New Purchase - Rear Bulkhead Issue

Topic: New Purchase - Rear Bulkhead Issue (Read 2034 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Potential New Purchase - Need Some Help

Reply #25 – December 04, 2022, 07:59:56 pm

To get the full answer, you will need to peel the white FG "bottom" that forms the "underbelly" of the center of the coach until you find good, clean box beam.

But, a good indicator would be to determine how far forward of the wet bay you see RUST JACKING that has "pushed down" the white FG bottom, making the imprint of the box beams more noticeable than further forward.

Said another way, irrespective of that "repair" was performed in the past, you need to dig into the rear bulkhead area.

Re: Potential New Purchase - Need Some Help

Reply #26 – December 04, 2022, 08:18:25 pm

Brett,

Thanks for the very fast reply. Just so I understand you correctly, you're saying I should first attack this from the inside of the utility bay, correct? Peel up the floor of the utility bay from above, not from underneath the coach? I will need to remove the panel behind the faucet, and it looks like this is rather straightforward. When you say I should look for the rust jacking that has pushed down the white fiberglass bottom I assume you're referring to the curved FB that wraps around from the side and under, stopping once it meets the underbelly. I do not see any deformation of the FB beyond a few inches around the area in the photos. I looked very carefully around the entire perimeter of the coach and this is the only area that seems to have any issue like this.

Thanks

Re: Potential New Purchase - Need Some Help

Reply #27 – December 04, 2022, 08:22:04 pm

Quote from: mm1313 – December 04, 2022, 08:18:25 pm

Brett,

Thanks for the very fast reply. Just so I understand you correctly, you're saying I should first attack this from the inside of the utility bay, correct? Peel up the floor of the utility bay from above, not from underneath the coach?

NO.

You need to look from the bottom/under the coach. Yes, you will be laying on the ground on your back looking UP.

Be sure you have safety stands in place before crawling under.

Re: Potential New Purchase - Need Some Help

Reply #28 – December 04, 2022, 08:29:57 pm

Brett,

OK, thanks for clarifying. Sorry for the misunderstanding. This is why I wanted to ask. I appreciate your help. I'm sure there will be more questions. Do you think judging from the photos that this could be minimal or is there no real way to be sure one way or another based on this? I know others have had this issue.

Thanks

Re: Potential New Purchase - Need Some Help

Reply #29 – December 04, 2022, 09:20:16 pm

Like Brett said, the only real way to see what you have going on is to remove the FG sheeting that's on the bottom of the coach. Starting from the back where the angle iron is and go forward till you see good rust free metal.
Might help if you use the "search" function in the upper right hand corner of the home page and type in "bulkhead issues"

Re: Potential New Purchase - Need Some Help

Reply #30 – December 04, 2022, 09:41:18 pm

Richard,

Thanks. Yes, I read a lot on the forum about bulkhead issues before committing to purchase, and now more. I know there is a lot of info here already. Obviously, I am not an expert, but the symptoms of issues are not present aside from this area, which is why I felt it was OK to proceed. What is the best way to remove the fiberglass to do the inspection? Is there a particular tool or strategy for doing this? Should I try to focus only on that area and peel only what is needed? I don't know how flexible it is, which is why I ask. What is the best way to reattach the FB to the structure once this inspection and/or repairs have been completed?

Thanks

Re: Potential New Purchase - Need Some Help

Reply #31 – December 04, 2022, 10:24:53 pm

Brett will reply soon,but you will need some good paint,I have used them all and for me Rust Bullet is the best by far,check their site,they have primers and top coat,I would bet that the rust extends much farther then you can see,a couple of owners have
redone the whole basement bottom themselves,you can search as they have some pictures.

Re: Potential New Purchase - Need Some Help

Reply #32 – December 05, 2022, 08:14:42 am

A couple of good reads that will give you good pictures of the structure and also how others have made repairs:

Bulkhead Repair (Partial Floor Replacement)

Rear Bulkhead Repair

Before, During, After

Don starts buttoning her up (split from Re: What did you do to your coach)

Chassis construction photos from Don and welding on your FT - Page 2

Re: Potential New Purchase - Need Some Help

Reply #33 – December 05, 2022, 08:44:34 am

Brett,

Thanks for the reply. I have already read all of those posts/links, and I imagine I will be revisiting them. Thanks for referencing them. My question at the moment is really how to begin with the fiberglass. What is the best way to remove the fiberglass to do the inspection? Is there a particular tool or strategy for doing this? Should I try to focus only on that area and peel only what is needed? I don't know how flexible it is. What is the best way to reattach the FB to the structure once this inspection and/or repairs have been completed? I didn't really see those who have done the repairs mentioning how they did this specifically. Maybe I missed it when reading those posts. If there is a specific adhesive product I should use to reattach it that would be nice to know.

Thanks

Re: Potential New Purchase - Need Some Help

Reply #34 – December 05, 2022, 08:49:23 am

A look at how far forward the rust jacking has occurred will tell you whether you will be able to just "peel down from the back" or will have to remove sections of the FG.

Certainly, from the photos, you will have to go at least to the front of the wet bay.

You might also tell us where you are located-- there may be someone with first hand experience near you who could take a look for you.

Re: Potential New Purchase - Need Some Help

Reply #35 – December 05, 2022, 09:00:58 am

Brett,

OK, I will take some photos tomorrow and post them here. I expect I will have to go at least to the front of the wet bay, as you say. Thanks

Re: Potential New Purchase - Need Some Help

Reply #36 – December 05, 2022, 09:58:47 am

I will jump in here with a strong suggestion that once this repair is done you have to rebuild the drop down cover to make overlap underneath at least 1. 1/5 inches either side to help seal road water from getting thrown up into that area. I even made a simple deflector to put next to it on the leading edge.
Good luck, and just keep looking at every way water can get into the framework and you should not have any future problems.
Johnh

Re: Potential New Purchase - Need Some Help

Reply #37 – December 05, 2022, 09:59:43 am

When only a "partial" repair is needed, what is the process to prevent future corrosion? I assume folks don't drop the entire frame to paint it, so how do you prevent it from happening all over?

Re: Potential New Purchase - Need Some Help

Reply #38 – December 05, 2022, 10:00:49 am

Quote from: Elliott – December 05, 2022, 09:59:43 am

When only a "partial" repair is needed, what is the process to prevent future corrosion? I assume folks don't drop the entire frame to paint it, so how do you prevent it from happening all over?

Keep water OUT!

If kept dry, the basement structure will well outlast all of us.

Re: Potential New Purchase - Need Some Help

Reply #39 – December 05, 2022, 10:04:46 am

This aluminum piece was attached originally with a few philips screws in the top lip and on the bottom. Carefully try to remove the screws if possible or drill them out and then the aluminum piece should pull off. That should allow you a starting point to peel down the fiberglass.

Re: Potential New Purchase - Need Some Help

Reply #40 – December 05, 2022, 11:28:21 am

John44, thanks. I will look into Rust Bullet. It seems like it is intended to paint actual rusted metal the paint bonds with the rust to stop it and seal. Is this the case? I don't intend to just straight-up paint that awful rust, but it seems if there is some minor rust here and there inside that does not need replacing it can be cleaned and treated with Rust Bullet. Please confirm for me how you used this.

John Haygarth, yes the dropdown cover seems a point of concern. Definitely susceptible to letting in water. I agree with you that it should be redone and have a deflector and overlap.

Dave Larsen, thanks for that. I will do this and feedback here.

Can anyone recommend an adhesive and/or securing method for putting the fiberglass underbelly back in place after peeling it away for inspection and repair? Elliott, I see you did this (Bulkhead Skin Adhesive) to yours. In here I see a lot of talk about adhesives. Has there been more talk about this since then?

Thanks

Re: Potential New Purchase - Need Some Help

Reply #41 – December 05, 2022, 12:05:28 pm

Have used it on a similar project on the coach and on a 01 ford excursion roof,after sanding to the metal.

Re: New Purchase - Rear Bulkhead Issue

Reply #42 – December 05, 2022, 06:12:35 pm

It looks like your blue water pressure tank is leaking. It's on the picture in the bay that has the water pump.

Re: New Purchase - Rear Bulkhead Issue

Reply #43 – December 05, 2022, 06:38:44 pm

Jeff and Sandy,

I'm not sure how you saw that photo since I never uploaded it. Odd. Yes, the accumulator tank has a very small leak. I already have a new one and will replace it tomorrow. Where did you see that photo? Am I forgetting I posted that? Strange.

Thanks

Re: New Purchase - Rear Bulkhead Issue

Reply #44 – December 05, 2022, 07:42:07 pm

The link of the unit for sale has the picture of the blue accumulator tank.

Re: New Purchase - Rear Bulkhead Issue

Reply #45 – December 05, 2022, 11:22:07 pm

When I through bolted my front and rear bulkheads I used a small grinder to cut the fiberglass panels away. I found where the closest pieces of the frame were by tapping around and then cut to the next frame member leaving 1/2 of the cross beam to glue to. This gave me about a foot of space to work/drill/bolt.
The original fiberglass I cut away was trashed. I replaced it with FRP (Fiberglass Reinforced Panel) available at Menards,HD, Loews, in 4x8ft sheets.
I cut it to size and used 3M 4000 adhesive to glue the FRP to the frames with a FEW Stainless screws ( each screw hole needs to be sealed with the 4000 adhesive) . Like installing drywall to a ceiling. The fiberglass and foam board has no structural value to the bottom of the coach.

I know your asking about the steel substructure around the sewage hose outlet, not the bulk heads. The steel around your sewage hose exit looks badly corroded. You mention that the bulkheads were already fixed, what were you told about how, and what, was fixed? If the bulkheads are as corroded as the sewage hose area I would want to have a good look at both the front and rear bulkheads to confirm the complete repair. If it was repaired with just a few bolts driven into rusted steel it is NOT repaired.

Dealing with the fiberglass under belly is not as involved as it my seem. Raise the coach so you have enough room to comfortably crawl underneath. Install some 10" 4x4 wood or steel blocks between the frame rails as shown in other threads and a sticky on top of this forum page. ALWAYS block up the coach when working under it. If the coach drops while under it and there are no blocks (two at each wheel) you will not have to worry about the coach anymore!
The fiberglass underbelly is only about a 3/16" thick, easy to cut with a saw or grinder. It will be glued to the substructure at the steel box beams, so you will have to break it off and chisel off the remaining glue and busted fiberglass. You will also encounter the insulation board, just chisel it away.
I used carburetor cleaner spray, just spray the carb cleaner on the insulation board and it will melt away ( make sure your not under the melting insulation board and there is nothing flammable around the fumes).

Its like an autopsy, you need to get everything out of the way and make a good analysis of what you see and where you might have to expand the search to, or stop.

Re: New Purchase - Rear Bulkhead Issue

Reply #46 – December 07, 2022, 05:39:33 pm

Lon and Cheryl,

Thanks for the detail. That is great. I will be getting into this in the coming months. For now, I am just doing some minor exploration and I'll repair it as soon as possible. I will make sure to monitor water and be sure there are no leaks whatsoever from now on. You have eased my mind a bit about exploring via cutting the fiberglass.

Bob_B, ah. I thought I was going nuts. I have replaced the tank.

Thanks

Re: New Purchase - Rear Bulkhead Issue

Reply #47 – December 07, 2022, 06:42:36 pm

Next time somebody builds a new bottom frame I wonder if he can build 2 ,one extra for the forum.

Re: New Purchase - Rear Bulkhead Issue

Reply #48 – December 08, 2022, 10:58:06 am

Quote from: John44 – December 07, 2022, 06:42:36 pm

Next time somebody builds a new bottom frame I wonder if he can build 2 ,one extra for the forum.

When I was doing DOT work building bumper reinforcements and door beams, I first made a jig so once the saw cut the tubes to length and angles, I just laid the pieces in the jig and snapped the welding clamps shut. The same could easily be done for the FT sub-frame with extensions for the 40 footer and mods for the 34. I cut the pieces ahead of time so the process went quickly and since the welding clamps were welded on to the jig, each item was finished in assembly line speed. With the sub-frame parts cut, it could be welded up in no more than 2 hours. Tabs could be welded on so a multi section belly pan could be fitted allowing easy access instead of the big pan we have today. I had a couple of retired shipyard welders working but I started with only myself.

The sub-frame could be sent out for galvanizing or primed and then painted so the problem would be gone forever.

Most everything I have today is thanks to a Miller wire feed, HF 64 1/2" saw, HF drill press with Jacobs chuck and a few assorted tools. Just put a new power switch on the Miller, the only repair to it in 50 years.

The only problem would be transportation as the width and length would require a small trailer to ship. I filled a horse trailer with PA antiques back in the '70s and had no space for a player piano but found a big rig deadheading back to Los Angeles that loaded and delivered it to a dock for less than $100.

Pierce

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