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Topic: Pure sine wave. Drives the AC  (Read 723 times) previous topic - next topic

Pure sine wave. Drives the AC

I've had two of these.  The big unit just started putting out 109 volts and shutting Down .

Re: Pure sine wave. Drives the AC

Reply #1
Just ordered a VEvor version.  The dead one is 3 yrs old.

Re: Pure sine wave. Drives the AC

Reply #2
I have an 1000w Edecoa that has been carrying a refer. for several years. The load swing is a lot less than what you have along with the percent of load. I bought this one to experiment with but it looks like it turned into a permeant piece. I have been quite satisfied but will keep a closer watch now that you have brought this up.

Mike
Pamela & Mike 97 U 320

"It's not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters."

Re: Pure sine wave. Drives the AC

Reply #3
I bought the 1000 watt Edeoa when I installed the resi fridge.  It still works perfect.
I was so happy with it a bought the 3000 to run the minisplit .  It runs fine going down the road with input from the Delco alto plus the 2000 wats of solar. 
But for some reason, in the sun , running the 1000 watts draw if the ac , it puts out low voltage and shuts  down.
The battery pack still reads well into the mid 13 or more. 
I'm not sure why. 
I hate failure. 

Re: Pure sine wave. Drives the AC

Reply #4
You may not have enough battery capacity, or the cabling is not adequate. Running the engine gives support from the alternator. For a 3000 watt inverter you need 300 A/H to support that load continuously. AGM/Flooded batteries ideally should be sized for a max 25% discharge rate. To support a 3000 watt inverter near full load that means 1,200 A/H battery capacity. Lithium based much more efficient and limited by the BMS. For surges you want enough battery to provide 400 A/H if you go lithium. Then based on run time needed calculate what you need. As voltage drops have greater effects in low voltage circuits 4/0 cable is probably best choice from battery bank to inverters. Back to the basics, what is the voltage at the inverter when it is trying to feed that load?

Dennis
From Bohemia
2008 Nimbus 342
Dennis Haynes
Bohemia NY
2008 Nimbus 342 SE Carlyle
Build #6475
Motorcade #19148

Re: Pure sine wave. Drives the AC

Reply #5
I would assume that under a heavy load the inverter is toasty hot?  My limited knowledge of those inverters would lead me to think that if it's 85% efficient that that's it's getting really hot. Maybe/probably derating internally? Maybe try a cooling fan on it just to test.

As an example my looking at various inverter/chargers when i was replacing my Heart freedom 2500 original equipment unit the various available units varied in many ways. Some valued effeciency hence using smaller physical sized transformers and cooling fans and areas internally where there operating systems monitored temps and weighed x amount.

Other units valued higher continuous power output with a much heavier internal transformer setup and larger cooling fans.

Your unit uses transistors as I understand to convert 12 volt into 120 volt. Hence the lighter weight and potentially a different ability to large large percentages of its rated output for longer times.

Early 2000 unicoaches had their heavier transformers inverter/charger mounted on the rear vertical wall of the last compartment and had added a vertical mounted cooling fan that blew air over the inverters cooling air input area to assist their inverters cooling not to derate.

Not sure how that fan was triggered. My inverter/charger has a dedicated separate output to power an external whatever separate from its normal output in either 12v ot 120v.

My inverter and most of the similar upper 50 pound weight various manufacturers inverter/chargers used dual transformer coils and dual variable speed ball bearing cooling fans internally and had multiple internal monitoring areas to monitor various internal component temps. If they were getting too hot they would increase their internal cooling fans speeds and if the heating increased they would start to derate their output.

Maybe an external additional cooling fan would allow a large load for longer term?

I am thinking that your large load on your unit maybe causing the unit to output lower voltage as it's derating method?

Second thought was to run its output into a Hughes autoformer as it will take 109 volts and through its windings in its potted transformer loops change low voltage back to 120 volts.  Versus low voltage shore power the same idea could restore a low voltage output inverter I assume.

I maybe incorrect in how your inverter is constructed and how it works but in the rest of the inverter/chargers I researched they varied internally in their designs where some favored efficiency and reduced their internal component sizes and cooling system and other used much heavier internal components and cooling capacities to be able to put out larger loads for longer times in warmer operating conditions without derating.

Some inverters have fairly minimal indication on their operating panels that they are derating. Warning lights.

Others show the actual amount.

Cooling fan seems easy. Foretravel added  a panel mounted external  cooling fan system to its heavy transformer and cooling fan inverter/chargers to lessen derating under hot conditions and heavy loading.

"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Pure sine wave. Drives the AC

Reply #6
The no Laod voltage output is only 110.  I believe it has a faulty sensor or internal fault.
The panel shows operating temp.  It has its own fan that sometimes runs.  It was not hot. The  side box has an air inlet under this inverter and an exit air cooling fan.  It's a smal car radiator fan with its own controller.
The AC load is only about 1000 watts at full power. Maybe a little more but not near the inverter rating.
The inverter itself has very low transfer

Inumbers  . Very efficient on paper.
It has worked fine up until now. 
The batt cables are short and stout.  Much larger than the inverter supplied cables . None of the cables were warm. But I did not check the connection s.  Will do that in a few.
This system has worked fine in more heat for about  two years.  All of the fans running for cooling , the AC running well .
Thanks for all of your suggestions and I will look into each point.
The static 110 volt output  leads me to believe some unit failure.
The batts never read low voltage. But the inverter shuts off at maybe 12.3 , but never had.

The batts are Li Iron at about 400 ah .
Solar is around 2000 watts .

Re: Pure sine wave. Drives the AC

Reply #7
110 does sound like a fault.
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Pure sine wave. Drives the AC

Reply #8
The no Laod voltage output is only 110.  I believe it has a faulty sensor or internal fault.

What is the load voltage?
Tim Dianics
Pam Sapienza
Vader PupZilla Labrador Canine Beast (AKA Pup)
Columbia, MO
1996 U320 4000
2021 Jeep Gladiator, Diesel

Re: Pure sine wave. Drives the AC

Reply #9
I assume there is only so many hours of transistor life under load.  You have Charles whites old coach do you not?
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Pure sine wave. Drives the AC

Reply #10
I assume there is only so many hours of transistor life under load.  You have Charles whites old coach do you not?
I have no idea who owned this prior . What number did he have ?
These inverters are both less than 5 yrs. 
My only spike may be my blender on the big watt line .

This morning static output reads 115. 
Plugged in the ac.  The panel shows 10 amps draw. 
It looks like solar maintains the volts around 13.3 or so. 
I  turned the compartment exhaust fan on and the inverter temp shows 48c and fan on. 
It's still working and output reads. 114
 Low but in range . The 1000 watt inverter shows 121.  Pretty much always .
Maybe there an adjustment for out put. 

Re: Pure sine wave. Drives the AC

Reply #11
You may not have enough battery capacity, or the cabling is not adequate. Running the engine gives support from the alternator. For a 3000 watt inverter you need 300 A/H to support that load continuously. AGM/Flooded batteries ideally should be sized for a max 25% discharge rate. To support a 3000 watt inverter near full load that means 1,200 A/H battery capacity. Lithium based much more efficient and limited by the BMS. For surges you want enough battery to provide 400 A/H if you go lithium. Then based on run time needed calculate what you need. As voltage drops have greater effects in low voltage circuits 4/0 cable is probably best choice from battery bank to inverters. Back to the basics, what is the voltage at the inverter when it is trying to feed that load?

Dennis
From Bohemia
2008 Nimbus 342
The batteries are rated 185 ah each -(2)
The solar is rated around 1900 watts
The batt cables to inverter are -2 and 3 ft or less
There may be some sort of engineering conflict with the inverter driving the inverter powered minisplit.
The Spec stated pure sign wave but some resources call it. Modified sine wave. 
There appear to be both.  I bought a pure sine version.
Maybe I'm mismatched some where

  The static 114 leads me to a faulty unit. But I could be the problem.
  The cables get warmer than I like at full power.  I will change them out.   

Re: Pure sine wave. Drives the AC

Reply #12
Maybe I have a connection or cable issue. ? Both inverters are wired from the same buss bars but one input shows. 13.4 while the ac power inverter shows 12.8-9. 
Today it shows 118 volts. Out and 12.9 in. Fan on at 50c. 7.7 amps load.

Re: Pure sine wave. Drives the AC

Reply #13
So I upped the cable sizes and snugged alll of the c connection s.  Same under load. Drops from 114 to 109.  Always with enough battery voltage indicated on all meters.

Re: Pure sine wave. Drives the AC

Reply #14
Installed  the Vevor 3500 pure sine wave  . It's a bit larger than the Edecoa . It's also rated T 7000 surge and 3500 continuous. Nice. 
    It shows load at 1200 watts for the AC as it starts and cruise at around 6-800 watts. . 
  My solar monitor s show 2 sets of panels putting out 39-49 amps and the older pair only 12 amps. 
 So my solar is only around 1500 watts instead of 2000.
Ordered a new set of 300 panels to fit the front end of the roof , between the horns.