50amp RV power conversion to 220v household

Topic: 50amp RV power conversion to 220v household (Read 2313 times) previous topic - next topic

50amp RV power conversion to 220v household

June 30, 2023, 08:13:58 pm

I want to replace my washer and dryer in the Foretravel.
I would like to go with a 220v appliances at least for the dryer. My problem is the 220v household connection.
I don't see a situation where I need access to 220v unless I'm in a campground plugged into a 50 or 30 amp site. I won't convert my generator to 220v and would never run the washer and dryer while driving.

My idea was to install a 220v household outlet to run just the washer and dryer or just the dryer from an RV pedestal.
Can a 50amp or 30amp RV outlet be made to work from the pedestal at a RV park with an adapter to 220v household outlet?

Re: 50amp RV power conversion to 220v household

Reply #1 – June 30, 2023, 08:23:20 pm

For the 50 amp outlet it could be done and the 30 amp outlet it can't be done as the
30 amp outlet is only 120 volts.

Re: 50amp RV power conversion to 220v household

Reply #2 – June 30, 2023, 08:31:44 pm

Why not just get a long cord for the dryer and plug directly to the 50 amp pedestal?

Re: 50amp RV power conversion to 220v household

Reply #3 – June 30, 2023, 09:19:32 pm

If the Dryer is he only appliance you are interested in using 220v, then I would hard wire the dryer to an outside 220V marine waterproof outside receptacle. Then you could use a 220v supply cord to feed that receptacle from the pedestal or from a 220v source. The drawback or limit is that most campground pedestals only have one (1) 220v source. You would need an additional source for the supply line that feeds the motorcoach... The 220v supply that enters Our motorhomes is split into two 110 circuits in the main breaker panel, each side supplies only 110v appliances....

Re: 50amp RV power conversion to 220v household

Reply #4 – June 30, 2023, 09:22:41 pm

Disclaimer: I don't know how your Foretravel is wired so you need to ascertain the facts yourself. That said, every coach I have owned, that came with 50A service from the factory, had 220V to the breaker panel WHEN PLUGGED INTO A 50A PEDESTAL. A lot of coaches, including mine, have 220V when running the generator. Usually, 220V is not accessed because everything in the coach is 110V. Assuming you coach is wired for 220V, you can access it by removing two adjacent single gang breakers and replacing them with one double gang breaker, just as you would in your house. The simple way to check is to remove the cover from the panel and check the voltage across two adjacent breakers. It it is 220V, you are good to go; if not, you will have to do additional wiring.

If you have 220V, install a double gang breaker of the appropriate amperage and run a wire from the panel to the dryer location. If there is no room in the panel, you can buy 2 piggyback breakers and move the existing wiring around to make room. If you are not comfortable doing this, find someone who knows both house wiring and RV wiring to do it for you . Nothing will work if you let the smoke out!

If you have room, another avenue to consider is to buy an apartment sized, stacked washer/dryer. They are 110V. We had one in an apartment when first married (back in the stone age) and, while not ideal, we washed and dried a lot of clothes in it.

TOM

Re: 50amp RV power conversion to 220v household

Reply #5 – June 30, 2023, 09:23:56 pm

I would give serious consideration to how this would impact resale. True, you may plan to keep the coach a long time, but doing something "unusual" like this would make the coach very difficult to sell should you need to. We half-timed in our Foretravel and never felt the need for a 220 VAC dryer, even with the little combo Splendide.

I'd consider a separate Splendide washer and dryer (vs. the combo unit), which is VERY common in higher-end coaches these days, versus something that's a one-off and could not be used while on generator power.

Re: 50amp RV power conversion to 220v household

Reply #6 – June 30, 2023, 09:51:47 pm

Quote from: OldManSax – June 30, 2023, 09:22:41 pm

Disclaimer: I don't know how your Foretravel is wired so you need to ascertain the facts yourself. That said, every coach I have owned, that came with 50A service from the factory, had 220V to the breaker panel WHEN PLUGGED INTO A 50A PEDESTAL. A lot of coaches, including mine, have 220V when running the generator. Usually, 220V is not accessed because everything in the coach is 110V. Assuming you coach is wired for 220V, you can access it by removing two adjacent single gang breakers and replacing them with one double gang breaker, just as you would in your house. The simple way to check is to remove the cover from the panel and check the voltage across two adjacent breakers. It it is 220V, you are good to go; if not, you will have to do additional wiring.

If you have 220V, install a double gang breaker of the appropriate amperage and run a wire from the panel to the dryer location. If there is no room in the panel, you can buy 2 piggyback breakers and move the existing wiring around to make room. If you are not comfortable doing this, find someone who knows both house wiring and RV wiring to do it for you . Nothing will work if you let the smoke out!

If you have room, another avenue to consider is to buy an apartment sized, stacked washer/dryer. They are 110V. We had one in an apartment when first married (back in the stone age) and, while not ideal, we washed and dried a lot of clothes in it.

TOM

First, I agree on NOT doing this.

If you do, Tom's "how to" (adjacent breakers just like in a home AC distribution box= 240 VAC) is correct.

But, if the generator is 120 VAC or if you ever plug into a "bogus" 50 amp outlet (two hots on the same side of the CG box= hot to hot= 0 VAC) your drier may not work OR WORSE, you could severely overload the neutral, as it would carry the SUM of L1 and L2 instead of the difference.

IMO, again, don't do it.

Re: 50amp RV power conversion to 220v household

Reply #7 – June 30, 2023, 09:58:06 pm

Quote from: Gerry Vicha – June 30, 2023, 09:19:32 pm

If the Dryer is he only appliance you are interested in using 220v, then I would hard wire the dryer to an outside 220V marine waterproof outside receptacle. Then you could use a 220v supply cord to feed that receptacle from the pedestal or from a 220v source. The drawback or limit is that most campground pedestals only have one (1) 220v source. You would need an additional source for the supply line that feeds the motorcoach... The 220v supply that enters Our motorhomes is split into two 110 circuits in the main breaker panel, each side supplies only 110v appliances....

This was the approach I was thinking of.

Re: 50amp RV power conversion to 220v household

Reply #8 – July 01, 2023, 07:27:09 am

Quote from: wolfe10 – June 30, 2023, 09:51:47 pm

First, I agree on NOT doing this.

If you do, Tom's "how to" (adjacent breakers just like in a home AC distribution box= 240 VAC) is correct.

But, if the generator is 120 VAC or if you ever plug into a "bogus" 50 amp outlet (two hots on the same side of the CG box= hot to hot= 0 VAC) your drier may not work OR WORSE, you could severely overload the neutral, as it would carry the SUM of L1 and L2 instead of the difference.

IMO, again, don't do it.

Tom and Brett are correct, if you just wire the dryer to your existing Main Panel that is fed from your transfer switch using a double pole breaker (30 amp usually) it will work if your generator is wired for 240 or the campground is wired correctly for 240v service. If supplied with only 120v (2 legs of the same side of a split phase 240v service) the dryer will likely spin but not heat as the element is 240 volt and the drum motor is 120v. The heating element will only see 0 volts

Disclaimer : this is true on most but not necessarily all dryers that could be used in a RV.

Do your homework if you choose to do this, it can be done safely just understand what you have and what you WILL have when done.

Re: 50amp RV power conversion to 220v household

Reply #9 – July 01, 2023, 08:47:38 am

Warning! This is probably a rant.... I just can't help myself! LOL!

Brett, Justin, and others pointed out some good points. That brings up a two of my SOPs (Standard Operating Procedures) for life:

If you don't know what you're doing, DON'T DO IT!
If you don't know, find someone who DOES know!

You gonna run some wiring under the coach? Fine! Do you know what cribbing is?
You gonna run the mountains with the coach loaded and pulling your Hummer? Fine! Do you know how to determine what gear to use dropping off the other side? What? You're saying it depends? ON WHAT?!! How about it depends on whether you want to live or die??!!
There are any number of things concerning RVing that can make a bill you don't want to pay.

That's why I am thankful for this forum, and others. There are many people on them who know things which I do not.

About 20 years ago, I had to add SOP:

Verify that people who say they know, ACTUALLY KNOW.

Have you ever done this before? Did it work? What did you break doing it? How many extra dollars over budget was it?

Just recently I had a friend call me asking about a problem with a 30A pedestal. It had just been installed by a licensed electrician. They plugged in the RV and burnt up several appliances. Guess what? The electrician wired it for 220V, EVEN THOUGH HE WAS INFORMED VERBALLY AND IN WRITING IT WAS AN RV PEDESTAL. Why? He didn't know what he was doing.

I am sorry to say this is not the first time I have seen this happen.... or even the second, or third!

The world is evolving into a place where the people we depend on to be competent are increasingly incompetent.... and don't even KNOW IT!!

Please ask questions! Admit ignorance. I will be the first to say not only have I been ignorant, but occasionally I have been stupid!

I try not to be, but sometimes I just can't help it!

Find some old person & listen. Find someone who has done what you want to do and ask.

And last and most important, Those of you who DO know and HAVE done, PLEASE KEEP POSTING! We all need to hear it!

Rant over..... we now go back to the regularly scheduled programming.....

TOM

Re: 50amp RV power conversion to 220v household

Reply #10 – July 01, 2023, 08:52:22 am

What Dryer are you interested in?

Re: 50amp RV power conversion to 220v household

Reply #11 – July 01, 2023, 08:55:37 am

Check the first post he just said a 220 volt one.
Tom,you forgot one rule of thumb I use,Try not to spend $10 to save $5.

Re: 50amp RV power conversion to 220v household

Reply #12 – July 01, 2023, 09:38:36 am

Quote from: John44 – July 01, 2023, 08:55:37 am

Tom,you forgot one rule of thumb I use,Try not to spend $10 to save $5.

John, that's in my book too. It's right after "If you bought it on sale, you still spent money"

TOM

Re: 50amp RV power conversion to 220v household

Reply #13 – July 01, 2023, 11:40:03 am

Quote from: John44 – July 01, 2023, 08:55:37 am

Check the first post he just said a 220 volt

Let me be more specific.

What model and manufacturer of dryer are you looking at?

Re: 50amp RV power conversion to 220v household

Reply #14 – July 01, 2023, 01:38:49 pm

I understand the desire but our splendid did just fine over more than 20 years. Yes we sometimes split the load to dry but it would be better than retiring the coach and having to deal with that and the possibility of an overloaded neutral

Re: 50amp RV power conversion to 220v household

Reply #15 – July 01, 2023, 03:18:52 pm

IN REPLY #4 OldManSax said" every coach I have owned, that came with 50A service from the factory, had 220V to the breaker panel WHEN PLUGGED INTO A 50A PEDESTAL. A lot of coaches, including mine, have 220V when running the generator."

I agree that some (not all) 50A Pedestals have 240 volt and provide 240v to the breaker panel, however, I doubt that the generator in a Wonderlodge is wired to provide 240v to the breaker panel. I have not seen a Foretravel which has 240v to the breaker panel. My Powertech 10K generator in my 1996 Foretravel has the output wires from the two 120v armatures shorted together at the generator such that each armature provides exactly half of the amps required while the voltage control is only on one of the armatures. The uncontrolled armature will output the same voltage as the controlled armature because the amps are identical. The two hot wires (one black & one red) from the shorted armature output wires to the breaker panel will NOT carry the same current, while the neutral wire (white) from shunt to panel carries the sum of the amps of the two hots (ie the full generator output).

Question to OldManSax: Have you actually measured 240v at your breaker panel when powered by the generator? If you have, I am very curious as to how your generator provides both 240v and 120v to the breaker panel (ie switching circuitry or a transformer at the breaker panel).

Re: 50amp RV power conversion to 220v household

Reply #16 – July 01, 2023, 03:47:05 pm

To install a standard residential (ie 240v) dryer in a motorhome. Open the dryer and trace the wires. You will most likely find that the 240v heating element is composed of two 120v heating elements in series, if not, look at another 240v dryer. When you find a dryer with two 120v heating elements in series, disconnect the wires to the two elements and replace the 240v power cord with two 120v power cords. Run another circuit from your breaker panel (add a 20amp breaker to your panel) to the dryer. Now everything in your coach will work with the the generator or with a pseudo 240v pedestal (has "0" volts between the two hots).
Note that one of the 120v power cords from the dryer will provide amps for the motor as well as the 120v heating element, thus the reason for the new 20amp breaker.

Re: 50amp RV power conversion to 220v household

Reply #17 – July 01, 2023, 07:11:48 pm

I installed the Bosch Axxis washer and dryer years ago. I removed, and still have the original Splendide washer/dryer in my basement for emergency use.
The Bosch washer and dryer plug into each other and then to a 220v outlet. They do not plug in separately.
When I installed the washer/dryer I ran a second line from the breaker box and tied both lines to a 220v outlet. I have never felt good about this connection but everything worked fine.
Last year the washer stopped working but the dryer still ran fine.
The washer seems to have a board problem and because of the age is no longer available.
I could keep the dryer and find a new Bosch washer or dump the whole thing and buy something that runs on 120v, this is probably what I will do. R&R of the stacked washer/dryer is a pain and wrestling a washer in and out of the motorhome is a bear.
New units would be nice but the price tag now for these appliances is out of sight. coupled with the very poor reliability of new appliances makes me still consider just a washer replacement and not a new dryer too.
The Bosch units worked great so its hard to give up on them.

Re: 50amp RV power conversion to 220v household

Reply #18 – July 01, 2023, 08:34:48 pm

I like what Wyatt said but I believe you would need two 30 amp breakers and use
#10 wire. If I was going to use 240 volts I would get the power from before the
transfer switch so it would interfere with any of the other circuits but I like the
120 idea the best for the coach.

Re: 50amp RV power conversion to 220v household

Reply #19 – July 01, 2023, 09:26:58 pm

Quote from: P. Wyatt Sabourin – July 01, 2023, 03:18:52 pm

My Powertech 10K generator in my 1996 Foretravel has the output wires from the two 120v armatures shorted together at the generator such that each armature provides exactly half of the amps required while the voltage control is only on one of the armatures.

Question to OldManSax: Have you actually measured 240v at your breaker panel when powered by the generator? If you have, I am very curious as to how your generator provides both 240v and 120v to the breaker panel (ie switching circuitry or a transformer at the breaker panel).

Wyatt, Thanks for the post and question! This possibly is something I did not know,

but I am going to find out. Partial answer: YES! I know for a fact that the '72 MCI MC-7 (a converted bus) and the first two Wanderlodges I owned ('82 PT40 & '85 PT36) provided 220V from the generator. The electrical panel is wired exactly like a house panel with 2 legs of power. I bought the first PT with a failed generator and replaced the head myself. The second PT generator started giving me erratic voltage on one leg so I replaced that head as well. Both had 12KW Kohler generators with Perkins diesel engines. The engines will run forever but the heads were known failure points as they aged. Both heads were replaced with new 13KW heads from Central Georgia Generator. Great folks, I highly recommend them. HOWEVER, The '95 WB40 I now have has a POWERTECH generator. I have not actually had a meter on it, since it runs impeccably. That said, I strongly suspect it provides 220V as well. Reason being, Wanderlodges are known for having lots of gauges and redundant systems.

The generator has the usual oil pressure and water temperature gauges. It also has a voltage and an amperage gauge on each leg of power. My front AC and Center AC is on leg 1, the Rear AC is on leg 2. Microwave is on leg 2. I forget what leg the Insta-hot is on, but I remember seeing the gauges move when it cuts on. Same with the engine heater and the electric element for the refrigerator, Aquahot, and domestic hot water, along with the various heat tapes on the water lines. I can see the voltage and amperage fluctuation on each of the gauges while using the various appliances. So, although I have not checked for 220V yet, you can bet your bippy I'm gonna! And I am going to be very disappointed if it does not!

TOM

Re: 50amp RV power conversion to 220v household

Reply #20 – July 02, 2023, 03:40:35 pm

In Reply #17 Lon & Cheryl said " I ran a second line from the breaker box and tied both lines to a 220v outlet."
The reason I did not suggest wiring a 240v outlet using a red hot and a black hot from the breaker panel is because that would work when plugged into 240v, 50amp shore power, but probably not work when using the generator. Only using the washer/dryer with shore power makes sense because a washer uses 8 to 20 gallons per load which would quickly empty our fresh water tanks.

I said "probably not work when using the generator" because the way the washer/dryer was wired would affect what happens when powered from the generator.

My question to Lon: Is the neutral connecter in the 240v outlet used?

Re: 50amp RV power conversion to 220v household

Reply #21 – July 02, 2023, 07:52:10 pm

Thanks for your advice Wyatt.
It has been many years since I did the wiring, I will have to crawl in behind to check the 220 outlet.
I will report back after I take a look.
When I installed I used the (1 )110v service line that was already there for the washer ( old Splendide, factory install). I ran a second 110v line from the other side of the breaker box and installed a 220v breaker. I also installed a standard 220v dryer outlet by the washer/dryer using the old 110v line and the new 110v line.
I never intended to ever use the washer/dryer with the generator. As you point out, I only run the washer/dryer when I'm someplace that has a water and sewer connection, same as the Dishwasher use. That is why I imagined a Buddy plug type of hook up to only power the washer dryer when at a camp ground, completely separated from any other circuits in the Foretravel.

Re: 50amp RV power conversion to 220v household

Reply #22 – July 02, 2023, 11:50:13 pm

Here are some pictures of the wiring, I hope this clarifies.
The voltage reading on each side of the outlet mirror the voltage on each leg of the breaker box.

Re: 50amp RV power conversion to 220v household

Reply #23 – July 03, 2023, 07:01:12 am

Lon
If it were mine, I would use a 4 wire 30 amp circuit, this is the correct way to supply power to a dryer. The old 3 wire exception is no longer code on any new installations that I am aware of. The use of a 3 wire dryer outlet was an exception to the code that allowed the grounding conductor to be used as a neutral for the 120v needs of the dryer controls. The grounded conductor (neutral-white) should only be connected to the grounding conductor (green or bare copper) at the power source (your generator or the meter can of the power company).

Your photo shows that you have 4 conductors to the outlet, 2 red, white, green, look at your dryer connection and you should find two hot wires a white and green or bare conductor. If the green and white are connected there, separate them at the terminal connection and use a 4 wire dryer pigtail or "whip" to your 4 pole recepticle. This will keep your neutral and grounding conductors separate all the way back to your generator or the power pedistle.
This is the reason for the 50 amp power cord being a 4 conductor instead of a 3 conductor.

Re: 50amp RV power conversion to 220v household

Reply #24 – July 03, 2023, 07:23:21 am

With the ground and neutral being tied together at this dryer plug and the coach is at a newer RV park that has 50 amp outlets GFI protected, the breaker will trip.

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