HWH still having problems

Topic: HWH still having problems (Read 1145 times) previous topic - next topic

HWH still having problems

October 23, 2022, 10:52:37 pm

As I have been away from my coach for a few months, I have not had the "pleasure" of troubleshooting my HWW issues. To recap, here's what's happening.

2003 U320

LEVELING
- HWH leveling panel turns on as normal
- I'm able to raise the front of the coach
- When I press the up arrow to raise the rear, I hear a click coming from somewhere under the coach but the bags do not inflate
- When I press the up arrow to raise the left or right side, only the front bags inflate

SLIDES
- I am able to retract and extend the front slide
- When I turn on the HWH control for the rear slide I hear a click, but the yellow light does not stop flashing
- Unable to retract rear slide

Another issue I have is that my safety blocks are in place and I can't raise the coach to remove them.

Any thoughts on where I might start troubleshooting would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Re: HWH still having problems

Reply #1 – October 23, 2022, 11:14:05 pm

I'm speculating here, and this is a big speculation, but I'm thinking that click you're hearing is one or more solenoids.

If so, that would lead me to think you don't have any air getting delivered to the manifolds for either the airbags in the back or the slide.

That said, the most common culprit for these symptoms is failing solenoids, so that clicking could be something else.

Do you have air pressure in your rear tank?

Re: HWH still having problems

Reply #2 – October 24, 2022, 12:17:00 am

Thinking about this more, if you can hear solenoids clicking, then that means your engine is not running. Do you get the same behavior with the engine running, after letting the coach build pressure for about five minutes?

Re: HWH still having problems

Reply #3 – October 24, 2022, 10:11:24 am

I think Elliott is on the right track. Do you have a gauge on your HWH pump system that shows how much air pressure is in the HWH tank? If so, what does this show?

The flashing light on the bedroom slide with the key on indicates it is not able to pull a vacuum on the bladder. If this bladder doesn't leak, that likely means you don't have air pressure to the bladder solenoid block.

All the diagrams should be available here: Foretravel Motorcoach System Diagrams 2003 – HWH® Corporation

Re: HWH still having problems

Reply #4 – October 24, 2022, 01:00:33 pm

Elliott:
On a conference call in 30 minutes. When I'm finished I start the engine to see if that helps. I''l also check to see if there's air in the rear tank.

I'll report findings in a couple of hours.

Keith:
Thanks for the diagram.

Re: HWH still having problems

Reply #5 – October 24, 2022, 07:52:01 pm

Update:

- Started the engine and let it run for five minutes
- After running for five minutes, the left rear raised enough so that I would be able to remove the safety block

However..when I turned the key for the rear HWH controller, air started dumping from the system. I've attached a picture showing where the air was coming from. After about 30 seconds, with the engine still running, the flashing light went dark. I let the engine run for a few more minutes and then turned it off. This time when I turned the HWH key it still dumped the air, but the yellow light flashed for two minutes before I turned it off.

Grrrrrr

Re: HWH still having problems

Reply #6 – October 24, 2022, 09:33:44 pm

The hole your red arrow is pointing to appears to be the place air would escape when the dump solenoid valve is energized. The center solenoid valves of each six-pack is the down or dump valve.

Could this valve be stuck open?

Re: HWH still having problems

Reply #7 – October 24, 2022, 09:58:33 pm

Trash could be holding it open when running the engine are your are pressure gauges going up to 120... psi.?

Re: HWH still having problems

Reply #8 – October 25, 2022, 12:06:42 pm

Air up the coach and take a broom stick and use it like a pool que to rap on the dump solenoid. If it's stuck you may be able to rattle it loose and stop the air loss.

Re: HWH still having problems

Reply #9 – October 25, 2022, 01:20:57 pm

FOT has told me to try and operate the valve to see if it will clear it's self. So with that said, with engine running, air pressure in the 100's, try raising the rear of the coach and then lowering right away a few times and see if that will stop the leak.

Re: HWH still having problems

Reply #10 – October 26, 2022, 12:51:57 pm

All,

Air in both tanks is at 120psi. Am going to run the engine and hit the dump valve a few times. Will report findings in a couple of hours. Thanks for all of the ideas.

Re: HWH still having problems

Reply #11 – October 26, 2022, 11:43:58 pm

Sorry for the long delay..I had a quick trip come up.

- Air tanks at 120psi
- Engine running
- Able to inflate the front bags
- Rear bags do not inflate

Tapped on the solenoids with a brass hammer
- Rear bags still do not inflate
- Turned on rear HWH panel: 1) yellow light flashes while the air is dumped via the exhaust port on the manifold

Is the consensus that I have a bad solenoid? I'm willing to replace if you guys think that's probably the issue.

If that doesn't fix the issue does anybody have a recommendation for a mobile tech in the Los Angeles area? I need to move my coach back to Colorado before snow starts to fly in the mountains.

Thanks

Re: HWH still having problems

Reply #12 – October 27, 2022, 08:01:21 am

If you are trying to raise the rear there is a solenoid for each side. I find it hard to believe that both died at the same time. Does this coach have Schroeder valves where you could manual add air to the bags?

Re: HWH still having problems

Reply #13 – October 27, 2022, 11:12:02 am

Quote from: turbojack – October 27, 2022, 08:01:21 am

If you are trying to raise the rear there is a solenoid for each side. I find it hard to believe that both died at the same time.

I agree. I would start by checking that all the fuses are seated properly in the control box and that the ground wires are secure on the outside of the box. If those are good, I'd block the coach and pull the wiring harnesses off the backside of the solenoids and test for 12v while the coach is in raise mode. If you have 12v at the plugs, you know you either have bad solenoids or they're jammed up with gunk.

Re: HWH still having problems

Reply #14 – October 27, 2022, 11:28:15 am

BTW... once your safety stands are removed, you should not need the raise solenoids to get home. They are only needed when you're manually adjusting the air bags while parked. When you put the coach into "travel" mode, the two dump solenoids and the two raise solenoids should all be closed, and the travel solenoids should open (top two on the six pack I believe).

Once the travel solenoids are open, the height of your rear bags is controlled by your ride height control valves

Re: HWH still having problems

Reply #15 – October 27, 2022, 01:57:50 pm

Elliott, Turbojack, if the front right corner raises all the way up when in Travel Mode, would that be an indication that maybe the Raise Solenoid is stuck open? The left side does not do this, are there left and right Raise Solenoids for the front?

We are working on a friends coach, and this seems to be happening.

Re: HWH still having problems

Reply #16 – October 27, 2022, 02:03:20 pm

Quote from: MarkC – October 27, 2022, 01:57:50 pm

Elliott, Turbojack, if the front right corner raises all the way up when in Travel Mode, would that be an indication that maybe the Raise Solenoid is stuck open? The left side does not do this, are there left and right Raise Solenoids for the front?

We are working on a friends coach, and this seems to be happening.

What year coach? Typically the raise solenoids are closed when in travel mode and front height is controlled by a single ride-height control valve at the center of the front axle

Re: HWH still having problems

Reply #17 – October 27, 2022, 04:43:59 pm

He has a 2000, U320,
It seems that when he drives it, the right front goes way up compared to the other 3 corners. He can manually set the height with the keypad, but when he goes to Travel Mode, the right front corner goes to 10plus inches between the bag plates. let side stays at 8.5.

I was thinking it could be something in his keypad and was going to swap it with mine to see if it made a difference. Then I saw this post and thought maybe the raise solenoid was sticking open? but wasn't sure if there was one for each side on the front.

Re: HWH still having problems

Reply #18 – October 27, 2022, 04:58:36 pm

Quote from: MarkC – October 27, 2022, 04:43:59 pm

He has a 2000, U320,
It seems that when he drives it, the right front goes way up compared to the other 3 corners. He can manually set the height with the keypad, but when he goes to Travel Mode, the right front corner goes to 10plus inches between the bag plates. let side stays at 8.5.

I was thinking it could be something in his keypad and was going to swap it with mine to see if it made a difference. Then I saw this post and thought maybe the raise solenoid was sticking open? but wasn't sure if there was one for each side on the front.

Assuming he doesn't have one of the rare coaches with IFS, what I'm about to tell you holds true. It's very unlikely that his issue is with the keypad.

On his coach, there is a total of three ride height control valves. One for each corner in the back and a single RHC valve that controls both corners in the front. The front RHC valve is at the center of the axle and delivers air evenly between the two corners. So if you're on uneven ground, it's not uncommon to have one front corner at say 10" and the other at 6" because it's trying to adjust to 8" at the center of the axle. The only way to measure it is on perfectly level ground and I would make sure that's the case first.

Assuming these symptoms present them selves on level ground, I would then check the adjustment on the REAR RHC valves. It's possible that one back corner is set too high and lifting the front from there. After you've ruled that out, the only other explanation I can think of is that one of the raise solenoids is stuck open when in travel mode. In that case, it's possible that air is be delivered to the bag by the RHC valve AND via the raise solenoid. My money is on this being the culprit but I would rule the other two out first since they're easier to test.

If you rule the first two out, swap the raise solenoids around on the six pack and see if the issue follows.

Re: HWH still having problems

Reply #19 – October 27, 2022, 06:32:35 pm

Thanks Elliott, appreciate the response. I was thinking that was the case, but before we started swapping things around, wanted to be sure that each side on front didn't have their own Raise Solenoid.
Rear ride height seems correct, so we'll start looking for solenoid issues.

Thanks again

Re: HWH still having problems

Reply #20 – October 27, 2022, 06:40:09 pm

Quote from: MarkC – October 27, 2022, 06:32:35 pm

wanted to be sure that each side on front didn't have their own Raise Solenoid.

Mark just to be clear, each side DOES have it's own raise solenoid in the front.

When in travel mode, those raise solenoids should be closed (no power going to them). Air is delivered to the bags via different solenoids when in travel mode.

Re: HWH still having problems

Reply #21 – October 27, 2022, 07:16:38 pm

Before swapping parts. With engine running and in neutral. Parking brake on. Dump all air. Then sit and see if the right corner starts to raise up. You can tell in the early stage if the right front bags get tight compared to the rest of them, If air is going in bag, front right solenoid is leaking. If that is the case, push the front raise button. once they air up, push the dump valve. Try this a few times to see if it will clear up the leak. This may fix problem with no parts changing.

Re: HWH still having problems

Reply #22 – October 27, 2022, 07:52:54 pm

Thanks guys, gonna be back at his place on Saturday and will see what we can find.
Appreciate the help.

Re: HWH still having problems

Reply #23 – October 27, 2022, 08:01:31 pm

Aspenpilot

If the engine is running and you have good air pressure, and you can not raise the rear via the travel mode or manual then there is a good possibly a bad HWH board that is running the back 6 pack,

When you have the engine running how often does the air dryer purge?

When gauges show good air pressure and you turn the motor off do you hear any escaping air in the rear area.

After shutting engine off, with key on, and you press the rear raise button, with someone at back of coach while you are pressing the rear raise button, is there any noise coming from around the rear tires?

Re: HWH still having problems

Reply #24 – October 28, 2022, 12:15:09 am

No sure who was responding to me, as the thread went another direction. But...this is the latest:

I'll be back to Los Angeles tomorrow early afternoon at which time I'll get a 12v tester on the wires to see if there's voltage making to the solenoids. Hopefully there is and I just have a couple of bad ones. If not, I'll be looking for a mobile service that understands HWH and Foretravel's.

Brian

Affiliate Notice