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No Shore Power / ATS issue?

No Shore Power

I am experiencing the exact same issue as Dan, identical to how he described it four years ago. We needed to rearrange some items in our garage, providing a good excuse to take the coach out for a short run. About an hour later, I put it back in the garage and connected it to the same 50-amp outlet with the progressive EMS as usual. However, all of a sudden there is no shore power.
No lights on the factory line monitor from shore power, everything is identical to what Dan did, so there is power coming in, but the relay is not clicking to allow power through. I messed around with the hi/lo settings on that orange box (inside the Maverick ATS), but that did not yield the same result—still no shore power to the coach.

Considering T-Man's experience, should I proceed to order that orange voltage monitoring device, or are there other things I should be looking at beforehand?

Thanks,
Al
Former 2003 GV U295 (6230) (2015 - 2025)
Former 94 GV U225 (2013-2016)

Re: No Shore Power / ATS issue?

Reply #1 –
Dan, Thank you for your replay ( I moved it here thinking it would be best, since yours at the top has "solved"

" Have you read voltage on input side of the ATS and output side of the ATS (white box in reply 15 above)?  What voltage?

With your progressive EMS, is it on the shore outlet before the power cord, or hardwired inside after the Maverick system?  If the ems is external does it show voltage displays?

If your coach ATS white box in reply 15 has acceptable voltage power on input but none at all on output, I would try marking both orange boxes with current setting, then try adjusting both the hi and low pots (once again).

Does a light rap on the ATS have any affect?  In other words, could the ATS itself be sticking with nothing to do with the 2 orange boxes.

All wiring on ATS and orange boxes tight and well connected?


As you know, when working with live  power use insulated  tools, no rings on, and careful placement of hands/tools.

Your progressive ems and the 2 orange boxes have the same task of only letting acceptable voltage into the coach so are redundant. (With the progressive also having other capabilities beyond just voltage)."

So yes, there is power on the input side and reads same (122-124) and/or 1 or 2  volt lower than what the external plugged Progressive EMS. 

You wrote "So power was on the input  side, but ATS relay was not clicking to let power through.  The reason the relay would not engage was the orange hi/low voltage relay in the picture attached.  A slight adjustment on the high voltage pot (right side of the orange module) allowed the ATS relay to engage."  I wonder how low and high I can set it, as low as 110 and as high as 170-180 and see what happens (with nothing on in the coach / no demand)?
Former 2003 GV U295 (6230) (2015 - 2025)
Former 94 GV U225 (2013-2016)

Re: No Shore Power / ATS issue?

Reply #2 –
The external progressive ems will protect the coach.  You can adjust the 2 orange pots quite a bit since they are redundant.

However I would mark the pots adjustment first, then try a wide range.  If no effect, I would return them to original setting.

If the orange pot adjustment has no effect, then I would suspect the large white shore power ATS as well as the orange device.

Have you tried disconnecting shore power, then try a gen run to see if power makes it into the coach?
Dan - Full timing since 2009
2003 U320 40' Tag 2 slide

Re: No Shore Power / ATS issue?

Reply #3 –
Quote from: propman –


You wrote "So power was on the input  side, but ATS relay was not clicking to let power through.  The reason the relay would not engage was the orange hi/low voltage relay in the picture attached.  A slight adjustment on the high voltage pot (right side of the orange module) allowed the ATS relay to engage."  I wonder how low and high I can set it, as low as 110 and as high as 170-180 and see what happens (with nothing on in the coach / no demand)?

While you do have the Progressive unit to protect the coach for shore power, it does not protect if there's a voltage issue with the generator and should you ever have an issue with the Progressive EMS and need to put it into bypass mode, you'll need to rely on the transfer switch limits.  Those Maverick transfer switch pots can be safely adjusted to no less than 108 on the low and 132 on the high, which is the 120VAC +/- 10% that's safe for things like your air conditioners and microwave.  Going outside that range is not recommended even with the Progressive unit in place for those 2 reasons (protection for generator power issues and Progressive bypass mode). 

ETA - another reason not to adjust those pots too far out with the external Progressive is that when you go in for service and they plug the coach in, they're not going to be using the external surge protector.
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: No Shore Power / ATS issue?

Reply #4 –
The hardwired Progressive EMS 50 amp is so much nicer as the monitor shows error codes when it does not let power in.  The voltage parameters on it are shut off below 104 volts, and above 132 volts.
Dan - Full timing since 2009
2003 U320 40' Tag 2 slide

Re: No Shore Power / ATS issue?

Reply #5 –
For anyone wondering what devices are being discussed, this in basement bay behind a panel.
Dan - Full timing since 2009
2003 U320 40' Tag 2 slide

Re: No Shore Power / ATS issue?

Reply #6 –
If it turns out you need the relay, it's not cheap these days (up about $60 since I've been watching them over the last 3 years).  My coach has had a few times where it would not take power from the shore power and in some cases just pushing in on the white center part of the adjuster would get it to turn on.  Sometimes it took a few thumps and other times I had to rotate the knobs, then coming back to the original setting.

ATC Diversified Electronics - VBA-120-ALA - Votlage Monitoring Relay,...
Keith
2003 U320 38' #6197

Re: No Shore Power / ATS issue?

Reply #7 –
Al - does the coach have power when you run the generator?  I didn't see it mentioned.

On a 2003, the primary/priority power source is generator, so the relay that passes power to the coach will need to be "pulled/energized" by power on shore input.  As Dan suggests (tapping), one of the relays could be sticking or may have failed.

Shore power also goes through the Intermatic surge protection device.



Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: No Shore Power / ATS issue?

Reply #8 –
Quote from: AC7880 –

Have you tried disconnecting shore power, then try a gen run to see if power makes it into the coach?

YES :-) Got power as normal when Generator run. Intermatic Surge Protection lights came on too with power from Generator.
Former 2003 GV U295 (6230) (2015 - 2025)
Former 94 GV U225 (2013-2016)

Re: No Shore Power / ATS issue?

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Michelle –
Al - does the coach have power when you run the generator?  I didn't see it mentioned.

Al = Yes

As Dan suggests (tapping), one of the relays could be sticking or may have failed.

Al = How tap the Orange box or the bigger white "shore" one?

Shore power also goes through the Intermatic surge protection device.

Al = Yes, it lit up when Generator Run.
Former 2003 GV U295 (6230) (2015 - 2025)
Former 94 GV U225 (2013-2016)

Re: No Shore Power / ATS issue?

Reply #10 –
OK, so it's probably not the orange hi/low pots.

Seems like one of the Siemens relays/contactors might be the issue.  That would be what Dan suggested tapping.  It could be the generator not releasing or the shore not pulling closed.  Or it could be debris/corrosion/etching on the contacts in the shore power contactor (relay). 

Maverick transfer switch, need Siemens Sirius contactor part number

transfer switch will not engage on shore power
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: No Shore Power / ATS issue?

Reply #12 –
Quote from: propman –
SIEMENS Shore side inside ATS will not engage and when forced manually will not stay latched

Looks like I need to get a 3RT1045-1A?
First, with all power removed, no gen no shore, I would check all wiring contact points for tightness and corrosion.  You "could" even switch the incoming shore power lines and gen power lines on the two white ATS boxes. If the problem moves (shore gets through, gen does not) then you know for sure it is the ATS white box.

Make real sure no power on either set of lines if you try the swap test.  Take photos in advance of the wiring scheme and perhaps mark each wire with tape/pen.
Dan - Full timing since 2009
2003 U320 40' Tag 2 slide

Re: No Shore Power / ATS issue?

Reply #14 –
Just watched your you tube video. Looks like you found the defective part. 

If it were me, I would still try switching incoming power between the two of them to be 100 percent sure.  Plus, if that is it,  that way you can be on shore power via the gen labled device until parts show up.
Dan - Full timing since 2009
2003 U320 40' Tag 2 slide

Re: No Shore Power / ATS issue?

Reply #15 –
Quote from: propman –
SIEMENS Shore side inside ATS will not engage and when forced manually will not stay latched

Looks like I need to get a 3RT1045-1A?
Tom Lang said: "It appears the 3RT1045-1A was only made with a 120 volt coil. I could only find one on eBay, and it was used.

It is now made with a number of coil voltages, the 120 volt version being 3RT1045-1AK60"

Maverick transfer switch, need Siemens Sirius contactor part number
Dan - Full timing since 2009
2003 U320 40' Tag 2 slide

Re: No Shore Power / ATS issue?

Reply #16 –
If it all works on the generator, then perhaps the priority relay is not switching.  You have power to the input of the ATS, and you know the voltage is within range and the range relay works with the generator.  I had to replace mine.  Here's the link to one vendor:  https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/te-connectivity-potter-brumfield-relays/T92P11A22-120/365926

Keith
2003 U320 38' #6197

Re: No Shore Power / ATS issue?

Reply #17 –
Quote from: WS6_Keith –
If it all works on the generator, then perhaps the priority relay is not switching.  You have power to the input of the ATS, and you know the voltage is within range and the range relay works with the generator.  I had to replace mine.  Here's the link to one vendor:  https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/te-connectivity-potter-brumfield-relays/T92P11A22-120/365926
Thank you Keith. When I push and hold down the 4/black things (don't know what they are called, I posted a video in my replay #11) works, however magnet is not holding it down. I found a video ATS Magnetic Contactor Teardown & clean I plan on taking it apart today and see how it goes.
Former 2003 GV U295 (6230) (2015 - 2025)
Former 94 GV U225 (2013-2016)

Re: No Shore Power / ATS issue?

Reply #18 –
On the contact there are two terminals for the coil. When the coil gets power it pulls the contacts in. If you have power on these terminals and contacts are not pulled in you have a bad coil.  They use to be able to buy new coil and install.  Not sure that can still be done.
2014 ih45  (4th Foretravel owned)
 1997 36' U295 Sold in 2020, owned for 19 years
  U240 36' Sold to insurance company after melting in garage fire
    33' Foretravel on Dodge Chassis  Sold very long time ago

Re: No Shore Power / ATS issue?

Reply #19 –
Quote from: propman –
Thank you Keith. When I push and hold down the 4/black things (don't know what they are called, I posted a video in my replay #11) works, however magnet is not holding it down. I found a video ATS Magnetic Contactor Teardown & clean I plan on taking it apart today and see how it goes.
Basically you are manually actuating the ATS to connect the contacts from the input to the output.

I don't have my manual here, but if you have yours, look at the wiring schematic.  There is a wire from the priority selection relay that tells the shore power ATS not to connect if the Gen input has power.  As a test, WITHOUT your generator running, you could swap these.  This would now give priority to the shore power instead of the generator.  Since that is the default, if the relay is bad, now the shore power will work and the generator will not.
Keith
2003 U320 38' #6197

Re: No Shore Power / ATS issue?

Reply #20 –
Quote from: WS6_Keith –
There is a wire from the priority selection relay that tells the shore power ATS not to connect if the Gen input has power.  As a test, WITHOUT your generator running, you could swap these.  This would now give priority to the shore power instead of the generator.  Since that is the default, if the relay is bad, now the shore power will work and the generator will not.

Now you are telling me this :-) I just took the whole thing out and on the bench (See pictures). I am going to clean it tomorrow and maybe put it back in the coach, or I may just test it without completely installing it in its place (I have 6AWG and 4 AWG wire I can create sort of jumper cable — trust me, I can pass as an electrician on a good day.

Questions:

If I decide to chuck the Maverick ATS box and convert to a manual switching system, what would I have to get? I don't know what to shop for.
If I do that, what will need to happen to the Maverick box that is under the bed (see picture with yellow "under the bed")?
Thank you,
Al 
Former 2003 GV U295 (6230) (2015 - 2025)
Former 94 GV U225 (2013-2016)

Re: No Shore Power / ATS issue?

Reply #21 –
For resale, I would recommend repair or replace of an automatic transfer switch, not a manual set of switches.  Once you start deviating from expected, you limit your potential buyer pool (and make it more difficult for service techs who expect a "normal" transfer switch.)  And remember, you don't want the generator backfeeding into shore power, so you need to make sure manual ones lock out that possibility.

The second transfer switch under the bed is for shore/inverter input to the inverted circuits.  It happens to be the same "brand", but isn't directly affected.
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: No Shore Power / ATS issue?

Reply #22 –
Quote from: Michelle –
For resale, I would recommend repair or replace of an automatic transfer switch, not a manual set of switches.  Once you start deviating from expected, you limit your potential buyer pool (and make it more difficult for service techs who expect a "normal" transfer switch.)  And remember, you don't want the generator backfeeding into shore power, so you need to make sure manual ones lock out that possibility.

The second transfer switch under the bed is for shore/inverter input to the inverted circuits.  It happens to be the same "brand", but isn't directly affected.
Thank you Michelle. I am no longer overly concerned about resale value of anything I have  ;)  I try to make things better than how I found it while making it easier and long lasting for my own use.  I am hoping I can fix the Maverick ATS but if I could not, what are my options, Maverick is no longer in business.  Thank you, Al
!
After a good night's sleep: The Maverick ATS is simply the box, designed and fitted quite well, and easy to work on. All the parts inside are still relatively available. As I prefer to maintain all things as original as possible, I hope to get some more service out of the Maverick ATS.
Former 2003 GV U295 (6230) (2015 - 2025)
Former 94 GV U225 (2013-2016)

Re: No Shore Power / ATS issue?

Reply #23 –
Progress
Former 2003 GV U295 (6230) (2015 - 2025)
Former 94 GV U225 (2013-2016)

Re: No Shore Power / ATS issue?

Reply #24 –
Well, I cleaned, checked, and reassembled it. Then, I installed it back in the coach, but unfortunately, there is still no shore power. Before I resort to replacing parts, could you please review the pictures of the Relay (T92P11A22-120) and inform me of the potential consequences if I swap the Red (Shoreline) and White and Black (Generator) wires for testing? I believe this component controls the priority order.

Thank you,
Al
Former 2003 GV U295 (6230) (2015 - 2025)
Former 94 GV U225 (2013-2016)