Engine Coolant Filter

Topic: Engine Coolant Filter (Read 3015 times) previous topic - next topic

Engine Coolant Filter

March 19, 2022, 08:02:51 pm

Geeting ready to change the Coolant Filter on my 2001 Cummins 8.3 with a Fleetguard WF2077 Filter. I found that both valves on the filter housing seem to be in the closed position. I then remembered ready Don's thread below from a few years ago. I am in the same position as Don was. Makes me wonder, should these valves be open or closed. Been fine with is as is, but wonder what is really the right way.

Does anyone else have any information on this ?

Below is Don's quote:

Chuck,
I think here is another difference in the Mechanical C8.3 and the Electronic ISC 8.3 that started around 99'. Our coolant filter is remote mounted on the street side of the engine and appears to have to standard looking gate valve similar to a hose bib, one on each side of the filter. The picture attached is looking towards the front of the coach from above with the bed open. You can just make out the valve handle. I will probably replace mine eventually with ball valves. When I first had all fluids and filters changed before our first trip to Texas, the mechanic who did it told me that both of those valves were closed and therefore the filter that was on there couldn't have been doing anything since it was out of the loop. Obviously, the coolant still circulated since the operating temperatures have always been within range. That has always puzzled me because that would mean that the coolant has multiple loops and so the coolant filter needn't be in place for the coolant system to function. I haven't looked closely at the filter mount, so there may be a bypass that happens with both valves closed. I am not sure how that could be accomplished unless these are two way valves, in which case, why would there be two of them? One of these days, I will have a closer look at the plumbing of the coolant filter. To this point, it has been one of those "if it isn't broke, don't fix it" kind of items on the potential project list. Next time I change the coolant filter, I will pay more attention.
Don

Re: Engine Coolant Filter

Reply #1 – March 19, 2022, 08:43:31 pm

"Fine with it closed, should these valves be open or closed?"

The filter does the same job as does your oil filter; keeps the particles out of the liquid. So open.
There are valves to isolate the filter because you might swap out that filter for one with a known amount of DCA or Dry Chemical Additive after testing your coolant. And then swap the "blank" back in when the coolant DCA level is correct.

Re: Engine Coolant Filter

Reply #2 – March 19, 2022, 08:49:01 pm

My 97 C8.3 had a bypass to my recollection in the housing. Seems like a good safety feature but closing off the filter might reduce total flow by some amount. Mine is near top of engine as part of thermostat housing. The nylon valve for cutting off flow was a nightmare to replace. Yours sounds super easy.

Re: Engine Coolant Filter

Reply #3 – March 20, 2022, 11:13:19 am

Quote from: Realmccoy – March 19, 2022, 08:49:01 pm

My 97 C8.3 had a bypass to my recollection in the housing. Seems like a good safety feature but closing off the filter might reduce total flow by some amount. Mine is near top of engine as part of thermostat housing. The nylon valve for cutting off flow was a nightmare to replace. Yours sounds super easy.

I didn't want to get into the bypass flow stuff but I can ask this: When you turn the heat off in your car thereby stopping coolant flow through the cabin heat exchanger, does your car overheat?

Re: Engine Coolant Filter

Reply #4 – March 20, 2022, 04:08:48 pm

I think my bigger question is why the valves have been closed to begin with. Apparently, it was the same (closed) on Don's Coach too. Had me wondering if the "normal closed" position could possibly be the correct way for operation. (I have seen crazier things in my life)
Kinda makes me want to just leave them in the closed position. It's been that way for 3 years that I have owned it (over 25,000 miles), has always been in normal operation temperature range and no cooling issues. If it ain't broke..................
I would like to know the true way it's supposed to operate though.

Re: Engine Coolant Filter

Reply #5 – March 21, 2022, 03:58:40 am

It,s there to filter coolant and valve should be open,you use a blank filter with non sca coolant.Check
Previous posts for the metal replacement valve.

Re: Engine Coolant Filter

Reply #6 – March 21, 2022, 07:18:10 am

Quote from: MarkC – March 20, 2022, 04:08:48 pm

I think my bigger question is why the valves have been closed to begin with. Apparently, it was the same (closed) on Don's Coach too. Had me wondering if the "normal closed" position could possibly be the correct way for operation. (I have seen crazier things in my life)
Kinda makes me want to just leave them in the closed position. It's been that way for 3 years that I have owned it (over 25,000 miles), has always been in normal operation temperature range and no cooling issues. If it ain't broke..................
I would like to know the true way it's supposed to operate though.

John44 is correct. The filter is there to clean particulates from the coolant for multiple reasons, one of which is to protect the water pump impeller from erosion. The only reason those valves are there is to swap out the filters to manage the supplemental coolant additive keeping the coolant fresh and protective.

Re: Engine Coolant Filter

Reply #7 – March 21, 2022, 10:23:57 am

Verify what coolant you have and get the correct filter,remove the old filter,if after the filter is off
No coolant comes out the valve is actually closed and needs to be open to utilize the filter.If valve is
Stuck or broken let s know and we will go from there.On my 8.3 the plastic valve is stuck open and
I have the parts to fix but if you remove the old filter fast and put the new one on fast you don,t
Lose much coolant.
Yours is more like,Its broke and needs to be fixed.

Re: Engine Coolant Filter

Reply #8 – February 26, 2023, 03:21:49 pm

I just ordered a new coolant filter and want to replace it myself. Last time it was done sometime ago by FT service.
My RV has been siting not started for about a week, so I was thinking to not mess with the valves and just move swiftly while hoping not much coolant should come out? Should I put coolant in to filter as we do for fuel or oil filters?
Thank you,
Al

Re: Engine Coolant Filter

Reply #9 – February 26, 2023, 03:37:33 pm

No need to prefill.

Just have it ready to go with something under it to catch the drip.

Be sure it is the correct filter which depends on what coolant you have!

Re: Engine Coolant Filter

Reply #10 – February 26, 2023, 03:41:23 pm

There should be a filter shut off valve at the filter housing and no you don't need to fill the
filter. When I bought my last filter the parts guy and Cummins asked what antifreeze I was using.
I didn't know at that time that the filter had to match the antifreeze.

Re: Engine Coolant Filter

Reply #11 – February 26, 2023, 03:42:33 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – February 26, 2023, 03:37:33 pm

No need to prefill.

Just have it ready to go with something under it to catch the drip.

Be sure it is the correct filter which depends on what coolant you have!

Thank you for your response Brett.
Right this second type of coolant in there escapes my mind, it is red/pink color. I just looked at the filter part number and order a replacement.
I am also going to replace the engine fuel filters myself for the first time, always had it done. I should prefill them correct, especially the main filter on the engine with the electronic sensing wire.
Don't need to refill the engine oil filter, correct?
Thank you,
Al

Re: Engine Coolant Filter

Reply #12 – February 26, 2023, 03:43:08 pm

But many of the coolant shutoff valves break when turned.

Safer to do a quick change and replace the small amount of lost coolant.

I guess you loose little by GENTLY trying to close them.

Re: Engine Coolant Filter

Reply #13 – February 26, 2023, 03:44:19 pm

If one of the newer generation OAT-based coolants, the filter must be a "filter BLANK".

A filter blank has the same filtration as other filters, but zero units of SCA.

This is important.

Re: Engine Coolant Filter

Reply #14 – February 26, 2023, 03:51:29 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – February 26, 2023, 03:43:08 pm

But many of the coolant shutoff valves break when turned.

Al,

Backing up what Brett said, I'd be careful about trying to close the coolant shutoff valve. A few years back we had a long discussion about that subject. We were talking about the C8.3 engine - don't know if it's the same setup on your coach. Since the filter is pretty high up on the engine block, I doubt you would lose much coolant by leaving the valve open.

C8.3 Water filter shut off valve broken

Re: Engine Coolant Filter

Reply #15 – February 26, 2023, 04:11:49 pm

On a mechanical C8.3 engine, Always prefill fuel filters. Do the filter furthest from engine first, then start engine, expect it to stall, so keep an almost full throttle from moment of first crank. Try to not let it stall. Then repeat for 2^nd fuel filter. Secret is to keep from getting an air block which can be hard to remove.

Electronic engines with electric fuel pumps may get rid of air before starting

Re: Engine Coolant Filter

Reply #16 – February 26, 2023, 04:19:53 pm

If I can I always fill the oil filter as I don't like the engine running dry while the oil filter is filling up.
I put a preluber on my engine so the engine has oil pressure before I turn the engine over. On your
engine you should have a electric pump in the fuel filter so you can use that to fill your fuel filters
before you turn the engine over. Cycle it through twice. I imagine you have a Winns fuel filter.

Re: Engine Coolant Filter

Reply #17 – February 26, 2023, 05:40:19 pm

Quote from: propman – February 26, 2023, 03:42:33 pm

Right this second type of coolant in there escapes my mind, it is red/pink color. I just looked at the filter part number and order a replacement.

A 2003 would have come with Rotella ELC as OEM. It's red/pink in color. Unless someone previously did something wacky since then, that's what you would have if FOT or MOT did a fluid change.

Re: Engine Coolant Filter

Reply #18 – February 26, 2023, 05:44:15 pm

Quote from: Michelle – February 26, 2023, 05:40:19 pm

A 2003 would have come with Rotella ELC as OEM. It's red/pink in color. Unless someone previously did something wacky since then, that's what you would have if FOT or MOT did a fluid change.

Yes it was done at FT in 2017. I believe you are correct, it is ELC. I will reconfirm.

Re: Engine Coolant Filter

Reply #19 – February 26, 2023, 08:43:36 pm

If ELC, absolutely critical that you use a filter BLANK.

Re: Engine Coolant Filter

Reply #20 – February 26, 2023, 11:44:31 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – February 26, 2023, 08:43:36 pm

If ELC, absolutely critical that you use a filter BLANK.

I guess the WIX 24070 is a "no-charge" filter. Rotella ELC indicates to use "blank" / "zero unit" filter.
If so then I do not need to replace it, correct?
>>>
I looked at my books today and confirmed everyones input; put oil in the new oil filter. No fuel in the fuel filters ( "ISL engine has a self-priming, low-pressure system that purges the air from the fuel system. Prefilling the fuel filter can cause fuel pump damage" )

Re: Engine Coolant Filter

Reply #21 – February 27, 2023, 06:48:27 am

Even tho it is a "blank" filter, you should change it at the recommended intervals.

Re: Engine Coolant Filter

Reply #22 – February 27, 2023, 07:46:42 am

Quote from: FourTravelers – February 27, 2023, 06:48:27 am

Even tho it is a "blank" filter, you should change it at the recommended intervals.

Correct. Please understand that blank only means that it does not add SCA (Supplemental Cooling Additive).

It has exactly the same filtration properties as other filters, so it IS important.

Re: Engine Coolant Filter

Reply #23 – February 27, 2023, 11:34:00 am

Quote from: FourTravelers – February 27, 2023, 06:48:27 am

Even tho it is a "blank" filter, you should change it at the recommended intervals.

After I wrote that .... I said to myself, well change it anyway, it should have some kind of a life span :-)

Re: Engine Coolant Filter

Reply #24 – February 27, 2023, 08:08:59 pm

My 2006 does not have a coolant filter. No sca necessary. At least that is what I was told.

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