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Topic: Operating 110vac Items on Inverter (Read 1061 times) previous topic - next topic

Operating 110vac Items on Inverter

Today, running through all electrical items checks, I could not get my refrigerator or microwave powered on the inverter. Generator was off and batteries freshly charged.

Any trouble-shooting help will be appreciated. I tried to find this condition using Search, but did not find anything.
1989 Foretravel U300 Grand Villa
Build #3410

Re: Operating 110vac Items on Inverter

Reply #1 –
What inverter?  Reset breakers on it???

Inverter output wired to sub-panel or directly from inverter to outlets?
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Operating 110vac Items on Inverter

Reply #2 –
Quote from: wolfe10 –
What inverter?  Reset breakers on it???

Inverter output wired to sub-panel or directly from inverter to outlets?
Brett, Inverter switching through Zantrex panel. I did not reset the breaker but will try that first thing tomorrow. I never use inverter power, so was not aware until today that none of the 110 appliances were working on inverter.

As to which inverter model, I do not recall, and will have to get the info off the inverter unit. I know it is original and 1500 watt, if that gives any hint as to the model/brand.
1989 Foretravel U300 Grand Villa
Build #3410

Re: Operating 110vac Items on Inverter

Reply #3 –
Does the Xantrex panel merely control inverter operation or does 120 VAC output go through it.  Never seen the latter.

It is the 120 VAC output that you need to trace. 

What Xantrex model do you have?  Most have "pass through" feature so when on shore power or generator everything 120 VAC "downstream" of the inverter is automatically live from the "upstream" source.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Operating 110vac Items on Inverter

Reply #4 –
Do you have a switch plate on the wall which is about 5 inches wide and 8 inches tall with a switch on it to choose what it will run?  I think that it might be a Pacs inverter if it is the original one.
previous 1984 35 ft ORED 250 HP 3208 Cat       
previous 1998 40 ft U295 CAI 325 hp Cummins
previous 2003 40 Ft u320 build #6140 450 Cummins M11.                                                         
1999 Mazda Miata
Ron, Nancy, Tipper the cat, Max The dog
1997 U 270 36 ft build number 5174 8.3 Cummins

Re: Operating 110vac Items on Inverter

Reply #5 –
Quote from: wolfe10 –
Does the Xantrex panel merely control inverter operation or does 120 VAC output go through it.  Never seen the latter.

It is the 120 VAC output that you need to trace. 

What Xantrex model do you have?  Most have "pass through" feature so when on shore power or generator everything 120 VAC "downstream" of the inverter is automatically live from the "upstream" source.

I'm going to have to get that information in the morning if I cannot find my Zantrex manual this afternoon. I'll post a picture of the panel here, in case that will identify it.




1989 Foretravel U300 Grand Villa
Build #3410

Re: Operating 110vac Items on Inverter

Reply #6 –
Quote from: RandallBrink –
I'm going to have to get that information in the morning if I cannot find my Zantrex manual this afternoon. I'll post a picture of the panel here, in case that will identify it.





1989 Foretravel U300 Grand Villa
Build #3410

Re: Operating 110vac Items on Inverter

Reply #7 –
Ya, that is an odd reading on the panel.

50 amp on "power share" in means it has plenty of amps of 120 VAC to do everything.  Are you on a 50 amp connection and is voltage over 110VAC?

12.5 VDC to the battery is an issue, particularly with only 10 amps going in.

At 12.5 VDC on the house battery bank, the inverter/charger should be in BULK mode and voltage around 14.

And, turning the "inverter" off should have no effect on anything since the pass through feature of that inverter/charger will pass the 120 VAC through from shore power.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Operating 110vac Items on Inverter

Reply #8 –
Looks like it has been upgraded from original.
previous 1984 35 ft ORED 250 HP 3208 Cat       
previous 1998 40 ft U295 CAI 325 hp Cummins
previous 2003 40 Ft u320 build #6140 450 Cummins M11.                                                         
1999 Mazda Miata
Ron, Nancy, Tipper the cat, Max The dog
1997 U 270 36 ft build number 5174 8.3 Cummins

Re: Operating 110vac Items on Inverter

Reply #9 –
Quote from: wolfe10 –
What inverter?  Reset breakers on it???

Inverter output wired to sub-panel or directly from inverter to outlets?
I believe it is the Freedom 15D. Will confirm.
1989 Foretravel U300 Grand Villa
Build #3410

Re: Operating 110vac Items on Inverter

Reply #10 –
Quote from: wolfe10 –
Ya, that is an odd reading on the panel.

50 amp in means it has plenty of amps of 120 VAC to do everything.  Are you on a 50 amp connection and is voltage over 110VAC?

12.5 VDC to the battery is an issue, particularly with only 10 amps going in.

At 12.5 VDC on the house battery bank, the inverter/charger should be in BULK mode and voltage around 14.
This pic was taken some time ago, not today; probably on either shore power or Gen.. I only posted it in the reply in the hope that it may help identify the inverter and panel type.
1989 Foretravel U300 Grand Villa
Build #3410

Re: Operating 110vac Items on Inverter

Reply #11 –
Quote from: RandallBrink –
This pic was taken some time ago, not today; probably on either shore power or Gen.. I only posted it in the reply in the hope that it may help identify the inverter and panel type.


OK, but those reading are/were still Wonky.

Please update us with the current readings when you get back to the coach (or just post another picture of the panel).
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Operating 110vac Items on Inverter

Reply #12 –
Quote from: wolfe10 –

OK, but those reading are/were still Wonky.

Please update us with the current readings when you get back to the coach (or just post another picture of the panel).
Will do Brett. Part of the weirdness of the photo is that the inverter was on while on either shore power or Gen. Don't know why, but will get fresh info in the morning.

Many thanks again for the help.
1989 Foretravel U300 Grand Villa
Build #3410

Re: Operating 110vac Items on Inverter

Reply #13 –
The OEM was a Taytronics 1500 watt inverter on our 1993 U300. It must weigh 80 lbs, is not very efficient, drops the voltage when switched on without anything running. Originally, there was a switch so you could go between the microwave and the rest of the coach. There was a button on the panel (to the right of the sink) that had to be pushed to turn it on and then the operation could be toggled. The changeover switch under the bed made the change from microwave to the rest of the coach. It operates on 24 volts. I changed the wires so my inverter operates all the coach outlets. I did make so changes so the other inverters operate some other outlets now. I can supply the schematic on the cover of the switch box and a photo of the wiring change I made to tie all the outlets together.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Operating 110vac Items on Inverter

Reply #14 –
Quote from: RandallBrink –
Don't know why, but will get fresh info in the morning.


No problem leaving the inverter on while on shore power.  It will just be in "stand by" mode until shore power is lost and will then "invert" to supply those circuits downstream of the inverter. 

It is NOT a good idea to leave the inverter turned on while a coach is in storage, as loss of shore power could cause the inverter to quickly drain the batteries even if nothing is turned on due to power it takes to be in stand by mode.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Operating 110vac Items on Inverter

Reply #15 –
Quote from: wolfe10 –
No problem leaving the inverter on while on shore power.  It will just be in "stand by" mode until shore power is lost and will then "invert" to supply those circuits downstream of the inverter. 

It is NOT a good idea to leave the inverter turned on while a coach is in storage, as loss of shore power could cause the inverter to quickly drain the batteries even if nothing is turned on due to power it takes to be in stand by mode.

Good point. I believeI was told that and to just not leave inverter on when not being used.
1989 Foretravel U300 Grand Villa
Build #3410

Re: Operating 110vac Items on Inverter

Reply #16 –
Quote from: RandallBrink –
Will do Brett. Part of the weirdness of the photo is that the inverter was on while on either shore power or Gen. Don't know why, but will get fresh info in the morning.

Many thanks again for the help.
Randall Brink?  Those readings make perfect sense if the inverter is an inverter/charger and is currently charging the battery to which it is connected.
1992 Foretravel Grand Villa
U225 SBID Build No. 4134
1986 Rockwood Driftwood
1968 S.I.A.T.A. Spring
1962 Studebaker Lark
1986 Honda VF700C
1983 Honda VF750C
Charlie, the Dog was broken out of jail 24 Oct 2023
N1RPN
AA1OH (H)e who must be obeyed.

Re: Operating 110vac Items on Inverter

Reply #17 –
Quote from: wolfe10 –
No problem leaving the inverter on while on shore power.  It will just be in "stand by" mode until shore power is lost and will then "invert" to supply those circuits downstream of the inverter. 

It is NOT a good idea to leave the inverter turned on while a coach is in storage, as loss of shore power could cause the inverter to quickly drain the batteries even if nothing is turned on due to power it takes to be in stand by mode.

Brett, picture going up, the inverter make and model.

1989 Foretravel U300 Grand Villa
Build #3410

Re: Operating 110vac Items on Inverter

Reply #18 –
Quote from: Old Toolmaker –
Randall Brink?  Those readings make perfect sense if the inverter is an inverter/charger and is currently charging the battery to which it is connected.
I believe it was, with the power source to the inv/chg being Gen.
1989 Foretravel U300 Grand Villa
Build #3410

Re: Operating 110vac Items on Inverter

Reply #19 –
Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart –
The OEM was a Taytronics 1500 watt inverter on our 1993 U300. It must weigh 80 lbs, is not very efficient, drops the voltage when switched on without anything running. Originally, there was a switch so you could go between the microwave and the rest of the coach. There was a button on the panel (to the right of the sink) that had to be pushed to turn it on and then the operation could be toggled. The changeover switch under the bed made the change from microwave to the rest of the coach. It operates on 24 volts. I changed the wires so my inverter operates all the coach outlets. I did make so changes so the other inverters operate some other outlets now. I can supply the schematic on the cover of the switch box and a photo of the wiring change I made to tie all the outlets together.

Pierce
I posted a picture, below, of the installed inverter/charger. I also hunted for that switch you mentioned to no avail. But yet, after reading your post, it does not seem to make sense that the only inverter switch would be on the Zantrex panel. The hunt for additional switching continues.

Update: There is language in the Freedom manual about switching, seeming to point toward the "Link" control unit just under the Xantrex panel.
1989 Foretravel U300 Grand Villa
Build #3410

Re: Operating 110vac Items on Inverter

Reply #20 –
Quote from: Old Toolmaker –
Randall Brink?  Those readings make perfect sense if the inverter is an inverter/charger and is currently charging the battery to which it is connected.

If you are referring to the picture in post #6, I disagree. 

With AC power IN, and battery voltage reading of only 12.5 VDC and charge rate of only 10 amps, SOMETHING is wrong.

The charge amps should be near max for the charger section as it should be in bulk mode and trying to drive voltage up to bulk rate voltage of about 14 VDC. Even if in float mode, voltage is close to .7 VDC low.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Operating 110vac Items on Inverter

Reply #21 –
Quote from: wolfe10 –
If you are referring to the picture in post #6, I disagree. 

With AC power IN, and battery voltage reading of only 12.5 VDC and charge rate of only 10 amps, SOMETHING is wrong.

The charge amps should be near max for the charger section as it should be in bulk mode and trying to drive voltage up to bulk rate voltage of about 14 VDC. Even if in float mode, voltage is close to .7 VDC low.

Brett, for the time being ignore the 10A reading, and everything else says CHARGE!  There are many reasons for the low charge rate one being that the charger may be in absorption mode which is around 12.6 volts, an idea that explains both the 12.5 and the 10A charge rate.  Going back to the photo, there are three battery symbols under the label Battery State with the led lit over the middle, so if we interpret the three pictures as very low, 80%, and fully charged we can guess that they represent Bulk, Absorption and Float.

https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=44184.0;attach=119912;image
1992 Foretravel Grand Villa
U225 SBID Build No. 4134
1986 Rockwood Driftwood
1968 S.I.A.T.A. Spring
1962 Studebaker Lark
1986 Honda VF700C
1983 Honda VF750C
Charlie, the Dog was broken out of jail 24 Oct 2023
N1RPN
AA1OH (H)e who must be obeyed.

Re: Operating 110vac Items on Inverter

Reply #22 –
If the Xantrex inverter/charger is programmed properly, absorption (lowest voltage) for either wet cell or AGM should be in the 13.2-13.5 range. 12.5, not so much.

BTW over the years on sailboats and motorhomes, the Xantrex programming changed from: inside inverter itself to remove remote from wall and set dip switches to programming from front of remote. 

Said another way, there is NO WAY that a properly operating charging device connected to 120 VAC would keep batteries at 12.5 VDC.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Operating 110vac Items on Inverter

Reply #23 –
Quote from: wolfe10 –
If the Xantrex inverter/charger is programmed properly,

I'm sorry Brett, you are correct: Float 13.2, Absorption 13.6, and Bulk 14.4.  12.5 is in the mostly charged range and don't worry.

I keep looking for ways to not spend Randall's money.  Getting harder and harder every post.
1992 Foretravel Grand Villa
U225 SBID Build No. 4134
1986 Rockwood Driftwood
1968 S.I.A.T.A. Spring
1962 Studebaker Lark
1986 Honda VF700C
1983 Honda VF750C
Charlie, the Dog was broken out of jail 24 Oct 2023
N1RPN
AA1OH (H)e who must be obeyed.

Re: Operating 110vac Items on Inverter

Reply #24 –
Quote from: Old Toolmaker –
I'm sorry Brett, you are correct: Float 13.2, Absorption 13.6, and Bulk 14.4.  12.5 is in the mostly charged range and don't worry.

I keep looking for ways to not spend Randall's money.  Getting harder and harder every post.

You're right about that! Thanks.
1989 Foretravel U300 Grand Villa
Build #3410