Inverter/Charger bad charger?

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Inverter/Charger bad charger?

June 18, 2022, 04:52:48 pm

I think I already know what the answers will be, but asking it anyway.

I am still running the OE 2500W Prosine. Until this morning inverted/charged just fine. Unless there is some sort of reset button somewhere, I do believe the charge side of it is gone.

On Shore power, I was sanitizing my water system getting ready to hit the road for a few days next week, when I noticed the Seelevel would not work due to low voltage. Went to the prosine panel and it was in alarm at 11.? volts, taking a meter to the bank this was true. At first figured a bad battery maybe but then noticed the charge mode of the pro-sine was not running. The panel was on, was on showing invert, but the charge side was not running. When I pushed the charge button it would only go to standby, never could get it to go to charge. Cranked the main engine and let it run for about 30 minutes, the battery bank went back to the low 13+ range. While doing some other work had a bunch of 12v coach power draw and invert power draws on and watched it slowly go back down and once again would not got into a charge mode. Ive read all the documents I have on the Pro-sine and see nothing about any troubleshooting as it relates to the inverter working but the charger not. Have looked all around it and see nothing obvious, figure the charge side is gone?

If so wondering what is one of the best out there to replace it with. Just about everything else that is 21 years old, is now new so figured this was coming anyway. Figured I would probably do so when the coach batteries ever went and then possible also convert to Lithium Ion.
At the moment I have the Gel batteries, same as the originals about 5-6 years old from best I can tell. Are there Inverter/Chargers that would handle both types of batteries? I sure done want to change batteries now as I have no need to, and when I do, if I decide to go with LI, I dont want to have to go with even another I/C just special for LI.

At the moment have one of my large Battery tenders on the bank and tied into a shore power outlet. Will plan to run that way

Re: Inverter/Charger bad charger?

Reply #1 – June 18, 2022, 05:05:12 pm

The catch here is that with a combined charger/inverter, if one part goes bad, you lose the other half.

Pierce

Re: Inverter/Charger bad charger?

Reply #2 – June 18, 2022, 05:08:27 pm

Replacing Prosine with Victron Multiplus

Re: Inverter/Charger bad charger?

Reply #3 – June 18, 2022, 08:42:51 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – June 18, 2022, 05:05:12 pm

The catch here is that with a combined charger/inverter, if one part goes bad, you lose the other half.

Pierce

Well the inverter is still working, it just wont go into a charge mode when it gets down below a certain voltage it just keeps going down.

start researching this Victron. very pleased with a Vitron Isolator I have. I just want to make sure whatever I get is compatble with all types of batteries.

Re: Inverter/Charger bad charger?

Reply #4 – June 19, 2022, 02:14:41 pm

Quote from: mkc1962 – June 18, 2022, 08:42:51 pm

.... it just wont go into a charge mode when it gets down below a certain voltage it just keeps going down.

Let's explore this for a minute. If battery voltage is deeply discharged, your inverter/charger is programmed to NOT initiate charging. This is a safety measure in case there is a dead cell and charging could cause severe battery overheating/explosion.

Use an alternate method of charging to get voltage up so that your smart charger can take over. Starting the engine so the alternator can charge, jump from another vehicle, even boost switch if chassis battery voltage is up.

Only after getting voltage up to 12.0 by some method can you reasonably evaluate the charge function of your smart inverter/charger.

Re: Inverter/Charger bad charger?

Reply #5 – June 20, 2022, 08:30:00 am

Quote from: wolfe10 – June 19, 2022, 02:14:41 pm

Let's explore this for a minute. If battery voltage is deeply discharged, your inverter/charger is programmed to NOT initiate charging. This is a safety measure in case there is a dead cell and charging could cause severe battery overheating/explosion.

Use an alternate method of charging to get voltage up so that your smart charger can take over. Starting the engine so the alternator can charge, jump from another vehicle, even boost switch if chassis battery voltage is up.

Only after getting voltage up to 12.0 by some method can you reasonably evaluate the charge function of your smart inverter/charger.

Ive have done that by means of 2 methods. First by running the main engine and getting the coach bank back up above 13.2. At that point disconnected the batteries from their parallel configuration and tested each battery, all were at the same charge voltage as the combined group. From there I ran several 12 vdc loads, as well as a few small inverted loads, it took a few hours but eventually the bank got back down to around the 12.0 range and once again the charger did not come on, only stayed in standby.

After this attempt rather than using the engine to re-energize, used one of my heavy 10A Charger maintainers, which took a few hours to get the bank as a whole back up to around the 13.8 range before that unit went into float mode. Once again, with the INV/Charger on, with charge mode on I drew the bank down to around the 12.2 range and once again the charger never would come on. Up until this discovery of a few days ago, it would always go into charge mode in and around 12.25 or a bit higher.

As stated, the inverter is still doing its job, but for some reason the charge circuit is not starting when it should. At the moment, I have a 2/6/10A maintainer attached to a shore power receptacle and the coach bank, as long as the shore or gen power is running, the bank should stay charged as needed. Will give me time to research all my options for replacement. As its 21 years old, this like so many other age related things are probably just due. I am planning to replace my batteries with LI when they need to be changed, just wanting to make sure whatever route I go is also compatible with LI.

Re: Inverter/Charger bad charger?

Reply #6 – June 20, 2022, 08:48:02 am

Quote from: mkc1962 – June 20, 2022, 08:30:00 am

I am planning to replace my batteries with LI when they need to be changed, just wanting to make sure whatever route I go is also compatible with LI.

Should not be a problem. I think you will find most modern high quality inverter/chargers have a built-in charger setting specifically for lithium batteries.

Re: Inverter/Charger bad charger?

Reply #7 – June 20, 2022, 10:25:09 am

Mike,

Sounds like you have done the proper diagnostics.

Re: Inverter/Charger bad charger?

Reply #8 – June 21, 2022, 02:01:59 pm

Victon Multiplus 3000VA/120/70 and all the pieces on its way....one more hot summer project to add to the list.

Re: Inverter/Charger bad charger?

Reply #9 – October 04, 2023, 09:12:07 pm

Mike,

Did a new inverter fix your issue? - I am having the same issue - engine charges house batteries..... Genny does not .

Charge light option on panel can not be selected.

What inverter did you go with? If that was the issue?

Re: Inverter/Charger bad charger?

Reply #10 – October 05, 2023, 07:49:38 am

Quote from: jcarbone2366 – October 04, 2023, 09:12:07 pm

Mike,

I am having the same issue - engine charges house batteries..... Genny does not .

Charge light option on panel can not be selected.

Jim,

What inverter/charger do you have?

Have you verified 120 VAC to the inverter/charger? Many also have a fuse for incoming 120 VAC.

Also, is house battery bank a minimum of high 11's VDC when the inverter/charger should start charging-- if battery voltage too low, a smart charger will not attempt to charge.

And, if remote panel, you might disconnect it (unplug the telephone-style plug at the inverter itself) for a few minutes to see if a reset happens.

Re: Inverter/Charger bad charger?

Reply #11 – October 05, 2023, 08:16:59 am

Quote from: jcarbone2366 – October 04, 2023, 09:12:07 pm

I am having the same issue - engine charges house batteries..... Genny does not .
Charge light option on panel can not be selected.

So house batteries will not charge using generator...

How about when you are on shore power? Will the battery charger work when your coach is plugged in?

If answer is "Yes" then you could have a malfunctioning ATS (the one that switches between shore power and generator).

Re: Inverter/Charger bad charger?

Reply #12 – October 05, 2023, 02:23:38 pm

All fixed Keith R help with a phone call to me! - he's a great resource

Simple breaker flipped

Genny - charging batteries
Shore power - charging batteries
Solar - charging batteries

Re: Inverter/Charger bad charger?

Reply #13 – October 05, 2023, 03:27:09 pm

Quote from: jcarbone2366 – October 05, 2023, 02:23:38 pm

Simple breaker flipped

Which breaker???

The on-generator breakers? Main breaker in 120 VAC breaker box? Breaker in main breaker box for inverter? Other?

Re: Inverter/Charger bad charger?

Reply #14 – October 05, 2023, 09:12:41 pm

The foot of the bed - charger breaker in the panel

Re: Inverter/Charger bad charger?

Reply #15 – October 07, 2023, 10:24:08 am

Quote from: jcarbone2366 – October 04, 2023, 09:12:07 pm

Mike,

Did a new inverter fix your issue? - I am having the same issue - engine charges house batteries..... Genny does not .

Charge light option on panel can not be selected.

What inverter did you go with? If that was the issue?

Odd this came up as I am in the middle of a few days of doing things I want to do before another road trip...one might be to get this MP installed... As of today I have still not installed the new Multiplus......Why not?, was incredibly busy this time last year prepping for retirement, and this year as retired have not got too it yet. What I did for the interim, I bought a Victron stand alone charger that takes care of the charger part that had quit.When I install the Multiplus, will mount this charger as a backup for if the other ever fails again. As stated my old inverter still works as it should, just the charge side of it quit.

I might add, based on your comment. I keep my Victron stand alone charger plugged into the 110vac plug in my basement, when the gen runs, its also keeping the house batteries charged. I have the charging leads temp placed on top of the main + / - lugs at the main DC distribution center. Been working great with no issues for a year now.

Re: Inverter/Charger bad charger?

Reply #16 – March 01, 2024, 11:37:59 am

Guess the coach is protesting. During Quartzite Peter had travel through and overnighted at our place. I had unplugged the coach and got side tracked and never plugged back in. Came out a couple days ago to find the generator running, left in auto. House batteries not charging? Still has the Prosine 2.5. inverter works but Charger was not. Put house batteries on shop charger. Trouble shot prosine to have a 001 fault, overtemp battery. This is done by holding reset button for like six seconds to enter test. Attempted reset using reset procedures no help both powered up OFF and with negative wire removed as recommended. Searched history and found several things but nothing much. Googled and found a Foretravel article back in 2000 I think by Gary about them but little info on my problem. Searched and found Temperature sensor part number and ordered one through amazon. The entire manual is in the media section. Sensor to show up Sunday so hopefully I'll have it fixed then or will order a stand alone charger till I order a new Victron Multi inverter. Thanks Mike for your information prior. Really help work threw it on mine.

Amazon.com: Xantrex 809-0946 Battery Temp Sensor for Freedom SW : Automotive

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: Inverter/Charger bad charger?

Reply #17 – March 01, 2024, 01:48:32 pm

So I had not found were the battery temp monitor was located. Manual says it's mounted on the battery post or glued to the side of the battery. Mine is neither. At this pount I really don't think mine would get accurate readings. Still curious were it is. After I test to see that is the problem I'll unload the compartment and follow the wires. Just curious if anyone knows. Thanks Scott

Re: Inverter/Charger bad charger?

Reply #18 – March 01, 2024, 03:53:15 pm

Maybe you don't have one. I have only have seen them on the post or tape to the side.
If your batteries are completely dead modern chargers won't charge them.

Re: Inverter/Charger bad charger?

Reply #19 – March 01, 2024, 04:22:44 pm

Quote from: dsd – March 01, 2024, 01:48:32 pm

So I had not found were the battery temp monitor was located. Manual says it's mounted on the battery post or glued to the side of the battery. Mine is neither. At this pount I really don't think mine would get accurate readings. Still curious were it is. After I test to see that is the problem I'll unload the compartment and follow the wires. Just curious if anyone knows. Thanks Scott

Scott,

I was going to see could I find mine that I know the phone type line IS going into my coach battery area.....did you ever determine if you had a similar line going that way on yours?..As we spoke about last night. BUT, Raining very heavy here today and would have to move the coach out in the soaked field to access it. If I get to it this weekend, will reply or give you a call. Let me know if you do find yours. Mike

Re: Inverter/Charger bad charger?

Reply #20 – March 01, 2024, 09:33:52 pm

Yes I have a wire plugged into the battery temperature sensor heading into the harness. No clue yet were it goes. I kinda think it is a bad charging circuit, but will test just in case it will fix it. Inverter works normally

Re: Inverter/Charger bad charger?

Reply #21 – March 02, 2024, 08:45:50 pm

Got sensor today. Was surprised at its size. Will install tomorrow

SPLIT: Progressive unit flashing 8's

Reply #22 – March 03, 2024, 10:11:40 pm

One or more of the messages of this topic have been moved to Foretravel Tech Talk - https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=47596.0 - different subject

Re: Inverter/Charger bad charger?

Reply #23 – March 04, 2024, 11:04:54 am

So installed new battery temp sensor and reset Prosine by all the methods in the manual. NO HELP. Ordered a Victron 30 amp Bluetooth battery charger as a patch for now and will eventually retire it to my shop battery charger group. I guess ive put off Battery purchase decisions almost as long as possible. Was planning on the Victron Multi but will hold off till I have decided what batteries I can tolerate. Will also work into the decision any future solar needs. I dont cold boondock much and normally need the AC during our stay.

Re: Inverter/Charger bad charger?

Reply #24 – March 04, 2024, 10:42:40 pm

So is a 30 amp dedicated charger be enough to fill the void left by my Prosine 2.5 ? Looks like the Prosine was a 100 amp charger

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