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Topic: lithium ion batteries (Read 692 times) previous topic - next topic

lithium ion batteries

Hello All

It's time to replace my inverter and my house batteries on my 1995 U-300.

I'm buying the Xantrex 3012 3K watt inverter with the new control panel,

My question to you guy's has anyone converted to lithium ion batteries?

The cost is steep and I understand that but at the end of the day has anyone installed them and have they worked OK?

I look forward to any input you may have.

Andrew
Andrew Buras
Full Timing Since July 2007
1995 U-300 Lived in it for 14 years and now back in it.
Build #4627
Towing 2015 Ford Flex
Still on the road

Re: lithium ion batteries

Reply #1 –
I have the same inverter and lipo4 lithium batteries. There is a custom setting on the inverter to set the parameters to what the lithium battery manufacturer recommends.
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: lithium ion batteries

Reply #2 –
Besides for setting the parameters which I understand I need to do, where there any setbacks?
Andrew Buras
Full Timing Since July 2007
1995 U-300 Lived in it for 14 years and now back in it.
Build #4627
Towing 2015 Ford Flex
Still on the road

Re: lithium ion batteries

Reply #3 –
None that we have encountered over three years now. If you store the coach plugged in turn off the charging function the batteries don't need to be constantly charged when stored.
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: lithium ion batteries

Reply #4 –
Great Thanks for the feedback and heads up about storage
Andrew Buras
Full Timing Since July 2007
1995 U-300 Lived in it for 14 years and now back in it.
Build #4627
Towing 2015 Ford Flex
Still on the road

Re: lithium ion batteries

Reply #5 –
I upgraded to 2 Epoch 460 amp/hr batteries using the same Xantrex a 3012. We take our first trip next week. Saved about 300 lbs replacing the 3 8D batteries. I'm impressed with the Epoch batteries with built in BMS, Bluetooth, and heaters. I used a LiTime 60 amp DC to DC to charge the Epoch batteries while driving to protest the alternator. Haven't driven any distance yet so the LiTime isn't proved to work as advertised. We won't have any trouble dry camping overnight now. Today the coach was unplugged most of the day with the residential refrigerator and some lights on, used 15% of capacity. No plans for solar cells. These batteries charge much faster than lead acid batteries.
There's some issues to work through during the install, the one issue I haven't worked out is the boost switch. Now the alternator goes straight to the DC to DC charger with no way to back feed to the engine batteries. Not a problem as long as the engine batteries are strong.
David Bethard
2003 U320 - 40ft. Build #6159
ISM 500hp
2006 Jeep Liberty CRD
2021 Honda Goldwing DCT

Re: lithium ion batteries

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Modern Day Jipzee –
Great Thanks for the feedback and heads up about storage

I replaced the isolator with a dc to dc charger to protect the alternator.  Lithium batteries can take a high amperage charge from the alternator and possibly burn it up.  The dc to dc charger limits the amount of amps to an amount that the alternator can safely provide.  I used a 30 amp one from Victron.


2000 GV320 4010 build #5712  2019-?
1999 Bounder 2000-2008
Bardstown, KY
🥃The Bourbon Capital of the World🥃

Re: lithium ion batteries

Reply #7 –
Not sure about where you are located but mine is stored in below freezing temperatures. How does everyone handle that? That has been the main reason I have not entertained upgrading. I know they have heated ones but what if you have no power? Removing the batteries seems crazy to me.
Jeff & Carolyn
1999 36ft. U320 Foretravel

Re: lithium ion batteries

Reply #8 –
I have installed a disconnect on them and my start batteries, when in storage I shut them down at about 60% SOC. We have a few days below zero but not many in KY. If I am using the coach and it's freezing weather I have miscalculated badly😂. That being said I overnighted in Amarillo at 15f and the bay where my batteries are was 45f at 7am, they create some of there own heat when they are under load.  Mine have no heating.

2000 GV320 4010 build #5712  2019-?
1999 Bounder 2000-2008
Bardstown, KY
🥃The Bourbon Capital of the World🥃

Re: lithium ion batteries

Reply #9 –
Quote from: RvingJeff –
Not sure about where you are located but mine is stored in below freezing temperatures. How does everyone handle that? That has been the main reason I have not entertained upgrading. I know they have heated ones but what if you have no power? Removing the batteries seems crazy to me.

Lithium's can be stored below freezing. They just can't be charged below freezing but can put out power which would raise their temperature. Most commercial ones have low temp cutoffs to prevent charging below freezling.
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: lithium ion batteries

Reply #10 –
Hey All

Thanks for all the feed back, I'm wondering maybe I should stay with the stock MK batteries I've been using over the years.

Is the extra expense worth it, Does the end justify the means?

I spoke to Chad at Foretravel and he has heard of alternators burning up when using Lithium batteries'

That being said has anyone heard of a guy in Illinois that does the lithium-Ion conversions?

Thanks Again
Andrew Buras
Full Timing Since July 2007
1995 U-300 Lived in it for 14 years and now back in it.
Build #4627
Towing 2015 Ford Flex
Still on the road

Re: lithium ion batteries

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Modern Day Jipzee –
1. I'm wondering maybe I should stay with the stock MK batteries I've been using over the years.
2. Is the extra expense worth it,
3. Does the end justify the means?
4. I spoke to Chad at Foretravel and he has heard of alternators burning up when using Lithium batteries'
5. That being said has anyone heard of a guy in Illinois that does the lithium-Ion conversions?

Andrew,
1, 2, & 3 are all related to how you use your coach. These are my thoughts and some will disagree as they have there own thoughts.
If you go from pole to pole. probably not
If you are a weekender  no side also
I you think you can get your investment back  No
If you plan on selling in a couple of years  No
If you just want to brag about your system then it might be worth it in your mind.
There are most likely several others that I could think of if I wanted to.

Now If you dry camp and spend a lot of time off grid and are planning on keeping the coach then Yes the cost of a swap over is worth it.

4. I have an alternator off a coach in the shop that they burnt up with gel batteries, it's not so much the battery as it is how you use/abuse the alternator. If the standard alternator (not a heavy duty aftermarket) is having to run at or near 100% for an extended period of time it is going to fail.

5. You can DIY as several here as done. If you can play dot to dot then with the help of some here on the Forum you can save some $ by DIY so don't sell yourself short.

Mike
Pamela & Mike 97 U 320

"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters."

Re: lithium ion batteries

Reply #12 –
Thanks Mike

That really sums it up for me, not worth it.

I'm 69 years old my current MK batteries were installed 2/2015 and still get me thought an overnight in a rest area.

I'll go back with them,

Take Care and thanks to all for their ideas

Andrew
Andrew Buras
Full Timing Since July 2007
1995 U-300 Lived in it for 14 years and now back in it.
Build #4627
Towing 2015 Ford Flex
Still on the road

Re: lithium ion batteries

Reply #13 –
Lithium batteries are coming down in price and moving from some of the preferred brands they can actually more cost effective then AGM. Major benefits include better utilization of rated A/H capacity and more linear charging profile, efficiency. For daily use no need for that absorption period. Take 100 A/H out, run generator for an hour with a 100 A/H charger and most of the power is back. There is also the weight savings.  Considerations are cold weather winter use and alternator loading. As Lithium's have a very high charge acceptance and most alternator systems are only voltage based other controls could be needed. My recently acquired 2008 Nimbus 3 of the 4DL lifeline batteries, 2019. I just upgraded the Inverter with the 3000 Watt/150 A/H charger which really helped when charging off the generator. Winter, freezing temps, using the heat and watching some TV, after 2 days, house battery bank won't start generator. I'm also thinking dedicated generator start battery.

Dennis From Bohemia NY
2008 Nimbus 342
Dennis Haynes
Bohemia NY
2008 Nimbus 342 SE Carlyle
Build #6475
Motorcade #19148

Re: lithium ion batteries

Reply #14 –
When I had the Monaco the generator started and ran off the chassis battery and the generator
would quit while starting the engine because of the voltage drop. Running your batteries down
so they won't start the generator is probably hard on your batteries and in real cold weather they
could freeze.
Peter and Frieda Morin
1999 36ft. U320 Foretravel
Build # 5436
1998 Suzuki Sidekick Sport

Re: lithium ion batteries

Reply #15 –
FYI most the the newer LiFePO4 batteries have built in BMS systems and heaters to allow the battery to be charged during freezing temps. The BMS (battery management system) keeps the cell voltages balanced.  The batteries still work if below freezing but should not be charged if the battery temp is below freezing, that's why the heaters.
David Bethard
2003 U320 - 40ft. Build #6159
ISM 500hp
2006 Jeep Liberty CRD
2021 Honda Goldwing DCT

Re: lithium ion batteries

Reply #16 –
I have the same Zantrex and my AGM's are just fine.
1996 U295-36, Cummins 300hp, 8.3. Build number 4864. Vin number 1F97D536XTNO54271. Purchased October 31, 2019.