Need help, still slow starting

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Need help, still slow starting

March 01, 2024, 03:37:32 pm

Hello everyone. I am still having a problem with a slow start. Mike and I have checked everything we know to check and cannot seem to run this bug down.

Currently:
•   (3) new start batteries. Charged 7 confirmed full.
•   Cleaned all connections thoroughly.
•   Had starter checked, in perfect shape, no issues.
•   Alternator working fine.
•   Battery cables are shedding their insulation in a couple places but nothing crazy. We taped them up good for now until I get them replaced.

Here's the interesting thing. It sits in covered storage with a trickle charger all the time. Once a month, I go get it and take it for a stroll just to keep things lubricated and working well. Every time I start it monthly, it starts immediately. However, no matter how much I drive it during that day, it is always slow starting from then on. It's a 270 with plain ol 8.3, nothing fancy.
Can anyone think of something I have missed that I should check?
Thanks

Re: Need help, still slow starting

Reply #1 – March 01, 2024, 03:45:55 pm

Does it take a long time to start or is it a slow starter motor? Big difference in trouble shooting.

Re: Need help, still slow starting

Reply #2 – March 01, 2024, 04:43:05 pm

So it starts quickly when cold, but not so quick when hot?

Could be a heat soak problem of some kind...but I can't guess where it would be.

Not the same as a gasoline engine where the fuel can vaporize in the carb and fuel lines.

When hot, does it spin over better with the boost switch turned on?

Re: Need help, still slow starting

Reply #3 – March 01, 2024, 05:30:57 pm

Quote from: craneman – March 01, 2024, 03:45:55 pm

Does it take a long time to start or is it a slow starter motor? Big difference in trouble shooting.

It starts it is just slow. It acts like a a low battery but again, all my batteries are new, been tested and retested.

Re: Need help, still slow starting

Reply #4 – March 01, 2024, 05:33:29 pm

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – March 01, 2024, 04:43:05 pm

So it starts quickly when cold, but not so quick when hot?

Could be a heat soak problem of some kind...but I can't guess where it would be.

Not the same as a gasoline engine where the fuel can vaporize in the carb and fuel lines.

When hot, does it spin over better with the boost switch turned on?

Chuck,
Typically, when it is cold it's the same. However, while on the trickle charge and not having been started for a month or so, the first time, it fires right up instantly. If it sits overnight and is cold the next morning, it is still slow. Only when it sits on the trickle charger for a month or so and only the first time will it start right up like it should.

Re: Need help, still slow starting

Reply #5 – March 01, 2024, 05:44:53 pm

Maybe it is a bad starter.

Re: Need help, still slow starting

Reply #6 – March 01, 2024, 06:41:12 pm

Did you clean all your ground connections,one on the frame near the hyd pump,one on the engine that those cables go to and one
on one of the starter bolts,and did you check your air filter.

Follow-ups
- Beeping

Re: Need help, still slow starting

Reply #7 – March 01, 2024, 06:52:18 pm

Quote from: oldguy – March 01, 2024, 05:44:53 pm

Maybe it is a bad starter.

Starter was opened up and checked out perfect. We have a old school alternator / starter guy who has been doing these forever. He looked it over and could not find any issues.

Re: Need help, still slow starting

Reply #8 – March 01, 2024, 06:53:37 pm

Quote from: John44 – March 01, 2024, 06:41:12 pm

Did you clean all your ground connections,one on the frame near the hyd pump,one on the engine that those cables go to and one
on one of the starter bolts,and did you check your air filter.

Cleaned every connection. Have not checked the air filter, I would think if it was that plugged up, the engine would not run at all. I will go ahead and check it though, thanks

Re: Need help, still slow starting

Reply #9 – March 01, 2024, 07:02:46 pm

Have you tried using the boost switch for start? You don't say what type/brand start batteries you have.

Re: Need help, still slow starting

Reply #10 – March 01, 2024, 07:14:00 pm

Several months ago I was working on a 98 u270. It was slow starting and there was a charge issue too. I found that the insulation on both cables from the batteries to the starter looked like they had gotten hot and the insulation was cracked and falling off in places. I replaced the old 3/0 cables with new 4/0 cables and also the connection posts that are on the frame by the batteries. Charge issues fixed and it now starts quickly like an 8.3 should.

Re: Need help, still slow starting

Reply #11 – March 01, 2024, 08:13:50 pm

Right . Fair chance that the cables are compromised. Try new.
Also. Possible slight injector leak that drips fuel , forcing a high starter load to rotate the wet engine . ??

Re: Need help, still slow starting

Reply #12 – March 02, 2024, 09:14:24 am

Quote from: red tractor – March 01, 2024, 07:14:00 pm

Several months ago I was working on a 98 u270. It was slow starting and there was a charge issue too. I found that the insulation on both cables from the batteries to the starter looked like they had gotten hot and the insulation was cracked and falling off in places. I replaced the old 3/0 cables with new 4/0 cables and also the connection posts that are on the frame by the batteries. Charge issues fixed and it now starts quickly like an 8.3 should.

I have exactly the same situation and I am planning to replace the cables soon. I am hoping that fixes it as we cannot come up with any other reason for this. I have also installed 2 new cable standoffs to the frame at the batteries.

So you replaced ALL the battery cables with 4/0 ? Did you source them locally or did you order in bulk online?

Re: Need help, still slow starting

Reply #13 – March 02, 2024, 09:16:35 am

Quote from: Woody & Sitka – March 01, 2024, 07:02:46 pm

Have you tried using the boost switch for start? You don't say what type/brand start batteries you have.

Woody,
Yes, we tried the boost switch with no change. Seems like it just isn't getting enough juice to the starter. I think the batteries are all group 34's. I replaced them all back on Oct.

Re: Need help, still slow starting

Reply #14 – March 02, 2024, 09:52:13 am

Think I would get the cables now,you need them soon enough,that may be the problem.

Re: Need help, still slow starting

Reply #15 – March 02, 2024, 02:34:13 pm

I would suspect that the starter is wonky. And no offense to your starter shop guy. But if the starter spins fast and the engine fires up quickly when cold but spins slowly when warm. That would lead me to think that as things expand within the starter. It will bring out issues with increased resistance or even a loss of connection in some of the windings in the armature.

I had the slow spinning issue. put in new starter and BAM. It spins like a Dremel tool. Well, maybe not that fast.

Starters are pretty cheap. A standard Delco for my coach was $425.

Re: Need help, still slow starting

Reply #16 – March 02, 2024, 03:37:35 pm

I've got a sister coach to yours. I've done everything you have done and mine turns slow when warm. I throw the boost switch and it spins faster. Been that way for seven years and 60,000 miles.

Re: Need help, still slow starting

Reply #17 – March 02, 2024, 05:57:49 pm

We also through a lot of things to fix a slow crank including rebuilding starter. Only a new Leese Neville starter fixed it forever on. We did not change to a different gear starter and did not use a generic rebuild starter. Also measured battery voltage during a cranking episode. With no change with boost, likely it is starter.

Re: Need help, still slow starting

Reply #18 – March 02, 2024, 06:42:46 pm

Quote from: John44 – March 02, 2024, 09:52:13 am

Think I would get the cables now,you need them soon enough,that may be the problem.

I agree John, Thanks

Re: Need help, still slow starting

Reply #19 – March 02, 2024, 06:44:48 pm

Quote from: bigdog – March 02, 2024, 02:34:13 pm

I would suspect that the starter is wonky. And no offense to your starter shop guy. But if the starter spins fast and the engine fires up quickly when cold but spins slowly when warm. That would lead me to think that as things expand within the starter. It will bring out issues with increased resistance or even a loss of connection in some of the windings in the armature.

I had the slow spinning issue. put in new starter and BAM. It spins like a Dremel tool. Well, maybe not that fast.

Starters are pretty cheap. A standard Delco for my coach was $425.

Thanks Jerry, I am going to try cables first since they are bad, If that doesn't work, I will be taking another look at the start for sure

Re: Need help, still slow starting

Reply #20 – March 02, 2024, 06:46:07 pm

Quote from: Realmccoy – March 02, 2024, 03:37:35 pm

I've got a sister coach to yours. I've done everything you have done and mine turns slow when warm. I throw the boost switch and it spins faster. Been that way for seven years and 60,000 miles.

I am suspecting my boost solenoid is also shot but once I get new cables, I will be looking closer at that solenoid as well. Thanks

Re: Need help, still slow starting

Reply #21 – March 02, 2024, 06:48:30 pm

Quote from: Barry & Cindy – March 02, 2024, 05:57:49 pm

We also through a lot of things to fix a slow crank including rebuilding starter. Only a new Leese Neville starter fixed it forever on. We did not change to a different gear starter and did not use a generic rebuild starter. Also measured battery voltage during a cranking episode. With no change with boost, likely it is starter.

Thanks Barry. I am going to cables first and see what happens. If not change, I will probably take a look at the starter again. I sure hope it not the starter, that thing was a bear to get back in with mine and Mike's bad backs.

Re: Need help, still slow starting

Reply #22 – March 02, 2024, 07:20:09 pm

Bad cables are easy to diagnose. Check voltage drop between battery end and starter when someone activates the starter.

If more than 1 volt, yup, replace and upsize if you can.

Check ground/negative side as well.

Re: Need help, still slow starting

Reply #23 – March 02, 2024, 07:27:10 pm

Got 4/0 cable and terminals and made all new from the starter to the batteries. I also replaced the boost solenoid and the isolator. When trying to remove the nuts holding the cable terminal to a component most of the time it twisted off. Good luck with your problem.

Re: Need help, still slow starting

Reply #24 – March 02, 2024, 07:29:33 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – March 02, 2024, 07:20:09 pm

Bad cables are easy to diagnose. Check voltage drop between battery end and starter when someone activates the starter.

If more than 1 volt, yup, replace and upsize if you can.

Check ground/negative side as well.

Will do, thanks Wolfe

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