Door lock fail?

Topic: Door lock fail? (Read 769 times) previous topic - next topic

Door lock fail?

April 24, 2023, 05:06:44 am

Help!

We've only had the coach a week. Maiden voyage great. Came home, wife got trapped in coach, we had to bail her out of the window.

The door lock is... somehow not connected fully, inside. The key on the exterior will still turn in both directions a bit. Inside, the lock slider will pull forward, but springs back right away. No amount of pressure in either direction on the door itself changes the behavior of the lock.

Has anyone run into this before? I have very little access to the mechanism(s) from the inside, and zero access from the outside. I am getting really good at climbing in and out of my living room window, though!

Re: Door lock fail?

Reply #1 – April 24, 2023, 06:22:16 am

https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=search;sa=results

Try these search items

Re: Door lock fail?

Reply #2 – April 24, 2023, 07:56:00 am

I have had similar issues, (until finally fixed) From inside, remove the black cover under the door handle (it unscrews and can easily removed) and try jiggling the handle or lock.
It may open. Sounds like something wore out or became unconnected.

Re: Door lock fail?

Reply #3 – April 24, 2023, 10:23:57 am

There is an adjustment link in that door mechanism that is accessed from the interior side of the door accessed by removing the black cover. You may need to loosen the interior door cover to access fully.

Re: Door lock fail?

Reply #4 – April 24, 2023, 11:22:58 am

Curious, are you the same nebster from newellgurus?

Re: Door lock fail?

Reply #5 – April 27, 2023, 01:31:20 am

Quote from: master2301 – April 24, 2023, 06:22:16 am

https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=search;sa=results

Try these search items

Thank you; your link doesn't populate any terms, but I did try a number of searches and mostly found folks talking about the cable that goes up to the upper arm/linkage. If you know of an actual thread where someone has this issue with the lock mechanism itself breaking, I'm all ears. (Eyes.)

Re: Door lock fail?

Reply #6 – April 27, 2023, 01:32:28 am

Quote from: Eric Rudolph – April 24, 2023, 07:56:00 am

I have had similar issues, (until finally fixed) From inside, remove the black cover under the door handle (it unscrews and can easily removed) and try jiggling the handle or lock.
It may open. Sounds like something wore out or became unconnected.

Yeah, I think something has broken inside, too. How did you fix it, beyond jiggling it into place once?

I have the black cover removed and have spent a few hours fooling with it from the outside. I've stuck my camera up into the door to see if I could see something obvious that might be jamming it or causing trouble. But I'm no further along the path towards a solution, for all that, unfortunately.

Re: Door lock fail?

Reply #7 – April 27, 2023, 01:33:46 am

Quote from: Realmccoy – April 24, 2023, 10:23:57 am

There is an adjustment link in that door mechanism that is accessed from the interior side of the door accessed by removing the black cover. You may need to loosen the interior door cover to access fully.

If you have any suggestions for how to loosen the interior door cover, I'm keen to hear them. That's at the heart of the problem: I have no way to access anything except the black plastic door handle cover plate. And even when I open up that hole, the screen door surrounding makes it hard to come in freely at any angle.

Re: Door lock fail?

Reply #8 – April 27, 2023, 01:36:56 am

Quote from: folivier – April 24, 2023, 11:22:58 am

Curious, are you the same nebster from newellgurus?

One and the same!

Re: Door lock fail?

Reply #9 – April 27, 2023, 07:14:25 am

Quote from: nebster – April 27, 2023, 01:36:56 am

One and the same!

I questioned the same but didn't ask. Welcome to the group.

Re: Door lock fail?

Reply #10 – April 27, 2023, 09:35:44 am

Got stuck inside ours also. Thankfully I had my great grandson with me and lowered him out a window to get my tool bag( it stays inside now). I removed window ring and then entire trim panel. The problem is the linkage inside can Bend some over the years. You'll see it when you try to pull the handle how it slides. I realigned the linkage lubed it up and has been fine ever since. Wish I would of taken pictures but was at the beach and those kids and the wife wanted out and not through the window.
Larry

Re: Door lock fail?

Reply #11 – April 27, 2023, 09:42:55 am

What part is not unlocking?
The Deadbolt or the Pull handle?
Will the deadbolt turn?

Once somehow? My pull handle was locked (which we never lock) and I spent more time than I'll admit trying to "fix" my door.

So the deadbolt turns 1/4 and the bracket attached to the L bracket above moves the deadbolt cylinder/plunger in and out of door frame opening.

Hope this help

Re: Door lock fail?

Reply #12 – April 27, 2023, 04:38:05 pm

We found the door's inside sliding lever to be problematic and decided to secure it in open position with something stuffed in the sliding opening. This prevented the door handle lock from locking the door.

We then only used the deadbolt to lock the door, key on outside and knob on inside.

One of the safety benefits of always using the deadbolt closure when inside the coach is greater security and while driving if someone falls against the door, the door will never accidently open.

The OEM door frame latch is no where as secure as the positive action of the deadbolt sliding into the door frame.

Door was always locked when we were inside, no strangers could open the door if we were both inside.

Another weak point with using "RV" door handle key is most of the bay and door keys are common to other coaches and some other person could have a key that opens the door handle lock. Deadbolt locks are not exclusive to RVs.

Re: Door lock fail?

Reply #13 – April 27, 2023, 05:54:40 pm

Quote from: Townrestor – April 27, 2023, 09:35:44 am

Got stuck inside ours also. Thankfully I had my great grandson with me and lowered him out a window to get my tool bag( it stays inside now). I removed window ring and then entire trim panel. The problem is the linkage inside can Bend some over the years. You'll see it when you try to pull the handle how it slides. I realigned the linkage lubed it up and has been fine ever since. Wish I would of taken pictures but was at the beach and those kids and the wife wanted out and not through the window.

Thanks Larry, and no worries.

Here is a picture PTL Engineering sent me of the entire mechanism (blue scribbles mine, and also probably not relevant to our problem).

In our case, we believe the sliding lock is the problem, rather than the deadbolt lock or the two latches (one inside, one outside).

I've got calls in with PTL and FOT to get help understanding what I might need to do to try to unbind the lock. Chad at FOT says that he believes the tiny metal pin sticking straight at us at the 3 o'clock void in the big circular cam thing (that's a technical term) is the lock pin. Somehow, the sliding lock pulls or rotates that pin out of the way of the ring, and then all of those latch rods can spin the thing and release the latch.

Re: Door lock fail?

Reply #14 – April 27, 2023, 05:55:41 pm

Quote from: Tommy D – April 27, 2023, 09:42:55 am

What part is not unlocking?
The Deadbolt or the Pull handle?
Will the deadbolt turn?

Yeah, the deadbolt is fine and unlocks no problem. It's the pull handle lock that is the troublemaker.

Re: Door lock fail?

Reply #15 – April 27, 2023, 07:30:01 pm

Quote from: Barry & Cindy – April 27, 2023, 04:38:05 pm

We found the door's inside sliding lever to be problematic and decided to secure it in open position with something stuffed in the sliding opening. This prevented the door handle lock from locking the door.

Depending on what is involved with this repair, I might lean the same direction as you -- just disable the regular sliding lock.

However: our family uses the rig, and the kiddos don't carry keys around (reliably). Right now we can unlock the coach using a radio transmitter and a keypad on the exterior, which is awfully convenient. We would have to change things up if we stopped doing that.

You make a number of other good points, too. Much appreciated.

Re: Door lock fail?

Reply #16 – April 29, 2023, 08:29:05 pm

Quote from: nebster – April 27, 2023, 01:33:46 am

If you have any suggestions for how to loosen the interior door cover, I'm keen to hear them. That's at the heart of the problem: I have no way to access anything except the black plastic door handle cover p

Remove the interior window frame. Pop off the screw/snap covers Remove screws.. Remove the door stop strap if in place. Interior door panel should then remove. You can take out foam insulation panels if needed, they aren't attached. You will probably find one of the linkages unattached. The a couple good pictures first to aid reassembly.
I doubt you'll ever get the lock working long term. Many problems and weak in design.. Maybe consider a wireless deadbolt.

Re: Door lock fail?

Reply #17 – April 29, 2023, 08:45:58 pm

The first time that happened to me my ex-wife was outside and I was inside couldn't get the door open and she couldn't get back in. I don't really remember how I got the door open but it was by luck.
It happened to me another time by myself and this time I decided to do something about it. What I found was that the linkage was not adjusted properly. Like Chuck said in the post above me take the whole interior door trim off it's not hard. You'll have to take the interior window part off but again it's just square headed screws. Once you get that off, you'll see a barrel boat with parts going up and down to the lock and up to the latch or vice versa that needs to be properly adjusted and everything lubed well and you should be good to go. I never use that lock anymore only the deadbolt. Since the last time I repaired it I had zero issues with the door. Other than it not shutting well so I have to slam it that's a different issue.
The plywood that makes up the interior door is very thin so make sure you support it properly or it will break about the level of the bottom of the window. I would say something stupid and cute like don't ask me how I know it but I never did like that expression. I know it because I did it I broke the plywood but it's really not a big deal once you screw the interior door back on.

Re: Door lock fail?

Reply #18 – April 30, 2023, 01:20:25 am

Okay, thanks y'all. I talked to PTL and FOT, and both of them basically said I have no choice but to cut into the door to free the latch and get the door open. Those of you who suggested taking the door apart were spot on, except it's impossible to take the door apart when it's stuck closed! Hehehe.

I cut a 2-inch round in the vicinity of the latching cam thing and was able to release the latch with pliers from there. Once I got the door open, disassembly was straightforward. (I thought I was going to have to take the window and enjoy butyl fun, but just the interior trim/frame was sufficient, whew!)

I made a video that shows the weird behavior of the sliding lock. Interestingly, I was able to get it to stay locked if I pulled on the latch as well. Here's the video.

I couldn't figure out how the door started working a little better once I'd opened it, until I started messing around with the pos-a-loc at the top of the door. That is definitely part of the problem, the catch pin up there has been turned into a half corkscrew, and it's not moving properly anymore.

When the door is wide open (pos-a-loc doesn't work anymore, but if I just leave it open), the pin up there is in a position where the rest of the lock mechanism sorta works. If I start to close the door, the pin up there starts to bind on the linkage, and that loads up the cable, which then starts to put pressure on the whole lock/cam and moves it slightly. Once that happens, the entire latch/lock linkage basically stops working.

I can tell that everything is super sensitive to position, angle, shape of the metal linkages, etc. It's pretty hard to tell which part(s) are broken or bent or will need repairing, but I'm certain the pos-a-loc is going to have to get repaired or replaced. Maybe some of the rest of the issues will become clearer (or clear up) after I fix that part.

Thank you to all of you who've described different fixes. I'm especially interested in just removing the entire lock, but I don't think I can remove the latches and handles. Seems like the pos-a-loc depends on those, and then I don't know how the door would behave if I only used a deadbolt and didn't have the benefit of the regular latch holding the door closed under way. (?)

More to come.

Re: Door lock fail?

Reply #19 – April 30, 2023, 10:29:22 am

The pos a loc is no longer available. PTL sells a replacement that doesn't lock and has nothing to do with the door handle. Too many issues with people forcing the door closed not knowing to pull the handle first.

Re: Door lock fail?

Reply #20 – April 30, 2023, 07:05:58 pm

Yeah the first time I had problems with the door it involved the upper puzzle lock. Mine doesn't lock anymore. I remember now how I got the door open. If you remove the inside latch for the dead bolt I was able to get something down into there too move the mechanism.
For now don't worry about the pos a loc in my opinion just get it so that the door reliably opens and closes and locks using both locks if you can.
Also I found that the big window on the driver's side is a lot easier to get into and out of than the drivers window lol.

Re: Door lock fail?

Reply #21 – April 30, 2023, 11:39:20 pm

Today, I disabled the pos-a-loc system up at the top of the door, decoupling the cable from the mangled locking pawl thing up there.

And, what do you know, now the latch and locks seem to work perfectly. It's hard to believe that the small amount of extra tension that the cable was placing on the mechanism would cause the whole thing to misbehave the way it did, but it seems that was it. I may not even need to really replace anything down lower on the door now, which is great.

I'll talk to PTL next about getting a friction-based replacement.

Re: Door lock fail?

Reply #22 – May 01, 2023, 09:07:54 am

i bought the replacement hold open arm from PTL and I love it. Simple and effective solution.

Re: Door lock fail?

Reply #23 – May 01, 2023, 09:47:50 am

Quote from: Geodmann – May 01, 2023, 09:07:54 am

i bought the replacement hold open arm from PTL and I love it. Simple and effective solution.

Will a gust of wind slam the door with the new style?

Re: Door lock fail?

Reply #24 – May 01, 2023, 10:01:08 am

No. it would take a gale force wind gust. It takes a very firm push to engage the hold open and an equally firm tug to disengage it. I'm very happy with it.

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