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Topic: Stranded on an exit ramp - Stop Engine and ABS lights (Read 5263 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Stranded on an exit ramp - Stop Engine and ABS lights

Reply #100
The component in the bottom of the photo labeled "start" is also in terrible condition and should be replaced.
X2 on what Brett says - replace that aux start solenoid.

You said in Reply #53 that "we replaced the battery cables and the boost solenoid".  What was the part or model number solenoid that you used for the new boost solenoid?  You should be able to use the same one to replace the aux start solenoid.
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Stranded on an exit ramp - Stop Engine and ABS lights

Reply #101
WE do have the boost solenoid that we replaced with a new one yesterday but it looks way better than this.  Could we use that if we can't get anything locally?
Yes, that would work.

The boost solenoid and the aux start solenoid are usually interchangeable.  For future reference, the model most recommended on the Forum is linked below.  You aren't likely to find it in the local auto parts stores, but you could get lucky.

Amazon.com: Cole Hersee 24213 12V 200A Continuous Solenoid : Automotive

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Stranded on an exit ramp - Stop Engine and ABS lights

Reply #102
Yes
Your boost solenoid will work for your start solenoid.
Justin & Cathy Byrd
1995 U280 "Old Faithful"
36' Build #4673
C8.3 Cummins
Allison MD3060R 6 speed - retarder
Powertech 10KW  4cyl Kubota

Re: Stranded on an exit ramp - Stop Engine and ABS lights

Reply #103
Yes, that would work.

The boost solenoid and the aux start solenoid are usually interchangeable.  For future reference, the model most recommended on the Forum is linked below.  You aren't likely to find it in the local auto parts stores, but you could get lucky.

Amazon.com: Cole Hersee 24213 12V 200A Continuous Solenoid : Automotive



We just sent our son running down to a local auto part store (that was closed yesterday) that was a little over half mile away with the part and they had one that they had special ordered that the person hadn't picked up.  Fortunate for us!  Unfortunately the auto parts store sell these for $80 when Amazon has the exact same one for $46 if we had the time to wait until it arrived on Wednesday :/
As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.
-Trent and Siobhan Walker + 5 boys
Proud owners of a 1995 U300 SE that we bought from Jor.  We are so blessed and loving life on the road!

Re: Stranded on an exit ramp - Stop Engine and ABS lights

Reply #104
Yes
Your boost solenoid will work for your start solenoid.
The old boost solenoid that we took off was too stripped and had a bolt we couldn't get off so we got a new one. 
-Trent and Siobhan Walker + 5 boys
Proud owners of a 1995 U300 SE that we bought from Jor.  We are so blessed and loving life on the road!

Re: Stranded on an exit ramp - Stop Engine and ABS lights

Reply #105
So starts and runs then shuts down. Low coolant sensor failure will cause it to start run 30 seconds and ECM shuts it down . Enough to move from roadway. Engine life saving program. Stop trying to fix everything, that is for next week. Salesman switch just turn it off. If it starts the battery cable condition is good enough. Stop worrying about it. Getting back to your current issue. Starts , runs for 120 seconds and shuts off. Stop engine light illuminated? Check engine light illuminated? If it is this may be an engine life saving function doing its job. Do you have a scan tool for the engine? Scan faults record and erase. Loosing batteries while operation will induce many low voltage faults. If you dont have a scan tool, now is the time to get one. Guessing for a resolution may work but will cost a fortune. ECM could be seeing any sort of fault now and just trying to do its programed job. ECM may have been faulted by the low voltage also. My fuses are in view in that one engine ECM photo kinda hidden in that loop of wires and lines. 2001 ISM. Four to six fuses. Dont actually recall. Almost under the intake tube to intercooler. So sorry and understand the stress.

Re: Stranded on an exit ramp - Stop Engine and ABS lights

Reply #106
Where/how might we get an isolator replacement...
...what may have caused a possible fire at some point? 
No telling what happened to the old isolator.  It was WAY overdue for replacement, so RIP.

When you removed the trashed isolator, Brett had you connect the alternator output cable to the start battery cable.  That way, the alternator will directly charge the start batteries.  If you engage your boost switch, then both battery banks will be charged by the alternator.  This will work fine for as long as you need to go without an isolator, so you can take your time shopping.

The old isolator had 4 posts on it, but two of them were connected together with a jumper.  When you go looking for a replacement, all you need is one with 3 posts: ALT, BAT1 and BAT2.  Get one rated for at least 200A.  Links below to a couple popular units.  If you have time to order it and wait for delivery, I would recommend the Victron ArgoFET.  If you are in a hurry, you might find the Cole Hersee at a local parts store.

Amazon.com: Victron Energy Argofet Battery Isolators 200-2AC (2 Batteries...

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/cole-hersee/battery---accessories/battery-isolators---universal/8cb8993005ef/cole-hersee-200-amp-battery-isolator/ch00/48160?pos=1
As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Stranded on an exit ramp - Stop Engine and ABS lights

Reply #107
No telling what happened to the old isolator.  It was WAY overdue for replacement, so RIP.

When you removed the trashed isolator, Brett had you connect the alternator output cable to the start battery cable.  That way, the alternator will directly charge the start batteries.  If you engage your boost switch, then both battery banks will be charged by the alternator.  This will work fine for as long as you need to go without an isolator, so you can take your time shopping.

The old isolator had 4 posts on it, but two of them were connected together with a jumper.  When you go looking for a replacement, all you need is one with 3 posts: ALT, BAT1 and BAT2.  Get one rated for at least 200A.  Links below to a couple popular units.  If you have time to order it and wait for delivery, I would recommend the Victron ArgoFET.  If you are in a hurry, you might find the Cole Hersee at a local parts store.

Amazon.com: Victron Energy Argofet Battery Isolators 200-2AC (2 Batteries...

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/cole-hersee/battery---accessories/battery-isolators---universal/8cb8993005ef/cole-hersee-200-amp-battery-isolator/ch00/48160?pos=1

We didn't remove the trashed isolator.  Brett said it was okay to just connect the two cables on the post with the cable going to the chassis battery.

It still won't start without the engine stop light coming on and the engine shutting down.  Trent just took the start batteries out to take them down to the auto part store down the road and get them professionally tested.  We just aren't getting enough voltage and can't get rid of the stop engine light and the automatic shut-down. 
As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.
-Trent and Siobhan Walker + 5 boys
Proud owners of a 1995 U300 SE that we bought from Jor.  We are so blessed and loving life on the road!

Re: Stranded on an exit ramp - Stop Engine and ABS lights

Reply #108
So starts and runs then shuts down. Low coolant sensor failure will cause it to start run 30 seconds and ECM shuts it down . Enough to move from roadway. Engine life saving program. Stop trying to fix everything, that is for next week. Salesman switch just turn it off. If it starts the battery cable condition is good enough. Stop worrying about it. Getting back to your current issue. Starts , runs for 120 seconds and shuts off. Stop engine light illuminated? Check engine light illuminated? If it is this may be an engine life saving function doing its job. Do you have a scan tool for the engine? Scan faults record and erase. Loosing batteries while operation will induce many low voltage faults. If you dont have a scan tool, now is the time to get one. Guessing for a resolution may work but will cost a fortune. ECM could be seeing any sort of fault now and just trying to do its programed job. ECM may have been faulted by the low voltage also. My fuses are in view in that one engine ECM photo kinda hidden in that loop of wires and lines. 2001 ISM. Four to six fuses. Dont actually recall. Almost under the intake tube to intercooler. So sorry and understand the stress.
We have a silver leaf diagnostic tool on the rig and I posted all of the error codes a bit back in this thread.  The first time when we broke down yesterday it caused a whole bunch of codes to come up and since then when we try to start it we get the "low voltage" error code. 

We would love to worry about fixing the problems next week, but we are over an hour from home and need to get this rig back so we can check through everything.  If we could just get the coach down the road it would be nice.  My husband just took the batteries over to the auto parts store down the road to get them professionally tested to see if one or more is not working.  They were brand new before we stored the RV for 2 years and we're left on a trickle charger so they should not be dead, right?
-Trent and Siobhan Walker + 5 boys
Proud owners of a 1995 U300 SE that we bought from Jor.  We are so blessed and loving life on the road!

Re: Stranded on an exit ramp - Stop Engine and ABS lights

Reply #109
Trent just got back from the auto parts store and the batteries are fine.  So frustrated trying to track this down.  We have cleaned or replaced so much and we just need to get back to my parents' house so we can work on it.
-Trent and Siobhan Walker + 5 boys
Proud owners of a 1995 U300 SE that we bought from Jor.  We are so blessed and loving life on the road!

Re: Stranded on an exit ramp - Stop Engine and ABS lights

Reply #110
Maybe a member with a M11 will chime in here, I have a Cummins 8.3 mechanical engine so I'm not familiar with a M11.
Can you run a wire directly from the chassis battery to power the ECM? (with an inline fuse for protection of course)
without seeing a wiring diagram of your coach, I have no idea from where the power is sourced for your ECM, could be something as simple as a connection somewhere in your wiring harness. Thinking this would eliminate a low voltage condition at the ECM.
Justin & Cathy Byrd
1995 U280 "Old Faithful"
36' Build #4673
C8.3 Cummins
Allison MD3060R 6 speed - retarder
Powertech 10KW  4cyl Kubota

Re: Stranded on an exit ramp - Stop Engine and ABS lights

Reply #111
Maybe a member with a M11 will chime in here, I have a Cummins 8.3 mechanical engine so I'm not familiar with a M11.
Can you run a wire directly from the chassis battery to power the ECM? (with an inline fuse for protection of course)
without seeing a wiring diagram of your coach, I have no idea from where the power is sourced for your ECM, could be something as simple as a connection somewhere in your wiring harness. Thinking this would eliminate a low voltage condition at the ECM.


Here's our wiring diagram:

-Trent and Siobhan Walker + 5 boys
Proud owners of a 1995 U300 SE that we bought from Jor.  We are so blessed and loving life on the road!

Re: Stranded on an exit ramp - Stop Engine and ABS lights

Reply #112
I also have 1995 M11 Cummins and was getting ready to go to on trip, went out the night before to start it. It started, ran 20-30 seconds and died. Changed Fuel filters, started up, drove 2 miles, died again. This time it would roll over but no start. Coachnet towed to Cummins in Houston, Bad ECM and fuel solenoid shorted. No ECM available, as it was too old. Cummins rebuild approximate turn around  2 weeks Or Ignition King in Santa Fe, Texas could rebuild it and have it to us the next day. Cummins was Twice the cost of Ignition King. Decided Cummins for warranty on road. Bad decision! 6 weeks later got RV back. Runs great now. Don't know if this could be your problem. Good Luck!
95 U320 SE
07 GMC CANYON

Re: Stranded on an exit ramp - Stop Engine and ABS lights

Reply #113
Yes saw the codes. But you also had a power failure issue during that event. Those all need to be erased and a new base for faults with a properly operating battery system. This is to delete all those nuisance faults that are just a distraction to your problem. Work the new engine faults that are displayed now you have resolved your power problem. When I got my coach the ECM had a platform failure and was junk. The new rebuilt ECM is not new. It has been cleared and had a new overwrite of its information, today my ECM still shows a total life of like 950K miles and the lifetime fuel economy stays at 6.6. Penciled and paper shows otherwise. But you need to determine that before you replace. You are receiving a stop engine signal and that is what needs to be resolved. I dont own a silverleaf and am unfamiliar with its actual capabilities.

Re: Stranded on an exit ramp - Stop Engine and ABS lights

Reply #114
Unfortunately, that diagram is of no use in this situation.  What you really need is the diagram of the interface between the coach wiring and the engine ECM.  I looked in the Forum library and I don't think we have the right document for your early model M11.  There is one for the ISM450.  I linked to it below.  It is VERY complicated.  I don't think even the correct diagram would be much help, at least to me.

I certainly would advise against trying to power the ECM with a jumper wire - way too much chance of disaster.

https://www.foreforums.com/index.php?action=media;sa=media;in=3281

1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Stranded on an exit ramp - Stop Engine and ABS lights

Reply #115
I also have 1995 M11 Cummins and was getting ready to go to on trip, went out the night before to start it. It started, ran 20-30 seconds and died. Changed Fuel filters, started up, drove 2 miles, died again. This time it would roll over but no start. Coachnet towed to Cummins in Houston, Bad ECM and fuel solenoid shorted. No ECM available, as it was too old. Cummins rebuild approximate turn around  2 weeks Or Ignition King in Santa Fe, Texas could rebuild it and have it to us the next day. Cummins was Twice the cost of Ignition King. Decided Cummins for warranty on road. Bad decision! 6 weeks later got RV back. Runs great now. Don't know if this could be your problem. Good Luck!


This is what I'm afraid of.  Isn't it a super big expense for new or rebuilt ECM?  I'm just so frustrated because it was enough of an expense to get our whole family back to the mainland (we live as missionaries in Hawaii) for the summer and we had planned to spend time in the RV adventuring together because it's just what we really needed but we didn't plan for thousands more to put into the coach to just get it drivable.  *sigh* It was much easier when we were fulltiming to keep up with this coach.  Now it's becoming more of a money pit to keep up for the summers when we want to use it.  We were thinking about selling it at the end of summer but its current condition isn't really sellable now :((( Ugh...I'm just in a bad mood after being cooped up in the coach on the side of the road with all five of my sons for two days straight.  I need to just get my mind off of it for a bit.  I'm just hoping my husband can limp her back to my parents' driveway without causing any further issues.
-Trent and Siobhan Walker + 5 boys
Proud owners of a 1995 U300 SE that we bought from Jor.  We are so blessed and loving life on the road!

Re: Stranded on an exit ramp - Stop Engine and ABS lights

Reply #116
Cummins was$2400 + diagnostic +fuel solenoid $5400. Ignition King $1200 ECM only
95 U320 SE
07 GMC CANYON

Re: Stranded on an exit ramp - Stop Engine and ABS lights

Reply #117
It's easy to lose hope when you're stranded like we are. Do not lose hope. Just try not to do anything dumb like I did and wait for the right answer. Why are you guys still on the side of the road do you not have towing assistance?
It may be that you're going to have to put some money into it, and then if you choose I'm sure you could find another owner that will appreciate it as much as you do.
'99 U320 40 WTFE
Build #5462,
1500 Watts Solar 600 amp Victron lithium
2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland Hemi
Instagram bobfnbw
Retired

Re: Stranded on an exit ramp - Stop Engine and ABS lights

Reply #118
Siobhan,

We feel your pain, but we (the Forum members) are reaching the end of the standard suggestions for roadside breakdown repair.  It is much easier dealing with the older all-mechanical engines.  Once computers and electronic ECMs enter the picture, it becames more complicated.  It is possible that a knowledgeable mobile mechanic, armed with the proper diagnostic tools and software, could quickly pinpoint your exact problem.  Of course, identifying the problem, and fixing it, are two very different things.  But one must precede the other.

You may have to resort to seeking assistance from a mobile technician to get the coach moving again.  Either that, or get it towed.

Sorry.  I'm not wanting to sound like a pessimist, but that's the way I see it.
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Stranded on an exit ramp - Stop Engine and ABS lights

Reply #119
IMO, getting good steady 12+ VDC to the starter AND to the front of the coach is job one. When turning the key to the first position takes voltage at the ignition solenoid from 12 to 0, do not expect anything to work properly.

Trying to diagnose computer or sensor issues with incorrect voltage supplied to them can lead to a lot of false "rabbit holes".

After the basic electrical issues are resolved, absolutely the next step is to clear and recheck for diagnostic codes-- engine and transmission.

Many have mentioned the engine codes. 

The transmission codes are even easier to access:
Turn ignition key on (so transmission shift pad illuminates)
Press the up and down arrows on the shift pad at the same time.  That will either bring up d-1 OR on newer ECU's it will bring up OL.  If OL, merely press the up and down arrows again at the same time.

Now, d-1 will come up and will display the first diagnostic code,  Just write it down-- refer to your Allison owners manual or online.  If there is no diagnostic code you will get d-1 followed by - -.

If there is a code for d-1, press the mode button to bring up d-2.  Continue until you get d- "something" - -.

Turn off the key.  You are done.
Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: Stranded on an exit ramp - Stop Engine and ABS lights

Reply #120
I would say that the members of The forum gave you more than just standard answers. That's why this forum is so fantastic . At this point I would think about your family's safety and get the coach towed. Either back home or somewhere where it's safe.
Real sorry this happened to you guys. I do like Scott's answer about clearing all the codes and then starting from fresh if possible. I'm wondering if it's just a simple ground issue?
Did you ever find out what that wire was that disintegrated when he touched it?
The first fuse holder that you found near the batteries is for your racor fuel filter pump.
Would the ECM even work at all and give error codes if the fuses are blown? Maybe that's why there were three?
If you have it towed to a repair place make sure first it will work on an rv. Many truck places will not.
This would be a good place for the bus Grease monkey but he's in Tennessee.
Good luck and I hope this nightmare ends soon for you.
'99 U320 40 WTFE
Build #5462,
1500 Watts Solar 600 amp Victron lithium
2012 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland Hemi
Instagram bobfnbw
Retired

Re: Stranded on an exit ramp - Stop Engine and ABS lights

Reply #121
Siobhan
Understand that this is a totally different problem but I thought it may give you a little hope for a good outcome. Three years ago we were stuck with a non moveable coach, fortunately we were at a National Forest campground but were being forced to move because our site was booked to someone else. The day we planned to leave the Alison shift pad was totally blank, dark, nothing and no warning. It would start and run but no go! I had made plans for a tow and booked a flight for my wife and son to fly back home. I was going to have the coach towed to a RV park with hookups for a week while waiting on the shift pad to be repaired. I would then drive the 525 miles back home a week later. But, a week later I would still have the same problem, it wasn't the shift pad.
Total cost was going to be $2000 - $3000, with the tow,campground fees, shift pad repair and flight for two back to Florida.
 I kept trouble shooting asking questions here on the forum.
The fix? a broken ground wire behind the fiberglass panel in the storage bay next to the inverter.

Here is the link from 3 years ago.
 Need Help...... Allison Keypad, dark.........

Keep your spirits high and never give up.
Justin & Cathy Byrd
1995 U280 "Old Faithful"
36' Build #4673
C8.3 Cummins
Allison MD3060R 6 speed - retarder
Powertech 10KW  4cyl Kubota

Re: Stranded on an exit ramp - Stop Engine and ABS lights

Reply #122
Trent & Siobhan,

How is it going this morning?  Any progress to report?  I keep hoping your engine will magically "cure" itself, at least temporarily.

I have been trying to research this problem online.  I'm sure you have been doing the same thing.  I keep seeing reference to the fact that the low coolant sensor is a common cause of problems in all kinds of trucks and RVs.  For instance, see below link.  I know it is a different engine, but the important part is the list of three common "engine quits" causes:

FORETRAVEL

In my reading online, I see that on many occasions, although the coolant reservoir is actually full of liquid, the low level sensor still thinks it is empty.  In other words, the sensor gives a faulty signal.  The standard fix is to replace the sensor.  BUT, if this is not possible, it seems that in some cases the sensor can be bypassed or taken out of the loop.  Doing so MAY allow the engine to start and continue running.  It DOESN'T work in every case.  Removing or bypassing the sensor may prevent the engine from starting at all.  If it does start and continue running, the ECM may "derate" the engine power and only allow limited RPM or speed.  However, that would still hopefully allow you to move the coach to better location.

If you want to try it, you'll need to look at the sensor to see what is required to bypass it.  Does it have a one-piece electric plug connection of some sort, or two separate wires connected to prongs on the sensor.  If it is a single plug, you could try just disconnecting the plug, then see if the engine will start and keep running.  If it starts but then stops again, the next step is to connect the two wires together to close the sensor circuit.  If it is a plug, just use a little piece of wire inserted in the plug holes to complete the circuit.  If you have two separate wires just tie the ends together somehow to complete the circuit.  Try again to start and see what happens.

I know this is a long shot, but it's the best I have come up with in my research.  Worst case scenario, bypassing the sensor will keep the engine from even trying to start, but that won't hurt anything.  If that happens, just put the sensor connector back on and forget this idea.
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Stranded on an exit ramp - Stop Engine and ABS lights

Reply #123
Trent & Siobhan,

How is it going this morning?  Any progress to report?  I keep hoping your engine will magically "cure" itself, at least temporarily.

I have been trying to research this problem online.  I'm sure you have been doing the same thing.  I keep seeing reference to the fact that the low coolant sensor is a common cause of problems in all kinds of trucks and RVs.  For instance, see below link.  I know it is a different engine, but the important part is the list of three common "engine quits" causes:

FORETRAVEL

In my reading online, I see that on many occasions, although the coolant reservoir is actually full of liquid, the low level sensor still thinks it is empty.  In other words, the sensor gives a faulty signal.  The standard fix is to replace the sensor.  BUT, if this is not possible, it seems that in some cases the sensor can be bypassed or taken out of the loop.  Doing so MAY allow the engine to start and continue running.  It DOESN'T work in every case.  Removing or bypassing the sensor may prevent the engine from starting at all.  If it does start and continue running, the ECM may "derate" the engine power and only allow limited RPM or speed.  However, that would still hopefully allow you to move the coach to better location.

If you want to try it, you'll need to look at the sensor to see what is required to bypass it.  Does it have a one-piece electric plug connection of some sort, or two separate wires connected to prongs on the sensor.  If it is a single plug, you could try just disconnecting the plug, then see if the engine will start and keep running.  If it starts but then stops again, the next step is to connect the two wires together to close the sensor circuit.  If it is a plug, just use a little piece of wire inserted in the plug holes to complete the circuit.  If you have two separate wires just tie the ends together somehow to complete the circuit.  Try again to start and see what happens.

I know this is a long shot, but it's the best I have come up with in my research.  Worst case scenario, bypassing the sensor will keep the engine from even trying to start, but that won't hurt anything.  If that happens, just put the sensor connector back on and forget this idea.
When I had my bad sensor I tried to bypass it. I was unable too. I was real serious and confident I could, but could not. It would start run and shut down after thirty seconds. I carry a spare because of this and reccomend any ISM owner to also.

Re: Stranded on an exit ramp - Stop Engine and ABS lights

Reply #124
It was your issue Scott that has me carrying a spare coolant sensor and cam position sensor.
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean