U225 - U300 coaches

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U225 - U300 coaches

October 12, 2022, 02:56:37 pm

Would someone mind providing a brain dump of the U225 - U300 series from the early 90s? I'm particularly interested in how they differ mechanically from the late 90s - early 2000s coaches (like mine). Any maintenance items to worry about besides all things rubber? Like bulkheads etc?

My interest in them is for a possible Baja/Alaska rig... something that I can worry less about off pavement and comfortably self-insure in Mexico. A "dock smasher" as Scott would call it.

Re: U225 - U300 coaches

Reply #1 – October 12, 2022, 04:07:36 pm

Best of the bunch for reliability, towing and having a Jake are the 1992 through 1994 U300 models. The heavy duty garbage truck HD746 Allison came out in 1992 but is a four speed with lock up part way through 2nd gear. 350hp is on all 1992 on with excellent torque low end. They are 102" wide from 1992 on (U300/U280). Ours has averaged 8.0 mpg of the 120K since new using the ProLink on the ECU. 36 feet is hard to beat for the Western states and Baja. The 2 cycle is sewing machine smooth with zero vibration from idle to max RPM (2130). The 92 series Detroit we have is electronic but very reliable. The only more reliable engine in the world is the 71 series, all mechanical, dry liners. This is a very popular engine and fitted to many models of Mexican buses so parts south of the border are not a problem plus it's happy with any diesel fuel.

Down side is a very poor "wanna be" block heater that is not in the normal Detroit location and is not very effective. Easy to fix with normal or external block heater. Cooling is complex like all the late coaches and is marginal on ours on summer grades. It uses over twice the amount of air compared to a U280 so the air cleaner has to be replaced more often. The air intake is right behind the rear wheels until part way through 1993 models so must be modified especially if going down Baja. This is the world's worst air intake location and is on all GVs until late '93. Hydraulic belt for the pump and motors was never aligned properly at Foretravel so needs to be addressed or overheating the engine is a possibility. 30 minutes with minimum tools is all that is needed. The engine lives forever if a low ash oil is used like Delo 100. Never a multigrade oil. Insuring that the PO has done this is important.

Ours has be almost trouble free since we bought it in 2008 with only two airbags that developed leaks and a few fuses, etc. This does not include tires, batteries, oil changes, etc. and optional things like solar, TVs, etc.

Finding a rust/corrosion free early model will take a lot of searching and expect to pay a premium for a good one. We looked for over a year.

We don't have any collision insurance in Mexico and just take our chances. Driver's license liability costs only $100/yr for US$300K.

Pierce

Re: U225 - U300 coaches

Reply #2 – October 12, 2022, 04:11:44 pm

For Baja or other "narrow road destinations", consider a narrow body.

That would be the older ORED's, U225 and U240 (except 1995 U240 which was a 102").

There were many very narrow roads we drove in Mexico where we were happy to be in a 96" wide coach.

Agree with Pierce-- KISS theory coaches work for us as well, particularly when traveling well off the beaten path.

Re: U225 - U300 coaches

Reply #3 – October 12, 2022, 04:14:55 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – October 12, 2022, 04:11:44 pm

That would be the older ORED's, U225 and U240 (except 1995 U240 which was a 102").

Are these on airbags still? What years specifically?

Re: U225 - U300 coaches

Reply #4 – October 12, 2022, 04:17:31 pm

225/240 were 96" wide all but the last few bult. They all have Torsilastic spring systems and there are a lot of parts available south of the border. The last year had the world trans. but there isn't a problem with the 4 speed either as there is a lot of shade tree people can fix one of them without a computer. Build quality is the same as all built during that time frame.

The 300s are basically the same frame as what you have in your coach with the same issues that you are aware of.

If we were to be headed deep south (even to Panama or south on the Pan American hwy. if the ferry is still running) the 240 would be the coach of choice with the 3208 Cat. engine.

Mike

Re: U225 - U300 coaches

Reply #5 – October 12, 2022, 04:42:41 pm

Quote from: Elliott – October 12, 2022, 02:56:37 pm

Would someone mind providing a brain dump of the U225 - U300 series from the early 90s? I'm particularly interested in how they differ mechanically from the late 90s - early 2000s coaches (like mine). Any maintenance items to worry about besides all things rubber? Like bulkheads etc? The new beam alarm website is sparse on info.

My interest in them is for a possible Baja/Alaska rig... something that I can worry less about off pavement and comfortably self-insure in Mexico. A "dock smasher" as Scott would call it.

Elliott...."off Pavement " for GV style coach is iffy. OK ya'll beat me up.

Hans

Re: U225 - U300 coaches

Reply #6 – October 12, 2022, 05:05:04 pm

Take my word for it a GV ORED will go where you want to go.
For those of you familiar with Tucson, driving east on Tanque Verde you come to Redington pass and this is the top. Next is the 40+ miles of dirt road to I-10.
My windshield has zero movement and maybe it's the REAL tensile steel chassis I have rather than the questionable space frame in the U series. Jacks are more capable when boondocking but that's just my opinion.
The people in jeeps and such were a little wide eyed when they met up with me.

Re: U225 - U300 coaches

Reply #7 – October 12, 2022, 05:26:26 pm

Quote from: Elliott – October 12, 2022, 02:56:37 pm

Would someone mind providing a brain dump of the U225 - U300 series from the early 90s? I'm particularly interested in how they differ mechanically from the late 90s - early 2000s coaches (like mine).

Elliott, our 1992 U225 is a UniHome so we have the chance of the same bulkhead issues as do you. What we give up is height in the through bays. The rest is the same as any other 36' Grand Villa.
What we gain, is we eliminate the possibility of a sudden suspension failure, and the same goes for the engine. No air bags, no computer.
But it's still a low rider.

Re: U225 - U300 coaches

Reply #8 – October 12, 2022, 05:38:12 pm

The very high seating position of the U280/U300 with the 102" width can be a little intimidating at first but after a short time, you get used to it so you don't even think about it. The difference is only 6 inches but that can seem like a lot heading down Baja 1 in some places where there is no shoulder, big trucks are coming at you without slowing down plus there may not be a center line to judge your place in your lane. I find the difference between 36 and 40 feet is more important difference than width. Much easier to scrape the bottom going from highway to village dirt roads.

I remember well a trip to buy furniture in Juarez with my old ex-Greyhound. It was 35 feet but going down a narrow street, I came to a T intersection where I had to (and I counted) back and turn 13 times before I could make the corner, all with no power steering. The extra 4 feet can be big with a toad behind in small towns.

With no waves to speak of, the beaches in Baja or the mainland for couple hundred miles, are usually rock hard and can be driven on right down to the water's edge. A lower (in height) U225 or U240 will be lighter and will navigate beach access roads easier. On the other hand, Baja with many miles between towns and fuel opportunities makes carrying a spare tire a must so the taller compartments make it easy to R&R the spare. Taller compartments also mean it's easier to carry a couple of inflatable kayaks.

Inflation and sticker shock have not hit Mexico nearly as hard as here. With an RV, the parks and restaurants are a fraction of what we find here and the cost of towing is not a big percentage of what your coach is worth if you don't have CoachNet. We just got back from 2 trips the last month in California by car with restaurant prices making us lose our appetite before even going in. Not much diesel under $6/gallon so you really have to make friends with Gas Buddy before filling over 100 gallons.

Pierce

Re: U225 - U300 coaches

Reply #9 – October 12, 2022, 06:09:50 pm

Elliott, I have a 1994 102", 6V92 Detroit, 4 speed Allison, that was built in October of 1993. The best operating coach that I have ever owned. these coaches do not like to "Off Road" as that the twisting, turning, and torque, is very stressful on the substructure if there is any delamination of the surface materials, minor flexing can be handled pretty good. As far as the drive train the Detroit/Allison set-up, with a Jake Brake, can not be beat. (in My opinion) We have had Our coach for over 15 years and have traveled from the State of Florida to New England, through the upper U.S.A to Idaho then down to Arizona, and back to Florida, covering 46 of the continental United States. Virtually trouble free. I only use Delo 100 40 wt or Shell T100 40 wt Oil per Detroit engine Specification. Find a Good One and you will not be disappointed..

Re: U225 - U300 coaches

Reply #10 – October 12, 2022, 06:59:23 pm

Gerry, do you have the modified air intake with the tube running in front of the radiator and then turning up so the intake gets clean air?

Pierce

Re: U225 - U300 coaches

Reply #11 – October 12, 2022, 07:24:01 pm

I don't now, but our 95 with 3176B Cat does all we want...super power , awesome mileage and that kitty purrr is pure joy @ 1600 rpm....Gotta go in the left lane for these slowpokes...

Re: U225 - U300 coaches

Reply #12 – October 12, 2022, 07:41:53 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – October 12, 2022, 06:59:23 pm

Gerry, do you have the modified air intake with the tube running in front of the radiator and then turning up so the intake gets clean air?

Pierce

No, However I did increase my air intake by opening up the air box that encloses the "Cone" air filter. I cut a 6"x10" hole in the sheet metal that faces the outside wall of the compartment and place a 1/4" screen over it to allow more air into the dirty side of the filter. I think it helps a little...

Re: U225 - U300 coaches

Reply #13 – October 13, 2022, 09:41:23 am

Quote from: Gerry Vicha – October 12, 2022, 06:09:50 pm

Elliott, I have a 1994 102", 6V92 Detroit, 4 speed Allison, that was built in October of 1993. The best operating coach that I have ever owned. these coaches do not like to "Off Road" as that the twisting, turning, and torque, is very stressful on the substructure if there is any delamination of the surface materials, minor flexing can be handled pretty good. As far as the drive train the Detroit/Allison set-up, with a Jake Brake, can not be beat.

Gerry? Mr. Vicha? This Elliott asking about early Grand Villas is THE ELLIOTT! Elliott the test pilot. The Elliott who while trying to camp with some friends, hung the diagonal wheels of his U320 in the air sort of the arm chair coach driver's "Hang 10," and found the limits of the Foretravel air bag suspension.

PS The air inlet for my Cummins 5.9 is right behind the rear tires.

Re: U225 - U300 coaches

Reply #14 – October 13, 2022, 10:03:59 am

Old Toolmaker,

That was a strange event and one that would be hard to duplicate. We go through stuff like that all the time and have never had the slightest suspension problem.

Pierce

Re: U225 - U300 coaches

Reply #15 – October 13, 2022, 10:33:06 am

No Foretravel is going to be a good boondocking rig, but something shorter and lighter would be a welcomed change in Baja. Having fewer complicated systems to worry about and an overall lower cost of entry would make for more confidence going to questionable places. To be honest, I'm not sure that there's a better value out there right now. You can hardly buy a diesel truck in the same price point, much less an RV to go with it. And even then, you're stuck with SOB quality.

I love our U320 and it's not going anywhere, but something smaller and less expensive for "camping" and exploring would be a nice compliment.

Re: U225 - U300 coaches

Reply #16 – October 13, 2022, 10:49:46 am

Elliot, you want simple?? Wait a couple years and our 1989 36' GV with low mileage will probably be on the market.
All mechanical, no computers, no slides, no Aquahot, and 36' long and 96" wide.
Even comes with heated outside mirrors if you run into freezing temps in Mexico!!

Re: U225 - U300 coaches

Reply #17 – October 13, 2022, 10:56:36 am

Quote from: nitehawk – October 13, 2022, 10:49:46 am

Elliot, you want simple?? Wait a couple years and our 1989 36' GV with low mileage will probably be on the market.
All mechanical, no computers, no slides, no Aquahot, and 36' long and 96" wide.
Even comes with heated outside mirrors if you run into freezing temps in Mexico!!

Let's talk when that time comes!

Re: U225 - U300 coaches

Reply #18 – October 13, 2022, 11:01:26 am

A torsion suspension is more forgiving of an uneven surface than any airbag system is capable of.

Re: U225 - U300 coaches

Reply #19 – October 13, 2022, 11:09:33 am

Quote from: Old Toolmaker – October 12, 2022, 05:26:26 pm

Elliott, our 1992 U225 is a UniHome so we have the chance of the same bulkhead issues as do you.

Are all of them from the early 90s the same way? Are they all "Unihomes"? Trying to understand if that's a distinction I need to be aware or if they're all susceptible to bulkhead issues.

Re: U225 - U300 coaches

Reply #20 – October 13, 2022, 11:19:28 am

Elliot
As stated in other post, "all Unihomes are GrandVillas" but not all GrandVillas are Unihomes.

As you know, Unicoaches and Unihomes are of monocoque construction. "Semi-monocoque" if you're a purist.

Re: U225 - U300 coaches

Reply #21 – October 13, 2022, 11:50:27 am

Quote from: Elliott – October 13, 2022, 11:09:33 am

Are all of them from the early 90s the same way? Are they all "Unihomes"? Trying to understand if that's a distinction I need to be aware or if they're all susceptible to bulkhead issues.

The Unihomes have a repairable rust issue. The OREDs do not. But with the ORED rail chassis you lose space to the rails. With the Unihome design the weight bearing structure is in the side walls. And much stiffer than a rail or high rail design.

And yes, torsion bars are awesome.

Re: U225 - U300 coaches

Reply #22 – October 13, 2022, 11:51:42 am

Quote from: Elliott – October 13, 2022, 11:48:07 am

Not sure we'll have time yet but my wife is pushing for it.

Well that has been decided.

FWIW there is a company in Nashua, NH that makes air supported tents. Not balloons with air locks, but inflated ribs.

Re: U225 - U300 coaches

Reply #23 – October 14, 2022, 07:59:28 am

Elliot
I'm heading to Tenn this morning to look at a low mileage 22' chieftain ..... for the exact reasons you mentioned above....
I'm sure I'll be disappointed by quality of build, but at less then 11,000 mile and stored indoors for 30 plus years, should be a interesting look see.

David

Re: U225 - U300 coaches

Reply #24 – October 14, 2022, 12:36:54 pm

Quote from: Elliott – October 14, 2022, 11:01:15 am

A semi-permanent spot in Baja to park the rig isn't a bad idea. We probably need to spend a couple more winters down there exploring until we figure out where we'd want to be but I like the idea... it's pretty low risk

Baja used to be a Winter destination since being teenager by bus, motorcycle, p/u's and rv's. For me a 4x4 truck and trailer worked best for off pavement travel and camping comfortably in remote area's and beaches. Would like to start spending the cold months down there again especially since Mex5 is finished. Quartzite would be a good meeting up place for a Foretravel caravan this Winter, I can think of a few that would be interested.

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