Solar Question for Gurus

Topic: Solar Question for Gurus (Read 2153 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #50 – February 14, 2022, 12:02:26 pm

So you are going to spend more on this then what you did on your coach?

When I had a new 2001 boat people asked me what I paid for it. I always told them "More then I paid for my house."
Never was asked about the last 3 FT but if I was I would give the same answer since still living in the same house since 1979

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #51 – February 14, 2022, 12:21:06 pm

Chuck,

I am proud of you, you engage in the same type of projects I do, the ones I think are nice to do regardless the economics.

I am rebuilding a dilapidated cabin on top of a mountain sitting on 60 acres that I bought to help out a financially strapped relative.
I needed the place as badly as a fourth leg, when people ask me what I am doing there I say: "Building a hunting cabin". The place has lots of wildlife, I do not let my dog run free around it on visits because there are frequent cougar sightings. And I have no interest whatsoever in hunting.

Your project will cost north of $ 50 K, at your present electricity cost of $ 2500/year it will only take you 20 years to break even.

But the non tangible advantages are priceless, I could shoot a cougar If I desire so.

Onwards and forward.

Regards

Klaus

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #52 – February 14, 2022, 12:21:38 pm

Just dont use the Go fund me site. They take like 10-20% off the top for there services.

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #53 – February 14, 2022, 12:27:30 pm

Quote from: turbojack – February 14, 2022, 12:02:26 pm

So you are going to spend more on this then what you did on your coach?

That's not too hard, actually. We got a really good deal on our coach (in 2013) - only paid $30k thanx to some very kind Forum members who cut us a break. Of course we've got a bit more in it now due to some "upgrades" and voluntary improvements.

Money ain't worth what it used to be. The whole value to price relationship seems warped.

We were looking at the Ford Lightning E-pickup as a possible replacement for our Chevy Bolt (which cost us $20k out-of-pocket). The price on the Lightning will supposedly be from $40k to $95k plus tax.
NINETY FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS for a pickup truck! And yet they have already booked $100 reservations for the first two years projected production run.

I figure might as well spend the money before the value goes to zero, like it routinely does in some 3rd world countries.

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #54 – February 14, 2022, 04:25:58 pm

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – February 14, 2022, 12:27:30 pm

I figure might as well spend the money before the value goes to zero, like it does in some 3rd world countries.

My wife says lets spend it before our kids do. I have been doing a pretty good job at following her instructions.

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #55 – February 14, 2022, 04:42:11 pm

No kids here - one less thing to give me (more) gray hair.

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #56 – February 14, 2022, 07:55:22 pm

Solar for RVs is not like planning for a home. No way to compute payback $. Just fill as much of the roof with panels as you want, get a controller to handle the total amps with some extra for efficiency and expansion, that has an inside remote meter display. Major planning done...

One choice what solar output voltage to use, either with series or parallel wiring. Use large enough cables from panels and down to controller. Another is how to mount panels to roof. Tilt & track the sun is nice but with sun always moving during each day, just leaving everything flat is usually more practical.

Solar allows one to minimize generator time, but often battery storage is the limitation.

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #57 – February 17, 2022, 09:09:03 am

Update:

We should have our final system configuration pinned down by this weekend. Still clarifying a few details with the installer.

Meanwhile, I am reading up on the Enlighten monitoring program used by Enphase. It looks pretty useful to me (a total neophyte). See below (if interested):

MyEnlighten Introduction | Enphase

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #58 – February 18, 2022, 09:59:07 am

Well, we signed the contract, so it's a go.

We picked a small local family owned solar installation company over the big national outfits. Our salesman (one of the owners) bent over backwards trying to earn our business. His bid was considerably less than the big outfits, and he gave us every break he could on the prices. He has a long list of happy local residential and commercial customers. They are a "Certified Installer" for Enphase and for LG (which is required in order to receive full manufacturer warranty coverage). I think we made the right decision, but only time will tell.

What we are (hopefully) going to end up with:

System size: 15.22 kW (See solar production analysis file linked below)
Estimated 1st year production: 27,624 kWh = 2302 kWh per month = 77 kWh per day
(40) NeON 2 LG380N1C-A6 panels, 60 cell, 380W, 21.0% efficiency
(40) Enphase IQ7+ micro inverters
(2) Encharge 10T Storage System modules (AC coupled batteries, 20.16 kWh total useable, lithium iron phosphate (LFP) chemistry)
Enpower Smart Switch
IQ Combiner (includes Envoy wireless communication module)
Production and Consumption monitoring meters
Enlighten mobile app
IronRidge aluminum rail ground mount system
All material and labor required for complete turnkey installation, plus any permitting (if required)
25 year guarantee on all system components, 25 year Power Production Guarantee

And, as promised, I will reveal the cost of the system. Let me preface by saying the "Solar" is a very hot commodity in TX right now. Lots of interest in residential installs affects pricing and availability of materials. We are very likely "higher priced" here than some other parts of the country. Even so, I think we came out pretty good on the bottom line.

List Price for complete system: 77,092
Less Oncor Rebate (8% paid directly to installer by TDU): (5,928)

Cost to Customer (cost basis - used for figuring tax credit): 71,164
Less 26% Fed Tax Credit: (18,503)

Final "Out-Of-Pocket" cost to customer: 52,661

Less cost of 2 storage modules ($8,000 each, average installed price in TX) (16,000)

Approximate cost of "grid-tied" solar system without storage: 36,661

Solar cost (36661) divided by system size in watts (15220) equals price per watt: $2.41

If there is continued interest in this project, AND assuming we have Moderator blessing, I'll return with some photos of the installation process as it proceeds. If not, we can let this thread RIP.

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #59 – February 18, 2022, 02:07:49 pm

Congratulations Chuck. Once it is in you will see the benefits immediately. Ours was installed late fall as we went into winter. It was underwhelming for the first few months. You have to look at things on an annual basis to have a clear picture of what is going on. After our first season we trimmed and removed more trees (we live in the woods) to improve performance. It helped. It is likely dusty where you are, ask the installer about a panel cleaning process and frequency. Where we are it is snow removal in the winter.

Let the sun shine!

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #60 – February 22, 2022, 09:35:54 pm

Something to ponder, from the Fort Bend County Texas Facebook page.

Keith

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #61 – February 22, 2022, 09:48:56 pm

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – February 18, 2022, 09:59:07 am

Well, we signed the contract, so it's a go.

We picked a small local family owned solar installation company over the big national outfits. Our salesman (one of the owners) bent over backwards trying to earn our business. His bid was considerably less than the big outfits, and he gave us every break he could on the prices. He has a long list of happy local residential and commercial customers. They are a "Certified Installer" for Enphase and for LG (which is required in order to receive full manufacturer warranty coverage). I think we made the right decision, but only time will tell.

What we are (hopefully) going to end up with:

System size: 15.22 kW (See solar production analysis file linked below)
Estimated 1st year production: 27,624 kWh = 2302 kWh per month = 77 kWh per day
(40) NeON 2 LG380N1C-A6 panels, 60 cell, 380W, 21.0% efficiency
(40) Enphase IQ7+ micro inverters
(2) Encharge 10 Storage System modules (AC coupled batteries, 20.16 kWh total useable, lithium iron phosphate (LFP) chemistry)
Enpower Smart Switch
IQ Combiner (includes Envoy wireless communication module)
Production and Consumption monitoring meters
Enlighten mobile app
IronRidge aluminum rail ground mount system
All material and labor required for complete turnkey installation, plus any permitting (if required)
25 year guarantee on all system components, 25 year Power Production Guarantee

And, as promised, I will reveal the cost of the system. Let me preface by saying the "Solar" is a very hot commodity in TX right now. Lots of interest in residential installs affects pricing and availability of materials. We are very likely "higher priced" here than some other parts of the country. Even so, I think we came out pretty good on the bottom line.

List Price for complete system: 77,092
Less Oncor Rebate (8% paid directly to installer by TDU): (5,928)

Cost to Customer (cost basis - used for figuring tax credit): 71,164
Less 26% Fed Tax Credit: (18,503)

Final "Out-Of-Pocket" cost to customer: 52,661

Less cost of 2 storage modules ($8,000 each, average installed price in TX) (16,000)

Approximate cost of "grid-tied" solar system without storage: 36,661

Solar cost (36661) divided by system size in watts (15220) equals price per watt: $2.41

If there is continued interest in this project, AND assuming we have Moderator blessing, I'll return with some photos of the installation process as it proceeds. If not, we can let this thread RIP.

So if my Math is right, this would be my breakdown if I installed this

I average 200 month electric bill which is ~2400 a year
System is 36600k /2400= 15.25 years for it to pay off.
Is this correct??. Just trying to understand this

Keith

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #62 – February 22, 2022, 10:27:22 pm

The $36,600 cost is without battery storage (you would be buying electricity at night). The better comparison for complete coverage of your electric bill is to use the cost with battery storage. This also is assuming you would need the same size system as Chuck's.

52,600 / 2400 = 21.9 years

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #63 – February 22, 2022, 10:32:39 pm

Keith, is a static world, yes but you need to assume your electric bills are going to change, generally upward. The solar salespeople will do their best to present a best of all scenarios. So if in 15 years your electric bills were to go up say 50% your payoff might be maybe 11 years. The really big sales pitch comes when they show you what your savings would be over 25 years, assuming rates go up but (poorly) assuming consumption is steady. Not paying for most of your electric use once the system is paid off adds up to some very big numbers.

I don't know anyone who is 40 that is doing this even though the savings before retirement are huge. But they should.

Well, not many people live in a house for 20 years or more either. That said, the salespeople pull out the how much more your house will be worth charts. Will it be an added value to a buyer at some point in the future? We think there is a good chance of that for our home in our location for the kind of buyer it will attract.

We did it not for economic payback but because it was a good thing to do.

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #64 – February 22, 2022, 11:18:12 pm

Keith,

We're not worried about setting our roof on fire because our panels will be mounted on the ground 120' behind our house. It's usually the high voltage DC put out by the roof panels that causes fires. Our panels will each have individual inverters that convert the DC to AC before it comes to the house.

As for the "pay off" period, there are several ways of looking at it. The solar salesmen can manipulate those numbers just like a magician doing slight-of-hand. It can make your head spin trying to keep up with them.

Like Roger said, utility bills will probably go up in the future. How much is a guess. That's why the salesmen like the 25-year projection - makes the case for solar look more appealing.

Our system, like Peter noted, will have "storage". The beauty of storage is that it makes the solar panels more "useful". Most grid tied systems are useless when the grid goes down - ours will continue to operate. Battery-less grid-tied system are dead at night - ours will allow us to cover some of our night-time power usage by regurgitating the power stored during the day. If a system is large enough to produce excess power during the day, and IF you can find a electric provider with a decent "solar buy back" policy, then you can bank some solar credits on high production days to cover your deficit on low production days. All this helps to lower (but does not necessarily totally eliminate) your monthly utility bill.

We don't know how all this will work out financially. It's a big experiment as far as I'm concerned. We paid cash for our system, using money that was earning very little interest. By doing so we avoided any finance charges which saves us some money. We will pay ourselves back for the "loan" in 10 years without causing any strain on our budget. We are comfortable with the financial aspect of this deal, but what we are doing certainly won't make sense to everybody. Different strokes for different folks.

We feel the same as Roger about solar. We think it will be a good thing to make most of our own electricity in our modest little backyard solar farm. We like being less dependent on some big faceless entity for the power that keeps us comfortable in our home. We like the idea of producing our own "fuel" to power our electric car, and our electric riding lawn mower, and our electric bikes.

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #65 – February 23, 2022, 06:44:18 am

Thanks, I understand y'all's logic now. Looking forward to seeing your project progress. To each his own, that's what makes this country great.

Keith

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #66 – February 23, 2022, 08:59:37 am

Texas Top Soil, huh?

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #67 – February 23, 2022, 10:27:58 am

Too late to have the panels mounted high enough to use for coach shade?

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #68 – February 23, 2022, 10:30:55 am

So I wonder how the carbon foot print would compare to a diesel generator and fuel to run it? We have solar heated water to heat our house. Not perfect but takes a huge bite out of our power bill. In the winter. Radiant heat floors are nice. We do run low on heat early spring but manageable.
Scott

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #69 – February 23, 2022, 10:32:13 am

Quote from: craneman – February 23, 2022, 10:27:58 am

Too late to have the panels mounted high enough to use for coach shade?

Already asked and answered early in the thread (Reply #23 and 24).

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #70 – February 23, 2022, 10:44:52 am

Sorry I missed the wind issue.

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #71 – February 23, 2022, 11:05:02 am

Quote from: dsd – February 23, 2022, 10:30:55 am

So I wonder how the carbon foot print would compare to a diesel generator and fuel to run it?

I don't know nothing about "carbon footprint".

Unless you are going to run a generator 24/7 I don't think it can be logically compared to a solar setup as a continuous provider of electric power. For emergencies sure generators work - but not for every day use.

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #72 – February 23, 2022, 11:19:10 am

Carbon footprint is the calculated amount of carbon produced in the production , use and disposal of something. Great example is a Prius and a Humve. The Prius has a larger carbon foot print cradle to grave than the Humve. This includes all the fuel used to power. Doesn't seem possible to me but because of the Batteries construction and disposal cost? Concrete also has High numbers but I do like it, Im probably part of the problem actually.
Scott

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #73 – February 23, 2022, 06:42:03 pm

Chuck..how deep are the holes ?

Re: Solar Question for Gurus

Reply #74 – February 23, 2022, 07:58:28 pm

Chuck- I would be interested in you keeping us updated on this project, this is exactly what I want to do. So please keep the updates coming!

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