.3 Cummins
Allison MD3060R 6 speed - retarder
Powertech 10KW  4cyl Kubota

Re: Bulkhead queston

Reply #18 –
Quote from: wolfe10 –
Pierce,
So, did you seal the top of the angle to keep water from running down behind it from above?
Brett,

No, the photo with the arrows showing the potential water intrusion areas was from yesterday. I've done nothing but we only venture to the northern states in summer, spending off season in the Owens Valley, the Southwest or Mexico. If we do get stuck driving when it rains, it's rain water, not treated road chemicals mixed with rain.

On a winter visit to Yellowstone and Detroit, we took the RAV4 instead of the coach. I had just put on a new trailer hitch with chrome ball. When we got home, it looked as if I had just bought it from a junk yard.

Here are the partial lyrics for why you never have to worry in California:

"Got on board a westbound 747
Didn't think before deciding what to do
Oh, that talk of opportunities, TV breaks and movies
Rang true, sure rang true
Seems it never rains in southern California
Seems I've often heard that kind of talk before
It never rains in California
But girl, don't they warn ya?
It pours, man, it pours"

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)