Slide problems Old subject new request

Topic: Slide problems Old subject new request (Read 922 times) previous topic - next topic

Slide problems Old subject new request

July 04, 2022, 01:01:26 pm

I know there are a lot of threads for this subject, but most are old. I am having a very frustrating time trying to diagnose/repair my manifolds and system

I have a 2007 42' with 4 slides

right now my slides wont activate at all, the yellow flashes on the front controller, but wont stop flashing, so the slides wont go out. i have checked everything i can from the other threads about this subject and I cannot find any "competent" technicians in the northwest (wash, ore, ida) So im trying to figure this out on my own.

i did find several air leaks and fixed those (i think) but now cant get the slides to work at all?

i see threads about rebuilding the manifolds, but im not sure if i should try this or anyone other than HWH does this rebuilding?

1. are the solenoids only available from HWH?
2. I see threads that mention "6-pack" repair kits, but don't know if those are still available? and where
3. i had to replace the air separation systm, and removed the normally on solenoid at the bottom of the first stage, is this REQUIRED for the system to operate? i don't see it with any signal in the schematic? so i thought it wasn't needed?

note, i have also checked all the seals and they are retracting correctly as far as i can tell.

Any other suggestions for figuring this out?

thanks for any help

Re: Slide problems Old subject new request

Reply #1 – July 04, 2022, 02:06:22 pm

So this can be caused by many things. On my coach I have installed pressure/vacuum combination gauges so I can visually see what is happening in the system and individual zones. I also have a bladder supply tank pressure indicator. With out this info I'm unable to go to the next phase of troubleshooting, only guesses like everyone else. A failing aux compressor will not have enough pressure/volume to operate your vacuum pump to retract seals. Info on what you repaired may also be helpful to figure out what has been disturbed.

Re: Slide problems Old subject new request

Reply #2 – July 04, 2022, 02:32:58 pm

Can't help as I don't have slides but, 6 packs have nothing to do with them so don't search there. You may still get more help here from someone with your system. Use Google and maybe another forum might help.

Re: Slide problems Old subject new request

Reply #3 – July 04, 2022, 02:56:43 pm

So I found that the 6-packs are for the leveling, so I see that wont help.

I have replaced the air separator system (2 stage) but did not reinstall the solenoid at the bottom of the for the first stage. (didnt think it was needed?

I have used constant shop air to see if the compressor is failing, no help

i have checked the lights to make sure the bulbs are working and they are (front yellow flashes but wont stop, rear will not come on now)

I have cleaned some of the solenoids (best i can) to see if that would help.

the small flat vacuum "switch" seems to let air out continuously and does not stop letting air our?

any ideas would help.

Re: Slide problems Old subject new request

Reply #4 – July 04, 2022, 05:21:40 pm

If the yellow light is always flashing when the key is on, and the vacuum solenoid is constantly expelling air, it sounds like it cannot make the vacuum required to stop the vacuum process and make the light go solid. How much pressure do you have to the solenoids from the tank? 65psi or more should do it, but maybe more is needed to overcome a leak?

Re: Slide problems Old subject new request

Reply #5 – July 04, 2022, 07:59:49 pm

I think that the "small black vacuum switch" you reference is simply a venturi not a switch. The air will continue to flow through it as long as the system is calling for vacuum.

The solenoids are what control the flow of air on my manifold (to inflate) the bladder or to (deflate) the bladder using the venturi. On my single slide, there are two solenoids. One is identical to the six-pack solenoids and one is slightly different. Both can be rebuilt but each requires different parts.

Studying the HWH manual can help understand how the system works.

Sorry but I have no suggestions on your specific problem.

Rich

Re: Slide problems Old subject new request

Reply #6 – July 04, 2022, 08:33:44 pm

Until you can see what your system is doing guessing will only cost money and lead you nowhere.
Air pressure available?
Vacuum pressure available during extend /retract activated slide control key ON?
Yes the vacuum generator is that black square on your control valve. It leaks air to produce vacuum during use.
Have you tried shutting off all but one of your slide to help isolate troubleshooting. Shut off valve on each control valve

Re: Slide problems Old subject new request

Reply #7 – July 04, 2022, 08:58:05 pm

I believe there is a way to bypass/ test? ... is there a dial on the side of the hwh box? bypass?

I also lost operation of slides once.. Had a tech come out.. One of my controls are 3 boards stacked.... Bottom board had a blown 3 amp fuse. Didnt realize it had 3 motherboards stacked so he separated them and found the fuse blown out.

Re: Slide problems Old subject new request

Reply #8 – July 04, 2022, 09:06:32 pm

Quote from: NevadaBornRvR – July 04, 2022, 08:58:05 pm

I believe there is a way to bypass/ test? ... is there a dial on the side of the hwh box? bypass?

I also lost operation of slides once.. Had a tech come out.. One of my controls are 3 boards stacked.... Bottom board had a blown 3 amp fuse. Didnt realize it had 3 motherboards stacked so he separated them and found the fuse blown out.

There is a bypass switch inside but that is to enable transmission operation without a stowed slide. Yes there is a bunch of fuses inside the HWH control box and there are a few hidden fuses but the have failed indicator LEDs on them to show good or bad, but the circuit has to be active to read them

Re: Slide problems Old subject new request

Reply #9 – July 04, 2022, 09:38:11 pm

I have read the manual thoroughly and still am running into some issues.

Thanks to everyone for the advice, spent much of today trying different scenarios and I was able to get the slides in and out. however, the rear slide is back to the original issue and that is a delay in activating. seems like something is causing it to not activate the first time and so after several attempts it will go in or out. the whole issue seems to boil down to air problems. I'm not sure the pump is working correctly, when I'm on shop air the system works better, but still the delay in one rear slide activating.

so bladders all compress as designed

with shop air (I made a bypass adapter to run shop air so the compressor wouldn't run all the time during testing) the system seems to work correctly, but not totally sure other than the slides will go in and out except the driver side rear, which delays as mentioned above. after disconnecting the shop air, system holds air pressure for hours if not activating slides.

I pulled apart some of the components on the manifold and cleaned them and that seems to have helped some. some of the vacuum solenoids had some corrosion, so cleaned that up and it helped some. I'm thinking that the vacuum switch on the rear slide may be the culprit?

are there any alternatives to HWH vacuum switches?

but still looking for any ideas

thanks again, all your comments have been helpful

Re: Slide problems Old subject new request

Reply #10 – July 04, 2022, 11:22:21 pm

Hello,

FYI, I wrote most of the following before your last post. Glad to hear it's mostly working.

I don't know what size compressor you have in your shop, but I assume the shop air system can move a lot more air than the HWH compressor can and would also assume the higher volume and possibly higher pressure would create more vacuum and that the HWH system would act more responsive with the higher pressure/volume. Don't know of other sources for the vacuum switches.

I don't know about the normally on solenoid at the bottom of the first stage (that you removed), bit if things changed after that, I'd put it back.

Regarding rear control panel light not coming on at all, I recently had that problem (mine was intermittent). I found that jiggling the key would get the light to start flashing. I removed the control panel and found the switch wasn't assembled tightly. I couldn't fix the switch and didn't want to try and replace the switch , so bought a new panel from FT ($114 less 10% club discount in March of 2022).

Twice I have had problems with the yellow light continuing to flash, but it was only happening on one slide, the other slides worked fine. Both times, replacing the vacuum switch fixed it. I've bought vacuum switches from both HWH and FT. FT was more $, but can't say how much because the purchases were years apart so inflation was a factor. FT charged $92 less 10% club discount in Sept of 2019.

FT had me try these things when the yellow light wouldn't stop flashing:

1.   With the yellow light flashing, disconnect the plug for the vacuum switch and jump the wires of the plug. The yellow light should go steady. If it doesn't go steady, I'd call FT or HWH. Reconnect the vacuum switch.

2. Disconnect the airline that goes to the slide seal, turn on the switch, hold your finger over the hole on the manifold where the airline connects. You should feel a vacuum on you finger. Does the light stop flashing. If it does, you probably have an air leak. If it doesn't, the vacuum switch is bad, or you don't have enough vacuum. Reconnect the air line.

3. With the switch on and the seal retracted, tap on the vacuum switch. Does the light stop flashing? If so, FT says to replace the vacuum switch.

I saved my old vacuum switch after the first repair, thinking I would disassemble it and clean it and save it for a spare. After taking it apart, I realized that it would require a vacuum source and vacuum gauge to assemble it properly. I believe the farther you screw them back together, the less vacuum it will take to activate the switch.

Good luck and please post the fix when you've got it.

Re: Slide problems Old subject new request

Reply #11 – July 05, 2022, 11:45:12 am

The current wait time for a call from HWH support is about 3 weeks. I'd get your name on the list now and if you resolve before then, you can call and take it off.

Re: Slide problems Old subject new request

Reply #12 – July 05, 2022, 06:22:30 pm

The solenoid on the bottom of the first filter bowl is the pressure relief/drain. It is open when no power is applied, which will drain any moisture in that filter bowl, and release the pressure between the pump and last filter check valve, so the pump doesn't have to start against pressure.

When you say there is a delay in the rear slide, do you mean between when you press the extend/retract button and when the pump actually runs and starts moving the slide? If so, that's normal. The system re-engages the vacuum generator when you press the button and again waits to hit its vacuum point before moving the slide. This is so if you turned the key, it dumped the pressure in the bladder and vacuumed it, but then returned to ambient pressure, the bladder has now extended back to it's resting position. When you press the extend/retract, it will vacuum again to pull the bladder away from the slide while moving.

Re: Slide problems Old subject new request

Reply #13 – July 05, 2022, 11:22:27 pm

Quote from: dsd – July 04, 2022, 09:06:32 pm

T Yes there is a bunch of fuses inside the HWH control box and there are a few hidden fuses but the have failed indicator LEDs on them to show good or bad

[/b]

Not necessarily ... The board is burred so you cant see the lights.. You have to take the top 2 board off the 3rds face so anything can be seen or tested.. Took the guy about an hour with HWH walking him through the checks and balances.. He never knew they was stacked and I never noticed but they drilled it down over the phone and testing components and fuses.

Re: Slide problems Old subject new request

Reply #14 – July 06, 2022, 11:55:32 am

Quote from: WS6_Keith – July 05, 2022, 06:22:30 pm

The solenoid on the bottom of the first filter bowl is the pressure relief/drain. It is open when no power is applied, which will drain any moisture in that filter bowl, and release the pressure between the pump and last filter check valve, so the pump doesn't have to start against pressure.

When you say there is a delay in the rear slide, do you mean between when you press the extend/retract button and when the pump actually runs and starts moving the slide? If so, that's normal. The system re-engages the vacuum generator when you press the button and again waits to hit its vacuum point before moving the slide. This is so if you turned the key, it dumped the pressure in the bladder and vacuumed it, but then returned to ambient pressure, the bladder has now extended back to it's resting position. When you press the extend/retract, it will vacuum again to pull the bladder away from the slide while moving.

thanks again for all the suggestions, I know there is a normal delay in activating after the transfer from oine side to the other. in the case of the DS rear slide, after extending the PS rear slide, the time to wait for the DS side can most times be many minutes, perhaps needing to be reset several times before finally activating. sometimes it won't activate at all, and the procedure must be started again. several times it took 20-30 minutes to finally get it to extend or retract?

Re: Slide problems Old subject new request

Reply #15 – July 06, 2022, 03:30:27 pm

I only have 2 slides, so maybe you have more going on than I do. Are you sure the reservoir is full of fluid? I think you have to check that with all slides closed too.

Re: Slide problems Old subject new request

Reply #16 – July 06, 2022, 05:43:18 pm

With my two slide coach, the bedroom slide must be open to get an accurate reading of the oil. Says so in the manual.

Re: Slide problems Old subject new request

Reply #17 – July 06, 2022, 06:48:09 pm

Quote from: philipmw – July 06, 2022, 11:55:32 am

thanks again for all the suggestions, I know there is a normal delay in activating after the transfer from oine side to the other. in the case of the DS rear slide, after extending the PS rear slide, the time to wait for the DS side can most times be many minutes, perhaps needing to be reset several times before finally activating. sometimes it won't activate at all, and the procedure must be started again. several times it took 20-30 minutes to finally get it to extend or retract?

Vacuum indicated pressure will give in-site to time delay
Could be a leak in bladder, weak aux compressor, need this info to go father.

Re: Slide problems Old subject new request

Reply #18 – July 06, 2022, 09:08:42 pm

So update, after the kind suggestions from Joe G I found out the issue is an inconsistent faulty vacuum switch. after shutting off the other manifolds I tried another vacuum switch and the slide worked fine, so I have ordered a couple vacuum switches from HWH so i have a backup. Also dug into the "back" control board and found the fuse for the yellow flashing light was blown, now the light works (PS; HATE, HATE, HATE the stacked control boxes, still can't figure out how to get the gasket all the way around the lip and sealed. The clear outer one is hard enough but the inner one is really the pits)
anyway, thanks to all the good advice and suggestions, you all sent me looking for things I might not have looked for before.

I still have some additional investigation to do, after the slides go in or out, there is a funny "gurgling" sound coming from one of the manifolds (front DS I'm pretty sure) but I'm not sure which component is making the sound. It clearly causing a small air leak as well, so still have to figure that out if anyone has an idea?

I also will be replacing the auxiliary air pump. I think the original one is wimpy and maybe failing, so now studying the options. i love the one post for the updated pump set up. but I don't think I have the skill or patience to build one like that, although i would love to have one. Don't think he will be selling them?

Thanks again

Re: Slide problems Old subject new request

Reply #19 – July 07, 2022, 10:30:27 am

The gurgling from the manifold is air going through the regulator. If this doesn't stop once the pressure hits the target, this indicates a leak.

Re: Slide problems Old subject new request

Reply #20 – July 07, 2022, 12:18:58 pm

Thanks Keith, its kind of funny, if I turn off the incoming valve to that manifold, then turn it back on the "gurgling" stops and the system doesn't lose much air. (except I think the "6-packs" are leaking a little, because with the slide system isolated the air still leaks out so the air come on about 3-4 times a day. it runs the same with the slide system open as well, so I'm thinking leak in the leveling system or "6-packs" in any case its not bad so I'm scheduling a service to check the air leaks in the air bags/leveling system.

also Keith, I sent you a PM, did you get it?

thanks

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