Prosine 2 failure ...need temporary battery charger for 2 gels

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Prosine 2 failure ...need temporary battery charger for 2 gels

January 03, 2022, 08:19:33 am

Last night our 21 year old Prosine 2.0 failed. Our house 2 gel house batteries are down to 12.3 Volts. While we wait for repairs I'd like to save my gel batteries. What type of battery charger would work to temporarily keep the gels charged while a new inverter/charger is found? FYI: We just arrived in the Texas Rio Grande valley a few days ago. Our RV refrigerator was recently replaced by a Magic Chef 10 cu ft AC refrigerator that specifically states it is not for RV use and not to be run off an inverter. They might mean it needs pure sine waves to operate.
What are my best options for an inverter/charger? Magnum, Xantrex, or others?
Service in the RGV is spotty at best and I am not up to the replacement myself.

Thanks
Bob

Re: Prosine 2 failure ...need temporary battery charger for 2 gels

Reply #1 – January 03, 2022, 08:24:56 am

Assuming you are on shore power, the refrigerator should be fine. If the "pass through" feature of the old inverter/charger still works, you don't need to do anything,

If it doesn't, use an extension cord and plug the refrigerator directly into it.

ANY battery charger will work, as long as you monitor voltage. Even with a "not-smart" charger, if you disconnect it/turn it off when your gel batteries reach full charge (where your smart charger would revert to "float level", you will be fine. In terms of amps needed, that depends on whether you are using 12 VDC in the coach. Just to maintain battery status, even a 15 amp charger is plenty. Walmart, any auto parts house, etc will have a charger. Sure, a smart one is better, and would mean you don't have to monitor voltage.

Re: Prosine 2 failure ...need temporary battery charger for 2 gels

Reply #2 – January 03, 2022, 08:28:40 am

Bob, My choice in inverter brands is Magnum or Vectron.

Re: Prosine 2 failure ...need temporary battery charger for 2 gels

Reply #3 – January 03, 2022, 08:52:49 am

Lived near that area for many years,search again many RV shops and places to get a inverter put in.

Re: Prosine 2 failure ...need temporary battery charger for 2 gels

Reply #4 – January 03, 2022, 09:28:30 am

Quote from: BobW – January 03, 2022, 08:19:33 am

Our RV refrigerator was recently replaced by a Magic Chef 10 cu ft AC refrigerator that specifically states it is not for RV use and not to be run off an inverter. They might mean it needs pure sine waves to operate.

I'd never heard about fridge makers who stated that specific prohibition, so I Googled your fridge and found it for sale at Home Depot (I assume the same or similar model). Looked at the online Installation Guide and sure enough, it clearly states in two places that it should NOT be powered by inverter. The wording makes no allowance for a "pure sine" inverter. That's interesting.

As I understand it, a quality pure sine wave inverter outputs clean AC power that is indistinguishable from grid power. We have been running our Samsung fridge every day on shore power or (pure sine) inverter, whichever is appropriate, for about 7 years. It is still working fine. We have a Magnum MS2812 inverter.

Magic Chef must be aware that many of these smaller units end up in RVs. Perhaps this is just another CYA move to limit costly warranty claims?

Re: Prosine 2 failure ...need temporary battery charger for 2 gels

Reply #5 – January 03, 2022, 09:31:17 am

Ya, from a power standpoint, I would not have a problem with a residential refrigerator on a PSW Inverter.

MSW-- some OK, others not.

Re: Prosine 2 failure ...need temporary battery charger for 2 gels

Reply #6 – January 03, 2022, 10:03:00 am

I went back and looked up the paperwork manuals that came with our Samsung RF197 (purchased 8/2014) and found no mention whatsoever about powering it with a inverter. That particular model was, at that time, one of the most popular residential units being installed in motorhomes, so it was no secret to Samsung how some of them were being used.

Interestingly, at that time Samsung was touting the superiority of their BLDC (brushless direct current) Digital Inverter Compressors. I believe our RF197 has this type compressor. It may be that since the AC power supply to the fridge is run through a internal inverter, the source/quality of that AC power is not as critical? I don't know - that technical stuff is over my head...

Perhaps the Magic Chef in Bob's coach does not use a inverter compressor. A conventional single-speed induction motor compressor may be more sensitive to the quality of supplied AC power?

See link below for Samsung marketing blub published in 2015:

How the Digital Inverter Compressor Has Transformed the Modern Refrigerator...

Re: Prosine 2 failure ...need temporary battery charger for 2 gels

Reply #7 – January 03, 2022, 10:12:41 am

Since were talking about refrigerators,would love to hear the story behind why the Magic Chef was put in to begin with!!!!!

Re: Prosine 2 failure ...need temporary battery charger for 2 gels

Reply #8 – January 03, 2022, 10:24:49 am

Quote from: John44 – January 03, 2022, 10:12:41 am

Since were talking about refrigerators,would love to hear the story behind why the Magic Chef was put in to begin with!!!!!

X2 I also wonder.

AND - Sorry about getting off-track with the fridge comments, but I felt the OP's original question was completely answered by Brett in Reply #1. I just felt the Magic Chef "inverter prohibition" was kinda interesting, so my mind wandered off on a tangent.

Re: Prosine 2 failure ...need temporary battery charger for 2 gels

Reply #9 – January 03, 2022, 10:27:34 am

Any inverter will work. A Victron Multiplus is a great choice, less money than a Magnum, a five year warranty and more built-in functions like a small start battery charge function.
Victron Energy MultiPlus 3000VA Pure Sine Inverter/Charger

In the meantime consider a smart charger for a more universal fit. A 20-40 amp Sterling charger will charge both the house and start batteries and will go into sleep mode when batteries are charged and wake up to check on them. If you are plugged in these are usually sufficient to maintain charge without using the bigger charger/inverter.
Sterling ProCharge Ultra Battery Charger

And there is a forum discount at Bay Marine.

Re: Prosine 2 failure ...need temporary battery charger for 2 gels

Reply #10 – January 03, 2022, 11:18:21 am

My recent search for a Magnum inverter/charger disclosed that they have backordered for many months and could not find any in the marketplace I searched.

I settled on a brand I was not familiar with: Samlex EVO-2212. It is full of features fit in the space of the OEM Freedom ceiling hanger, but not for the uninformed as it does not have preset battery type profiles. We can change many more settings than any other brand I have ever seen. Very flexible. And has a good inside monitor (EVO-RC-PLUS) that is required to make the needed changes.

Re: Prosine 2 failure ...need temporary battery charger for 2 gels

Reply #11 – January 03, 2022, 11:43:35 am

PowerMax 110 Volts AC to 12 Volts DC 60 AMP PM3-60 RV Converter | eBay
I installed one of these a fewmonths ago . Works well.

EDECOA 2500W 5000 Watt Power Inverter Pure Sine Wave 12V dc to 120V ac LCD... I have used 2 of this brand. 2000 and this 3000. Work well and seems to have a low tax rate on the power used.
The 3000 will run my mini split AC and the 2000 has run my fridge for the last 3 years . All trouble free.

These 2 items are replaced by the above units on the newer buses. MY 88 ORED has had separate inverter and battery charger. I dont think that it had any type of inverter from the factory.

400W Heavy Duty Smart Car Battery Charger Automatic Pulse Repair Trickle... My shop battery maintainer. Smart charger, does everything.

Ever since I bought the 2000 watt PSW inverter , I have bought all China built electronics. I blew up my old welder and tried to replace it with a domestic , inverter style welder and they were all built in China and cost 3 times what the Chinese brands were. I hate to do it but we dont make quality electronics for a reasonable price anymore.

Now I go to E bay and search for item with reviews and good sale numbers. Never had an issue and I dont feel like I got taken advantage of.

Re: Prosine 2 failure ...need temporary battery charger for 2 gels

Reply #12 – January 03, 2022, 01:37:58 pm

I have the BatteryMinder 128CEC1: 12V 2/4/8 battery charger on my 3 gel start batteries all winter. The temps here in Alberta Canada have been as low as -29f and the charger has been great. No problems. I especially like the multiple battery feature And the temperature compensation mode that is included in the charger

Re: Prosine 2 failure ...need temporary battery charger for 2 gels

Reply #13 – January 03, 2022, 05:12:17 pm

Here is another smart Victron 30 amp charger with BT connectivity.

Victron Energy Blue Smart IP22 Chargers

Re: Prosine 2 failure ...need temporary battery charger for 2 gels

Reply #14 – January 03, 2022, 05:18:56 pm

Quote from: Roger & Susan in Home2 – January 03, 2022, 05:12:17 pm

Here is another smart Victron 30 amp charger with BT connectivity.

Victron Energy Blue Smart IP22 Chargers

An excellent charger, but $$$ for a "work until we get there" choice.

Re: Prosine 2 failure ...need temporary battery charger for 2 gels

Reply #15 – January 03, 2022, 05:33:54 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – January 03, 2022, 05:18:56 pm

An excellent charger, but $$$ for a "work until we get there" choice.

Maybe but sometimes a longer view is worth considering. This or the Sterling can charge your batteries under most circumstances while you are using the coach even if your inverter/charger is off. In a situation with limited power this will do the job and you can leave the inverter/charger off. Even with a new inverter/charger a quality backup is a sound investment in my opinion.

Many times the cheapest way comes back to haunt you later on.

Re: Prosine 2 failure ...need temporary battery charger for 2 gels

Reply #16 – January 05, 2022, 04:08:40 pm

Addressing John44's question why was the Magic Chef put in: Absorption refrigerator #2 failed after 13 years and two weeks prior to our leaving for the Texas Rio Grande Valley. Reliable RV dealers are few and far between and 1-2 hours from our home. I did not realistically think they could accommodate me. With my neighbor volunteering to help I elected to replace the absorption refrigerator with a residential one. The local Lowe's had two that might fit but had low customer reviews. The closest Home Depot had the Magic Chef and promised delivery as soon as the next day. HA! It took 10 days to get it. I watched three Youtube videos that installed the same Magic Chef and contacted one guy who said his was running fine. The installation was tight because our L-shade kitchen has a counter top directly in front of the refrigerator. The hinges had to be switched from right to left. There was little margin with the refrigerator sitting in front of its location (just before we lifted it and pushed it back). See picture taken looking toward the front of the motorhome. The next picture is post installation. We made it 1300 miles to the RGV and it is running fine. See pic.
Following up on the good advise received here, after the failure of my 21 year Prosine 2.0 inverter, I bought a Schumacher smart charger and brought the battery voltage up from 12.2 to 13.4 volts. BUT, the charger indicated that the batteries were bad. Without the charger the voltage drops back to 12.2. Local RV shops here in the RGV say the GEL or AGM are back ordered. I'd consider lithium batteries, but based on their price and our expected usage, I ruled that out. FYI: Magnum inverters are also back ordered. I found Border Engine Rebuilders and Diesel Services of Mission, TX. They have gotten into RV services a few years ago. In the spirt of "any port in the storm", I had them order what was available: a Xantrex Freedom XC 2000 watt interver/charger and 2-8D flooded batteries. They anticipate being able to install it next week.

Re: Prosine 2 failure ...need temporary battery charger for 2 gels

Reply #17 – January 05, 2022, 09:23:49 pm

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – January 03, 2022, 09:28:30 am

I'd never heard about fridge makers who stated that specific prohibition, so I Googled your fridge and found it for sale at Home Depot (I assume the same or similar model). Looked at the online Installation Guide and sure enough, it clearly states in two places that it should NOT be powered by inverter. The wording makes no allowance for a "pure sine" inverter. That's interesting.

As I understand it, a quality pure sine wave inverter outputs clean AC power that is indistinguishable from grid power. We have been running our Samsung fridge every day on shore power or (pure sine) inverter, whichever is appropriate, for about 7 years. It is still working fine. We have a Magnum MS2812 inverter.

Magic Chef must be aware that many of these smaller units end up in RVs. Perhaps this is just another CYA move to limit costly warranty claims?

We installed this fridge last year. It has been plugged into the inverter without issue since then. It is a separate Victron 1200 pure sine inverter.

Re: Prosine 2 failure ...need temporary battery charger for 2 gels

Reply #18 – January 06, 2022, 05:57:51 am

Quote from: BobW – January 05, 2022, 04:08:40 pm

I bought a Schumacher smart charger and brought the battery voltage up from 12.2 to 13.4 volts. BUT, the charger indicated that the batteries were bad. Without the charger the voltage drops back to 12.2.

That's what is supposed to happen.
Lead-Acid battery chemistry can be termed "sluggish." After charging, lead-acid batteries need to rest a minimum of 3 hours* before you can take a reliable voltage reading. 24 hours if you want a final figure.

*There are three chemical reactions occurring inside a lead-acid battery, and the third takes time to complete once the charging voltage is removed. The voltage reading you take while this is still going on doesn't represent the real state of charge.

Re: Prosine 2 failure ...need temporary battery charger for 2 gels

Reply #19 – January 06, 2022, 10:05:54 am

Rural King has Standard 8D batteries for $150. 1000CCA . works fine for me. They replaced a pair that failed due to the charger fail, no questions at 13 months.

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