Not winterizing in winter

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Not winterizing in winter

December 09, 2021, 04:40:19 pm

The weather looks like low-mid 20's and lower at night for the foreseeable future and it's got me thinking about the coach. I have not winterized it because we'll using it off and on all winter. I currently have it plugged in to 30amp next to the house, both AH switches are on (electric and diesel), and I have the bathroom and wet bay set to 40 degrees. Bedroom and living room thermostats off. I think the electric should be enough to run the AH this way and the diesel is just on as a backup.

My question is, what happens to the fluid in the lines that feed the bedroom/living room. Does it drain back into the AH unit when not in use? I guess what I'm asking is do I need to worry about anything freezing in those rooms?

Re: Not winterizing in winter

Reply #1 – December 09, 2021, 04:47:23 pm

Quote from: Elliott – December 09, 2021, 04:40:19 pm

The weather looks like low-mid 20's and lower at night for the foreseeable future and it's got me thinking about the coach. I have not winterized it because we'll using it off and on all winter. I currently have it plugged in to 30amp next to the house, both AH switches are on (electric and diesel), and I have the bathroom and wet bay set to 40 degrees. Bedroom and living room thermostats off. I think the electric should be enough to run the AH this way and the diesel is just on as a backup.

My question is, what happens to the fluid in the lines that feed the bedroom/living room. Does it drain back into the AH unit when not in use? I guess what I'm asking is do I need to worry about anything freezing in those rooms?

The electric won't be enough to keep the interior warm enough and so you will be using some diesel. I would keep the bedroom door closed but heat the living room/kitchen area as well as the bathroom. You don't want lines in the kitchen area to freeze.

Another option which I have used before fully winterizing with antifreeze would be to drain the lines and blow compressed air through them, while keeping the electric element in the Aqua-Hot on to protect any water that might remain in the coils.

Re: Not winterizing in winter

Reply #2 – December 09, 2021, 04:49:03 pm

The fluid in the lines is protected from freezing by the anti freeze or boiler fluid installed. It shouldn't be a issue. Potable water is a different story.
Scott

Re: Not winterizing in winter

Reply #3 – December 09, 2021, 04:57:57 pm

To be clear, you are interested in keeping potable lines from freezing, NOT keeping the interior habitable?

Re: Not winterizing in winter

Reply #4 – December 09, 2021, 05:00:02 pm

Thanks guys.

Quote from: wolfe10 – December 09, 2021, 04:57:57 pm

To be clear, you are interested in keeping potable lines from freezing, NOT keeping the interior habitable?

Correct. It's just going to be sitting out in the driveway unused for the next week or two.

Re: Not winterizing in winter

Reply #5 – December 09, 2021, 05:10:00 pm

The AH on 30 amp electric alone should be enough to heat the wet bay to 40°. The bathroom does not have to be on for the the wet bay to be on, just the thermostat in the wet bay set to 40°. There is no "off" on the wet bay thermostat. If you winterize your coach add a disconnect or an off switch in the correct wire to the thermostat so that it can not run.

Adding the diesel on gives you some protection against a 120v power outage but then when you completely discharge your batteries you are going to have problems including perhaps replacing your batteries.

If you are going to do what your plan is, add temperature monitoring in the wet bay (both ends), battery bay, kitchen, and bathroom and check them and the coach once a day.

Winterizing takes an hour or so and uses $20 worth of pink stuff. Flushing it all out takes another hour. Be very careful.

Re: Not winterizing in winter

Reply #6 – December 09, 2021, 05:13:41 pm

Quote from: D.J. Osborn – December 09, 2021, 04:47:23 pm

The electric won't be enough to keep the interior warm enough and so you will be using some diesel. I would keep the bedroom door closed but heat the living room/kitchen area as well as the bathroom. You don't want lines in the kitchen area to freeze.

Another option which I have used before fully winterizing with antifreeze would be to drain the lines and blow compressed air through them, while keeping the electric element in the Aqua-Hot on to protect any water that might remain in the coils.

Have there ever been any issues of anyone losing the electic element in the aqua hot?...just thinking if one were to not winterize, blow the lines out, then the element go out the coils around the AH might be in jeopardy. Guessing would probably be a safer bet to keep the electric AND diesel on for such.

Re: Not winterizing in winter

Reply #7 – December 09, 2021, 05:22:41 pm

When it comes to freezing temps don't fool around. The cost of pipes freezing is something you don't want to deal with.
I would back up any system to be safe.
I used small (250Watt) heaters (set to about 45 degrees)in several areas of the water bays as a back-up to the propane powered Primus heating system installed in my coach.
I also have a couple larger electric heaters inside set on low, just in case.
Don't forget the outside faucet.

Re: Not winterizing in winter

Reply #8 – December 09, 2021, 05:45:43 pm

I use my coach during the winter so when I'm not using it and it is going to freeze,
I turn the Aqua-hot on electric and I have the wet bay on about 40 degrees and
the bathroom thermostat on at 40 degrees. I keep the bathroom doors closed and
I have an electric heater going in the main room. The termostat for the main room
and bedroom is off. I also check on the coach every day that is freezing. I also have
the the windshield insulated with reflective bubble insulation and all the blinds down
as they help keep it warm. I also have put extra insulation in front of the wet bay doors.

Re: Not winterizing in winter

Reply #9 – December 10, 2021, 10:08:03 am

Last winter was my first winter with my coach. I did not winterize it. Luckily I came through with out any broken pipes. I did look under the kitchen sink and found the bottom of the blue water filter had frozen and the bottom dropped off. I was able to replace it without any problems. THIS year I winterized it. Since it is such a large coach I opted to pay an RV garage to do it for me the correct way. I looked at it like an investment. If we have a warm winter here in Missouri great, but like last year if we again have an unpredicted artic blast come our way it's protected. I'll keep electric heaters working inside when it gets frosty, I was very lucky last year. I'll never take that chance again, to me it's just not worth the chance of damaging 1987 era water pipes. What I paid to have it winterized is nothing compared to what it would cost to replace broken water pipes and the accompanying damage it would cause. I'm not pointing fingers or judging anyone. Everyone's situation is different. Just sharing my situation.

Re: Not winterizing in winter

Reply #10 – December 10, 2021, 10:20:41 am

First--Our coach is 32 years old.
Second: we store it for the winter up here in Wisconsin.
Third: Temps up here can get down to -20 F--often.
Fourth: We don't have electric or heat in the storage space we rent 30 miles away.
Fifth: We look at winterizing a bit different up here in Northern Wisconsin.

Like this: $$ for winterizing antifreeze + time eliminating water and things that WILL freeze vs $$$ it would cost to repair any freeze damage. We vote for winterizing. It has always been cheaper.

Re: Not winterizing in winter

Reply #11 – December 10, 2021, 10:26:45 am

Blowing the lines out with compressed air does not entirely get all of the wither out of the AH coils.

We winterize in October even is we are leaving in late November. We have a 2 gal jug for the toilet and several 1-gallon jugs for drinking water. Usually, two days heading south and it is warm enough to un-winterize.

Better safe than sorry. Frozen lines are an expensive mistake.

Re: Not winterizing in winter

Reply #12 – December 15, 2021, 12:15:39 pm

Alright so it got down to 20 degrees last night with a mix of snow and freezing rain. I had wireless temperature monitors placed in the living room, passenger side wet bay (where manibloc is) and driver's side wet bay. Bathroom doors closed, with thermostat set to somewhere between 40-50. Living room thermostat set at 40 degrees.

Lowest temps throughout the night were:

Living room: 37 degrees. Sensor was on other side of room near window, which I think explains why it read a little colder than thermostat on the wall which read 41 degrees at the same time.

Passenger wet bay: 53 degrees

Drivers side wet bay: 33 degrees. The little flap on the floor for the power cord was open and is the reason we got close here. Will be cutting a "plug" for that hole today so no air gets in around the cord.

I was up at 1am and checked on the coach, and at that point the AH hadn't used the diesel side of things yet but at some point in the wee hours it kicked on as evidenced by the lack of snow/ice around the exhaust.

Just adding this as context for anyone else considering doing the same thing. At 20 degrees it seems you're pretty dependent on the diesel side of the AH to keep the living room warm. I'm going to move a thermostatic electric heater in there as a fallback. Need to test it with the AH electric on first though to make sure we don't pop any breakers.

Re: Not winterizing in winter

Reply #13 – December 15, 2021, 12:28:23 pm

Quote from: Elliott – December 15, 2021, 12:15:39 pm

The little flap on the floor for the power cord was open and is the reason we got close here. Will be cutting a "plug" for that hole today so no air gets in around the cord.[/li][/list]

That "little flap on the floor for the power cord" is an easy way for critters to find their way into your motorhome. The "plug" is a good start, but it's also a good idea to get a roll of steel wool to stuff into any openings that aren't perfectly sealed. We also use "Fresh Cab" rodent repellent in the upstairs and basement areas. It smells good and helps keep the critters away.

Re: Not winterizing in winter

Reply #14 – December 15, 2021, 12:31:50 pm

Quote from: D.J. Osborn – December 15, 2021, 12:28:23 pm

The "plug" is a good start, but it's also a good idea to get a roll of steel wool to stuff into any openings that aren't perfectly sealed.

Thanks, good call out. I actually did a walk around a couple weeks ago plugging up holes in the coach for that very reason and completely overlooked the flap for some reason. Hopefully it's not too late

Re: Not winterizing in winter

Reply #15 – December 15, 2021, 02:12:54 pm

Several of us here on the Forum have made removable plugs for that little flap opening. The only time on my coach that this opening is not closed by either the door or the plug is during the few minutes that I am actually dumping the tanks.

Richard

Re: Not winterizing in winter

Reply #16 – December 15, 2021, 02:47:42 pm

Brass wool works better and doesn't rust.

Re: Not winterizing in winter

Reply #17 – December 15, 2021, 05:44:35 pm

@Elliott What remote heaters do you have? You check them on your phone or is there a separate device it reports to?

Also, if one were to open valves, open faucets and drain water, how would this freeze pipes? Pipes break/burst due to water that expands. If the water has a place to expand, it should not burst.

Re: Not winterizing in winter

Reply #18 – December 15, 2021, 06:15:19 pm

Quote from: Jason – December 15, 2021, 05:44:35 pm

@Elliott What remote heaters do you have? You check them on your phone or is there a separate device it reports to?

I'm monitoring the temps with these: Amazon.com: ORIA Indoor Outdoor Thermometer with 3 Wireless Sensors, Digital...

Quote from: Jason – December 15, 2021, 05:44:35 pm

Also, if one were to open valves, open faucets and drain water, how would this freeze pipes? Pipes break/burst due to water that expands. If the water has a place to expand, it should not burst.

Unfortunately it doesn't work that way but someone with more worldly knowledge than myself will have to explain the physics behind it. Surely something to do with the uneven distribution of heat and water as well as gravity.

That said, pex seems to be surprisingly resilient. I've seen a couple of SOBs freeze and be ok afterwards. One needed a few pex clamps redone at the manifold and the other survived unscathed.

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: Not winterizing in winter

Reply #19 – December 15, 2021, 06:50:30 pm

If you have aqua hot your worried about the 30 or so coils the wrap around the burner. Would be impossible to blow all the water out with air. It then settles in the bottom, freezes and bursts the copper coil. Per Rudy 10k to repair

Re: Not winterizing in winter

Reply #20 – December 15, 2021, 07:40:24 pm

Quote from: Jan & Richard – December 15, 2021, 02:12:54 pm

Several of us here on the Forum have made removable plugs for that little flap opening. The only time on my coach that this opening is not closed by either the door or the plug is during the few minutes that I am actually dumping the tanks.

Richard

No one said it had to be pretty. Was low on time and high in need so function beats out form this time.

Re: Not winterizing in winter

Reply #21 – December 17, 2021, 11:50:08 am

So interestingly, the night after I put the "plug" in, I still recorded 33 degrees in that bay. No bueno. So yesterday morning I filled the fresh water tank up so it could build some heat mass throughout the day, and then put 1" foam board between the bay door and the rest of the bay. Clocked in a 38 degrees, much better.

The low was 20-21* each night. This makes me think that without the foam insulation there, we probably need to start worrying about the faucet plumbing in that bay in the mid-upper teens. I'm going to start carrying the foam around during winter months and figure that's probably good into high single digits.

Re: Not winterizing in winter

Reply #22 – December 17, 2021, 01:38:09 pm

Sounds like you have made progress. It could just be the angle of your picture, but is there a gap between the foam and the door when closed?

Re: Not winterizing in winter

Reply #23 – December 17, 2021, 01:41:14 pm

Here's my very cheap solution. 1 1/2" foam that slips in where the door goes. One corner notched for the cord. Adding pipe insulation to the edges like you used would be even better.

Re: Not winterizing in winter

Reply #24 – December 17, 2021, 02:04:57 pm

Quote from: Dave Larsen – December 17, 2021, 01:38:09 pm

Sounds like you have made progress. It could just be the angle of your picture, but is there a gap between the donkey dick and the door when closed?

No, you're right. There was a very small gap there when closed. The foam board I put in smooshes the foam in your picture and seals it completely. The way to do this is definitely seal it from the bottom like like Richard did, less obstacles to contend with.

I didn't even bother getting my jigsaw out since I was in a hurry. I already had a Forster bit in the drill press so I just butchered it with that.

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