House batteries boiling

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House batteries boiling

February 25, 2023, 08:09:35 pm

My House Batteries are boiling over when plugged in to shore power I have disconnected the batteries and performed a battery load test they showed OK is there a problem with the converter and is there away to adjust the volt from the converter and what volt should I have at the batteries while plug in. on the wall meter it shows 14 volts. with the engine run on the alternator the silver leaf shows 14.1 on engine battery. and on dash monitor house batteries are charging at 13.9 the problem seems to be with charging batteries from shore power any one had this problem the top of the batteries are always wet and the water turns in to an acid powder batteries are not over filled is well below the top and are covering the plates . At first I figured I had over fill them but the water is half way from battery plates and top of battery I've also cleaned the top of the batteries with baking soda and soap and water so no discharge a cross the top of the battery from post to post.batteries are 4 years old and hold a good charge dry camping.

Re: House batteries boiling

Reply #1 – February 25, 2023, 08:26:08 pm

Let us know what exact charger and inverter you have and what batterys and what amp hours
They are and we will go from there.

Re: House batteries boiling

Reply #2 – February 25, 2023, 08:31:14 pm

What is the voltage at the battery. If you are boiling over the batteries are been over charged.

Re: House batteries boiling

Reply #3 – February 25, 2023, 08:44:59 pm

I haven't checked voltage at the battery with a voltage meter just going by meter on the inside wall 14 volts I'll check tomorrow and get back to you I'm just reaching out think I have a problem and what I should be looking for the inside wall meter is below 15 volt so I didn't think it was a problem till I opened the compartment tonight and the batteries top are wet again after cleaning and serviced then yesterday and I don't have my voltmeter with me tonight I don't think there's any adjustment on the converter or a voltage regulator like an alternator. The meter on the wall goes from 14 volts to 15 volts it's at 14 but that's not accurate enough .

Re: House batteries boiling

Reply #4 – February 25, 2023, 08:51:52 pm

A full charge is about 12.7 volts with the converter/charger continuing to charge at a float voltage of 13.2 volts. Our converter/charger was not stable so I bought a new Progressive Dynamics charger. It's been great and keeping our float voltage right at 13.2V. This is one of the reasons I have twin digital voltmeters on the dash where I can instantly see them at home or on the road.

What kind of batteries do you have? Conventional, AGM or conventional mainatenance free? Taking the covers off a maintenance free battery will void any warranty in most cases.

Pierce

Re: House batteries boiling

Reply #5 – February 25, 2023, 08:56:49 pm

What John asked for would be a good idea and I googled float voltage for lead acid and it is
13.5

Re: House batteries boiling

Reply #6 – February 25, 2023, 09:17:24 pm

They are conventional maintenance batteries Group 19 I believe I'll take a voltage reading tomorrow with the batteries standing over night with out shore power and then I'll plug it in and take a reading with my voltage meter. on the the Gage on the dash that gives you the reading like water, black water, Grey water, propane, it also give the voltage on the house batteries it reads 13.2 volts I presume that this is the house batteries the engine is off but tomorrow I'll put my voltage meter at the battery post and get back to use all.and the type of converter

Re: House batteries boiling

Reply #7 – February 25, 2023, 09:26:37 pm

Rick, on my coach I had the same problem, I fried all 6 batteries here in the S/W. I have a Prosine 2.5 and one of the dip switches was wrong. I'm not sure witch switch it was but in the prosine manual it was very clear how to set it up. Now its fine.

Re: House batteries boiling

Reply #8 – February 25, 2023, 10:18:43 pm

So the topic and concerns bring a question to mind. My two cigarette inputs at the front dash area have volt meters plugged into them. The top one is for house battery charge numbers and the lower one is for start batteries (at least that is what I have read on the posts) I am plugged into shore power 15 amp and have a BatteryMINDer® Model 128CEC2: 12V 2/4/8 AMP Charger on the start batteries. Both meters on the dash read a constant 13.9 volts. Is that too much or I am good with those numbers??? Both house and start batteries are AGM type batteries

Re: House batteries boiling

Reply #9 – February 25, 2023, 11:04:58 pm

For AGM batteries google said 13.2 to 13.8. float charge and 14.2 to 15 volts for absorption charge.
As you have having problems I would drop your float charge. By putting on the voltmeter right on
the battery you can check to see how your other voltmeters around the coach are comparing. On
my coach the voltage on the Silverleaf and my dash gages are .6 of a volt less than my battery voltage.
The cigarette lighter ports are really close.

Re: House batteries boiling

Reply #10 – February 25, 2023, 11:08:46 pm

Peter,

Quote: AGM Batteries
Popular usage includes high performance engine starting, power sports, deep cycle, solar and storage batteries. For this type of battery the typical absorption voltage range 14.4 to 15.0 volts; typical float voltage range 13.2 to 13.8 volts

Our AGMs are working well at about 14 years with 13.2V as the float voltage. Using a digital voltmeter, check the voltage at the battery banks themselves rather than depending on an exact reading from the lighter plugs.

Pierce

Re: House batteries boiling

Reply #11 – February 26, 2023, 07:57:07 am

After careful reading from various sources, applying a particularly sharp eye to information from the battery manufacturers themselves, I settle on the online Battery University as best information, realizing that their main business is commercial battery chargers.
The numbers I've been using full time since 2011 are as follows:

13.2V Float. This is just enough electromotive force to prevent self discharge through chemical reactions.
13.6V Absorption. This is the trickle charge. If applied continuously there will be some electrolyte loss.
14.4V Bulk. This is the rapid charge rate. There is another calculation involved here to determine the maximum current flow that should be allowed. I balance my power converter size against total current need house and battery combined relying on flooded cell lead acid battery construction and the limited amount of time the battery will be drawing maximum current from the power converter before becoming satiated. Usually about 20 minutes at whoopee as evidenced by charging voltage rise toward that 14.4V regulated voltage.

Cape Bretoner: Unless you've always had an issue, or you haven't made a change in the settings of your power converter or inverter-charger, and this problem has only now occurred your best hope is that the voltage sense wire has become open.

Otherwise: Amazon!

PS If you don't know what EMF is: Google it.

Re: House batteries boiling

Reply #12 – February 26, 2023, 08:09:28 am

We need to know exactly what inverter/charger you have and whether it has a battery temperature probe.

Could be something as simple as unplugging and/or re-programming the inverter/charger.

To do the re-programming you will need to know:

Battery technology (wet cell, gel or AGM)
Total battery size in amp-hours
Ambient temperature OR if you have a battery temperature probe.

And, if wet cell, buy a cheap (under $10) battery hydrometer and test each cell.

Re: House batteries boiling

Reply #13 – February 26, 2023, 09:25:43 am

Quote from: Old Toolmaker – February 26, 2023, 07:57:07 am

Cape Bretoner: Unless you've always had an issue, or you haven't made a change in the settings of your power converter or inverter-charger, and this problem has only now occurred your best hope is that the voltage sense wire has become open.

^ This is key ^

Before anything else, is this a new problem that has just started?

If it is, has anything recently changed with regards to batteries or charging system?

Re: House batteries boiling

Reply #14 – February 26, 2023, 12:04:34 pm

Equalization setting would cause electrolyte evaporation.

An alternator that is overcharging the battery can cause boil over. The alternator in a vehicle continuously charges the battery while you drive.

Overheating battery even at correct charge voltage could cause evaporation.

Re: House batteries boiling

Reply #15 – February 26, 2023, 12:05:45 pm

Since the late 90's all Foretravels have had inverter/chargers that adjust their charging and float volts by battery temperature.

In winter the volts are higher on generator and shore power. Summer lower.

Foretravels original Leece-Neville alternators had adjustable voltage regulators on them so as to not overcharge the battery banks mostly in hot weather.

So they set the charging to be at 13.6 volts into a charged battery bank through the isolator.

This was into red top optima engine batteries and to mk(east penn) gel house batteries.

My 97 u320 came with a freedom 25 heart inverter/charger. It's serial number was below 100,000 so it had no battery temp Input

It was not a full sine wave unit either. 70% effecient.

Replaced with a magnum energy 2812 full sine wave unit with battery temp inputs.

I changed the alternator to a new LN without an adjustable voltage output. Now charges at 13.9 until full then drops back to 13.6 or so.

I added a medium sized solar system and added a magnum pt-100 solar controller.

Now both the solar system and shore or gen power to the battery banks are temp controlled.

Start the motor and in not cold weather the batteries show charging at higher volts for a while as like I said the alternator is not temp controlled.

I added a blue sea battery combiner so if either battery bank is getting charged both banks are hooked together automatically and if either bank is being discharged for a short period of time the combiner separates the banks automatically.

Looks like your charger is set incorrectly or the batteries themselves or the cabling might be at fault.

The unicoaches house batteries are in a mostly closed compartment. Boiling over means you are generating hydrogen gas.

Extremely dangerous to install non sealed batteries in a unicoach.

Unihomes had a battery tray with a fiberglass cover over the batteries with a vent tube to the rear axle area to route the gases generated safely out of the compartment.

Unicoaches have no such system as no unicoaches were fit with non sealed batteries.

The inverter charger is in an adjoining compartment and the cabling from the charger goes through the compartment wall into the battery area. Any spark generated could cause a fire.

Foretravel did not use fire retardant marine cabling as they did not fit vented batteries to any unicoach.

Please replace the vented batteries as the compartment is not vented.

Re: House batteries boiling

Reply #16 – February 26, 2023, 02:34:01 pm

House batteries are boiling top of batteries are wet,with acid I have powder acid forming around battery steel rack around the leg from acid running over the side acid build up this occurs when plugged into shore power over time
I have two Gr 8D Commercial 1400CCA batteries maintenance I can add water. they are 4 years old I DID A LOAD test they test OK the alternator and isolator was replaced three years ago this boiling has been going on that I've noticed for a year or so I've had the coach for 3 years the converter is a Freedom model 25 it's looks to be the original 1999.
This morning I did the following test
-standing over NIGTH NOT PLUGGED IN TO SHORE POWER BATTERIES 12.9 VOLTS
-PLUG IN TO SHORE POWER Charging 13.9 VOLTS
-OFF SHORE POWER RUNNING ENGINE (ALTERNATOR) CHARGING 14.1 VOLTS
-RUNNING ENGINE AND Generator TOGETHER CHARGING 14.0 VOLTS
-GENERATOR ONLY CHARGING 13.9 VOTES
I can not get it to over charge by the meter but the batteries are boiling over it's the second time I have to remove them and clean everything up from the powder and paint the battery rack I believe below 15 volts is OK can the batteries boil on there own

Re: House batteries boiling

Reply #17 – February 26, 2023, 03:03:38 pm

I think your problem is plugged in as they are getting charged at 13.9 24/7 and that is too high.
Maybe someone can tell you how to lower your float voltage. You get away with the higher alternator
voltage as it isn't constant. Maybe 4 hours at the most. I changed the regulator to a Balmar Regulator
so I have a Bulk setting, a absorb setting and a float setting.

Re: House batteries boiling

Reply #18 – February 26, 2023, 03:09:34 pm

Thank oldguy I look it up it's been plugged in since November 1 and I took a good look at the batteries and at the rack this week been working on other things.

Re: House batteries boiling

Reply #19 – February 26, 2023, 03:21:07 pm

Two important questions:

Do you have the remote battery temp sensor?

Have you verified inverter/charger programming? Set it to summer temps if no remote temp sensor. Disconnect sensor at inverter/charger if there is one.

Recheck voltage after more than one hour on shore power (so it goes to float mode).

Re: House batteries boiling

Reply #20 – February 26, 2023, 05:18:50 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – February 26, 2023, 03:21:07 pm

Two important questions:

Do you have the remote battery temp sensor?

Have you verified inverter/charger programming? Set it to summer temps if no remote temp sensor. Disconnect sensor at inverter/charger if there is one.

Recheck voltage after more than one hour on shore power (so it goes to float mode).

Brent I don't know if I have a temp sensors and where to find this summer temps is there a place I can read up on it so I can check tomorrow I have to dig up the manual if there something there I have the manual that came with the coach but this is all new to me I will try to do some research on the net tonight about it the coach is in a heat garage about five miles from here I keep heat at about 40 degrees it may have this sensor there is two very small wires connected too the positive and negative post that goes through the compartment wall and comes back out and then goes through the compartments ceiling into the living area and I been wondering what it could be for? It looks like Old telephone wire I'll try to trace it .

Re: House batteries boiling

Reply #21 – February 26, 2023, 05:27:23 pm

I was going to ask you if you had a temperature sensor but it looks like there is on on the back battery negative
post, a better picture would help. I see a wire running from what I think is the temperature sensor but I see it runs
to the middle of the front battery which looks like it is broken off from something.

Re: House batteries boiling

Reply #22 – February 26, 2023, 05:54:14 pm

Is this better

Re: House batteries boiling

Reply #23 – February 26, 2023, 06:34:31 pm

That one wire that goes the the front middle battery looks like it needs to be hooked up
somewhere. The battery temperature sensor has two wires that it needs to complete the
circuit.

Re: House batteries boiling

Reply #24 – February 26, 2023, 06:46:51 pm

There is two wires the one on the positive is hard to see in the picture it in the back you just see the top of the clip tomorrow I will try to trace them

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