Allison snake eyes

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Allison snake eyes

January 31, 2022, 09:37:47 pm

Question. Mel and Diane who just left Q are at the border to come down to San Carlos to meet us and just called to say he has been having an issue with the shift pad in that he gets ibtermitten snake eyes but the coach jeeps going with no issues. They clear after a short time but has no idea what could be going on So I ask for ideas hoping they make it and we can help when here. Is there a service shop in Tucson.
Thx
Johnh

Re: Allison snake eyes

Reply #1 – January 31, 2022, 10:14:58 pm

They are driving on borrowed time. Have them pull the codes from the Allison brain box. If they get code 69-32 the ECU is dying and they risk getting stuck with a no start situation (usually at the worst time).

https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?media/item/allison-error-codes-and-shift-selector-operation.942/

See link below for our story:

No start, with Allison "snake eyes" (Problem Solved)

Or, if time is a factor, go straight to the trouble shooting steps at the website linked below.

Transmission Instruments

Re: Allison snake eyes

Reply #2 – January 31, 2022, 10:46:24 pm

John,

There are major Allison shops in Mexico that offer everything from repairs to exchange transmissions. One member had a failing transmission overhauled for $4400 complete when the cost in the States was much more than that. Might pay to do some investigation. I can't remember the name of the forum member with the bad trans.

Pierce

Re: Allison snake eyes

Reply #3 – February 01, 2022, 08:02:19 am

It may not be the same problem, but we had intermittant trouble with our 3060 while on the way from Iowa to AZ a couple of weeks ago ending with snake eyes and no start. Luckily, we had decided to stop at a campground and were stuck there rather than the side of the road or fuel stop, etc. I checked things over and used the troubleshooting tips that Chuck linked to up above. After talking with John at Transmission Instruments, I ended up removing the ECM and shift pad and sent them to him for rebuild.

There is no way I would cross the border and hope to make it to San Carlos with a known issue like this.

Re: Allison snake eyes

Reply #4 – February 01, 2022, 08:42:00 am

Unplug and replug the ECU and shift pad. Clean contacts with an electric cleaner.

Many have found that warming the ECU and shift pad with hair dryer on low and from a distance helps.

But, while I am a long-time Mexico traveler, I agree, I would not cross until more than the above temporary fix was accomplished to get me to a safe place.

ABSOLUTELY, DO CALL JOHN and have him walk them through the diagnostic process. This (repair of this generation of Allison shift pads and ECU's is what he has done for a living for many years: About

Re: Allison snake eyes

Reply #5 – February 01, 2022, 10:16:31 am

Yes last night he called me from border and I gave him Johns number to call first thing this am. Told him not to try getting here while not knowing what is going on. He is supposed to call me soon and I will explain how to read codes but think John will have him doing that maybe. They are presently in Why with only phone and no internet, so may have to have them at least go back to Aho and stay but not sure if there is UPS there.
While at Q I believe they have done the unplugging and hair dryer job but he said on way to Lukeville it came back a couple of times. He has not had any issues like no start etc or it shifting while driving but I told him to find out from John what he thinks. Coming down a week or so late is a pain but better than stuck along the road. There is an Allison shop in Hermosillo but do not know if they are compertant on the electronics and this place was hard to find a few years ago and I know that city fairly well.
Thanks to all, and I will keep you informed.
JohnH

Re: Allison snake eyes

Reply #6 – February 01, 2022, 10:19:05 am

Yes on call John. A friend had the snake eyes a few weeks ago. We followed John's diagnostic advice, and sent the ECU and keypad to John. One week and under $300 and all is good.

I suspect calling a shop would have been a tow, $1000, a month of waiting, plus John's service and the shop markup.

Re: Allison snake eyes

Reply #7 – February 01, 2022, 10:31:02 am

I'm pretty sure if you go to any Allison shop with the snake eye problem they will only offer one solution: buy a new ECU.

So then it is just a question of money and time. Only the coach owner can make that call.

They can pay the going price ($$$$) for a new ECU from Allison, assuming the shop has one in stock. May be cheaper in Mexico?

OR, mail the ECU and touch pad to John's shop, wait (somewhere) for the round trip mailing time (variable), and pay the repair cost (variable).

Re: Allison snake eyes

Reply #8 – February 01, 2022, 10:40:42 am

Quote from: John Haygarth – February 01, 2022, 10:16:31 am

They are presently in Why with only phone and no internet, so may have to have them at least go back to Aho and stay but not sure if there is UPS there.

Roland lives in Ajo. He might know about the UPS store and also possible places they could stay if they decide to send ECU to John?

https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1667

Re: Allison snake eyes

Reply #9 – February 01, 2022, 11:01:34 am

Thx Chuck. I know Aho and forgot there is a UPS at the Electronic store on Main St and we have stayed a few times on way down here at an RV Park called Belly Acres it is only $25a night and includes all services so will tell them to go there and wait while Ecu etc are mailed to John.
Would have thought Mell would have called by now to be honest
Johnh

Re: Allison snake eyes

Reply #10 – February 01, 2022, 11:09:59 am

John at TI fixed our ecm and shift pad and overnighted it back the same day he received it. It was $851 with the extra UPS charge. 2 year warranty.
I also paid a little bit extra when I sent it for morning delivery which may not have mattered.

Re: Allison snake eyes

Reply #11 – February 01, 2022, 11:32:51 am

Just talked to him and told him to go back to Ajo and park there and send box off. They visited Roland on way down so know his home.
Guess we will find out later today what is John's thought but Mel said he is going to send it to him regardless.
Thx
Johnh

Re: Allison snake eyes

Reply #12 – February 01, 2022, 01:19:41 pm

Hi all,
Could someone post john's contact info in case of issues in the future?

Re: Allison snake eyes

Reply #13 – February 01, 2022, 01:31:31 pm

Transmission Instruments

Re: Allison snake eyes

Reply #14 – February 01, 2022, 07:12:49 pm

Dumb question? What is the " snake eyes " problem and where does it show up?

Re: Allison snake eyes

Reply #15 – February 01, 2022, 07:49:32 pm

Quote from: rworley – February 01, 2022, 07:12:49 pm

Dumb question? What is the " snake eyes " problem and where does it show up?

It is on the shift pad display. I've seen it called snake eyes, cat eyes, chicken feet, and maybe more. For example, my WTECII display normally shows N N if in neutral. The snake eyes show up in place of the N's.

Re: Allison snake eyes

Reply #16 – February 01, 2022, 09:52:07 pm

Quote from: rworley – February 01, 2022, 07:12:49 pm

What is the " snake eyes " problem and where does it show up?

See photo.

Re: Allison snake eyes

Reply #17 – February 02, 2022, 10:13:16 am

That's not what I have on my U225. I have a lever shifter; pretty sure it operates a cable.

Re: Allison snake eyes

Reply #18 – February 02, 2022, 10:18:02 am

Quote from: rworley – February 02, 2022, 10:13:16 am

That's not what I have on my U225. I have a lever shifter; pretty sure it operates a cable.

Then you don't need to worry about Snake Eyes. Only affects Allison transmissions with electronic touchpad control.

As in many cases, more simple IS more better!

Re: Allison snake eyes

Reply #19 – February 02, 2022, 10:20:22 am

Quote from: rworley – February 02, 2022, 10:13:16 am

That's not what I have on my U225. I have a lever shifter; pretty sure it operates a cable.

Your transmission is just mechanical and doesn't have an ECM. You will never have electrical problems like snake eyes

Re: Allison snake eyes

Reply #20 – February 02, 2022, 10:57:58 am

Short update.
Roland has been emailing me and told me that Mel is bringing the parts to his house and they will package them and send off to John.
I still do not know if it threw any codes that are serious and have a sneaky feeling that as he had no driving issues or non starts that this could turn-out to be a bad electrical feed problem. He has had alternator etc issues last 6 months.
Does anyone know were the battery terminal block is on a 94 GV 240 as I want him to check condition of it while waiting for parts to come back
Johnh

Re: Allison snake eyes

Reply #21 – February 02, 2022, 11:19:22 am

Quote from: rworley – February 02, 2022, 10:13:16 am

That's not what I have on my U225. I have a lever shifter; pretty sure it operates a cable.

Completely different (non-electronic) transmission.

Re: Allison snake eyes

Reply #22 – February 02, 2022, 11:30:17 am

Quote from: John Haygarth – February 02, 2022, 10:57:58 am

Does anyone know were the battery terminal block is on a 94 GV 240 as I want him to check condition of it while waiting for parts to come back.

What is the "battery terminal block"? Sounds like a common positive connection point for all the battery power circuits?

Don't have anything like that on our '93 U280. Closest thing I can think of would be the main 12 volt panel in our center storage bay (under the white fiberglass cover). All my 12 volt power circuits originate there.

Panel is depicted on my B-2126 Automotive Wiring Diagram. See photo below:

There are 3 big 90A circuit breakers across the top. Main 12V feed to dash (ignition solenoid + all fuses and relays) comes off top left 90A breaker.

(Ignore yellow arrow in photo)

Re: Allison snake eyes

Reply #23 – February 02, 2022, 11:40:34 am

There are TWO fuses that supply the Allison, at least on the 1993 U240. Pop the dash up and they are in front of the driver's side and labeled.

My recollection is one 5 amp and one 15 amp.

Re: Allison snake eyes

Reply #24 – February 02, 2022, 11:47:40 am

Yes Chuck. I had one on the 295 so thought all may have them.
Do you think like me that if the coach does not have start issue after snake eyes and drives as normal that a 12v feed issue will cause them and if it is a momentary issue they would go away then come back, which is what was happening from what I can remember when he last talked to me.
John

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