No crank

Topic: No crank (Read 868 times) previous topic - next topic

No crank

December 08, 2021, 02:40:16 pm

Pulled in to our new campground just before lunch and stopped for propane. After filling, coach will not crank - with or without boost. Post from Miami 3 weeks ago has been a big help. Starting to trouble shoot.

Key on, Transmission pads looks normal - in neutral. All dash indications appear normal.
Chassis batteries bank reads 12.8. and maintains same when trying to crank. Plan to check the individual batteries next.
Generator will start and run.
Lift pump runs.
I can hear a solenoid click in the rear.
I tried to check the voltage at the starter. The cable on the post is secure but the post itself wiggles around. I can also see the break in the cable insulation near the lug.
I tried to wiggle the post while my wife turned the key. No effect.

I'm off to check the individual batteries.

Any help would be appreciated,

Rich

Re: No crank

Reply #1 – December 08, 2021, 03:05:53 pm

Rich, are you getting 12v at the starter solenoid when key is turned? Is so then maybe starter is toast. If not there may be a circuit breaker for the starter solenoid.

Voltage at start batteries should drop if starter is engaged.

Re: No crank

Reply #2 – December 08, 2021, 03:06:34 pm

If you are hearing the starter solenoid when the key is pressed then one of a number of thinks.

Batteries weak ( Boost should have gotten around that problem)
Loose connections on battery or starter (wire moving on solenoid is not a good think)
bad connections (the wire at the starter does not look good and might be the problem)
Bad starter.

If you have jumper cables you could try putting to the batteries and to the starter's positive connection to see if that will get it started.

Re: No crank

Reply #3 – December 08, 2021, 03:08:24 pm

Roger,

I was getting 12V. No drop when cranked. I have a local shop looking for a starter. Road side service is relatively cheap here. Probably just have them replace it. Need to see if I can find any id info for them.

Rich

Re: No crank

Reply #4 – December 08, 2021, 03:09:33 pm

Roger,

Did you upgrade your starter?

Rich

Re: No crank

Reply #5 – December 08, 2021, 03:14:28 pm

I'd remove the cable from the starter solenoid and shine up that connection first.

Re: No crank

Reply #6 – December 08, 2021, 03:17:04 pm

Quote from: Rich Bowman – December 08, 2021, 03:09:33 pm

Did you upgrade your starter?

Not Roger, but he reported that he upgraded to a gear reduction starter. See post linked below:

What did you do to your coach today IX

Re: No crank

Reply #7 – December 08, 2021, 03:30:23 pm

Quote from: Rich Bowman – December 08, 2021, 02:40:16 pm

The cable on the post is secure but the post itself wiggles around.

Rich,

This statement sure don't sound good. You may have a bad solenoid on the starter. That post shouldn't be loose in the solenoid move slightly yes but wiggle no.

Mike

Re: No crank

Reply #8 – December 08, 2021, 03:51:29 pm

I have cleaned up the connection on the solenoid and checked the individual batteries. No voltage drop when we turn the key. I should have plenty of juice (3 chassis and 3 house batteries). I do plan to have the chassis batteries load tested when I get home before our next trip.

I have a new OEM starter on the way. I cleaned the cable and connection on the starter. Also tried the whack it with a hammer trick. Used that on my VW bus 40 years ago. No joy.

This happened in a pretty benign place and time parked in the entrance to an RV park. I plan to have a new cable made before we leave here next week. I'll also plan to clean up my cable and lug connections.

Rich

Re: No crank

Reply #9 – December 08, 2021, 04:15:59 pm

Are you getting 12 volts at the starter?

Re: No crank

Reply #10 – December 08, 2021, 04:17:16 pm

Does your coach have a second starter solenoid? Some do.

Pierce

Re: No crank

Reply #11 – December 08, 2021, 04:29:44 pm

12V at the starter on the + cable. Not a clue on the second solenoid. The two in the dash look OK. No obvious problems.

Rich

Re: No crank

Reply #12 – December 08, 2021, 04:43:19 pm

Can you see if there is a small wire on the starter ? That would energize the solenoid and make the starter turn .

Re: No crank

Reply #13 – December 08, 2021, 05:09:15 pm

Turn key on, go to back and push the start button. What happens?

While someone is pushing the start button, with volt meter on small terminal on solenoid (maybe a second solenoid since do not see a small wire on the one in the picture) are you getting 12 volts and 12 volts on the big wire terminal? If small wire is not on the solenoid at the starter follow that wire back and you should have another solenoid that has a small wire on it. When pressing the start button you should have 12 volts on all 3 posts.

Re: No crank

Reply #14 – December 08, 2021, 05:47:46 pm

As Turojack said I can't see the small wire on the solenoid, which has to be there
for the solenoid to work. When you turn the key you still have 12.8 volts so it isn't
a battery problem. When you had your hand on the cable you should have felt the
solenoid click in. If you put your voltmeter on the other post opposite the post with
the cable on it and have have someone turn the key to try and start it. If you get
voltage, the starter is gone and if you don't get voltage the solenoid is not making
a good contact.

Re: No crank

Reply #15 – December 08, 2021, 05:51:31 pm

If you have a sacrificial screwdriver jump from the positive side of the solenoid to the big wire on the starter itself. If it the starter motor spins it is the solenoid not the starter.

Re: No crank

Reply #16 – December 08, 2021, 06:20:43 pm

This "Starter Sequence" diagram is based on our coach and has been a big help in diagnosing starting problems by showing where the 'break' in the sequence is.

Temp activation of Aux Start solenoid will bypass a lot of potential problem areas.

Re: No crank

Reply #17 – December 08, 2021, 07:02:15 pm

Rich, we had the same problem with our ih-45. Problem was that one slide's limit switch was not indicating that that slide was fully retracted. On our coach all slides have to be fully retracted to allow engine start. Running the slides out then in may resolve the issue at least temporarily. Good luck.

Re: No crank

Reply #18 – December 08, 2021, 10:21:21 pm

New starter/solenoid unit installed and problem solved. I'm sure it was the bad lug on the starter solenoid.

I still need to procure new positive and negative cables for the starter. The positive has insulation failure due to being routed too close to the exhaust manifold with no heat shielding. You can see it in the picture in my first post.

The negative is too short due to a new ground lug position on the new starter. We needed a cable stretcher to get it connected so we could make it to our campsite this evening. I'll also cleanup as many connection contact surfaces as I can while replacing them.

Thanks for everyone's help. This group is awesome!

Rich

Re: No crank

Reply #19 – December 09, 2021, 07:47:47 am

Quote from: JimO – December 08, 2021, 07:02:15 pm

Rich, we had the same problem with our ih-45. Problem was that one slide's limit switch was not indicating that that slide was fully retracted. On our coach all slides have to be fully retracted to allow engine start. Running the slides out then in may resolve the issue at least temporarily. Good luck.

Are you able to start with the slides out? In my coach I have started the engine with the slides in or out. I have never tried with one part way open so do not know if it will let me do that.

Re: No crank

Reply #20 – December 09, 2021, 08:44:16 am

I think I can start with the slides out. I don't remember not being able to. After I replace the cables, I will be doing a test. I'll try to start and let you know. I think on ours, you just can't go into gear with the slide out unless you use the override switch.

Rich

Re: No crank

Reply #21 – December 09, 2021, 09:55:52 am

Quote from: Rich Bowman – December 09, 2021, 08:44:16 am

I think I can start with the slides out. I don't remember not being able to. After I replace the cables, I will be doing a test. I'll try to start and let you know. I think on ours, you just can't go into gear with the slide out unless you use the override switch.

Rich

True, I can start my engine fine with slides in or out. I cannot go into gear with the slides out.

Re: No crank

Reply #22 – December 09, 2021, 03:37:12 pm

Unless you use the override switch .

Re: No crank

Reply #23 – December 12, 2021, 10:50:03 pm

New cables and terminal posts that the battery feeds are installed. Cleaned up all the contact surfaces. I had planned to do that after this trip anyway.

Thanks again for all the help.

Rich

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