Water Fill won't stop filling

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Water Fill won't stop filling

July 26, 2024, 02:18:32 pm

Hey everyone. It's been a busy summer and I haven't posted on here since we needed all of you wonderful people for help with the ECM diagnosis last summer. Which was a great help btw. Everything has been working great there since.

Now, I need some help diagnosing my "Water Fill" button. When we travel I usually just fill up directly to the tank and use the pump. But we've been at a seasonal this summer and we got ourselves an outdoor washing machine because we've got boys who play sports. The problem I am having (or I will admit to saying "I created") is that my water fill now will not stop filling.

Last week I installed a new outdoor faucet since the old one was bent and giving me issues. When I took the panel off the water bay, to access the back of the faucet, I pulled some of the cables, that were wired a little too tight, off. In my putting everything back I created two problems. 1. I have a leftover cable that I don't know where it goes. 2. I shorted something.

1. I've included pictures because this one has stumped me. I thought it was supposed to connect to the See Level monitor but that is not right because I connected it and nothing but flickering happened on both my water pump and water fill buttons.

2. Cables must have touched that fried something because I noticed a black grounding cable that was burnt. I've fixed this cable splice already. But that hasn't done anything. I've never taken notice to this Red Hat II solenoid and wanted to get your thoughts on this. Do you suppose that I shorted that out somehow and that it is now not shutting the valve? Or do know if this little red cable that I don't know where to attach has anything to do with that? The little red cable comes out of one of the two purple cables that power up the water fill.

First photo is the wet bay before I take the left panel out. In one of the photos you can see that I'm holding the red cable. There is a green cable that is also attached to nothing that goes to the See Level in the same photo.

I've also taken photos of the other side where the pump is and the burnt splice that I fixed already.

Re: Water Fill won't stop filling

Reply #1 – July 26, 2024, 09:51:28 pm

7 hours have gone by and it looks like no one, including me have any idea what wire going where.

If shore water keeps filling your water tank I would disconnect the wires at the valve to see it that stops the water running. If it doesn't then the valve is bad. I think even if you supplied too much voltage to the valve it should not keep water filling your tank. If continuing either bad valve or check valve in the water pump.

Re: Water Fill won't stop filling

Reply #2 – July 26, 2024, 10:46:14 pm

On your #2 you say shorted something. If you still have power to the coil this could be the latching relay and it could be holding the valve open. Either remove coil off valve or lift ground wire and see what happens.

Mike

Re: Water Fill won't stop filling

Reply #3 – July 26, 2024, 11:08:53 pm

Not going to me any help with your water fill/overflow issue but reminds me of a bicycle ride around the Yuma foothills around 2011. I was between coaches and always had my eye out for the next one, I knew of most of the Foretravels that Wintered in the area. One day passing by your coach before Jor purchased it I noticed water was running out from underneath and down the driveway, It was a good excuse to rouse the owner! Omar the owner was in there house and had forgot he was filling the water tank or expected this fill switch to work as it should, so not the first time...

Re: Water Fill won't stop filling

Reply #4 – July 26, 2024, 11:12:03 pm

On your coach do you have a second fill switch. On my coach there is one below the sink. If you have
one there try it.

Re: Water Fill won't stop filling

Reply #5 – July 26, 2024, 11:15:00 pm

Black "could be" hot, and white "may be" ground.

Re: Water Fill won't stop filling

Reply #6 – July 27, 2024, 07:28:24 am

Quote from: turbojack – July 26, 2024, 09:51:28 pm

7 hours have gone by and it looks like no one, including me have any idea what wire going where.

If shore water keeps filling your water tank I would disconnect the wires at the valve to see it that stops the water running. If it doesn't then the valve is bad. I think even if you supplied too much voltage to the valve it should not keep water filling your tank. If continuing either bad valve or check valve in the water pump.

Oh this is a good idea. I hadn't thought of checking if the valve in the pump is the issue. I will look into that today.

Re: Water Fill won't stop filling

Reply #7 – July 27, 2024, 07:29:50 am

Quote from: Pamela & Mike – July 26, 2024, 10:46:14 pm

On your #2 you say shorted something. If you still have power to the coil this could be the latching relay and it could be holding the valve open. Either remove coil off valve or lift ground wire and see what happens.

Mike

Thanks Mike. Yes, that short or burn of that cable is connected to the ground but it's also the same ground that is connected to the Red Hat. I'll try the hound wire and test if that makes things wonky

Re: Water Fill won't stop filling

Reply #8 – July 27, 2024, 07:35:03 am

Quote from: Doug W. – July 26, 2024, 11:08:53 pm

Not going to me any help with your water fill/overflow issue but reminds me of a bicycle ride around the Yuma foothills around 2011. I was between coaches and always had my eye out for the next one, I knew of most of the Foretravels that Wintered in the area. One day passing by your coach before Jor purchased it I noticed water was running out from underneath and down the driveway, It was a good excuse to rouse the owner! Omar the owner was in there house and had forgot he was filling the water tank or expected this fill switch to work as it should, so not the first time...

This is funny Doug. I never knew this about our coach. It would explain why the whole basement is rusted out and I need to get that repair done. I've just been making it worse, I know, with all of this.

When we purchased it from Jor he recommended it be a good idea not to use the water fill. So I literally never did use it for like two years. Once I got the hang of always putting a timer on my watch whenever we've used it I worries less about overflowing. But it has never shut off on its own to my knowledge. I don't gather that it was ever supposed to do that.

Re: Water Fill won't stop filling

Reply #9 – July 27, 2024, 07:38:16 am

Quote from: oldguy – July 26, 2024, 11:12:03 pm

On your coach do you have a second fill switch. On my coach there is one below the sink. If you have
one there try it.

I do have one more fill switch. But two switches still work the same. It's just that before the water fill, when not on, didn't fill the tank. Now, when it's on it fills the tank like normal but when it is off and I've got water turned on from the shore spigot it still fills like half or a trickle enough so that in about a couple of hours I can fill the whole tank from zero.

Re: Water Fill won't stop filling

Reply #10 – July 27, 2024, 08:23:38 am

With this new information you may just have trash or calcium build up in the fill valve. If the switches are making the valve open/close then for sure clean the valve and see what happens. Here is a link to a DIY as to what you are getting into.
Water Fill Valve Issues

Mike

Re: Water Fill won't stop filling

Reply #11 – July 27, 2024, 09:05:51 am

I don't think that Asco Redhat valve is original to your coach. When I bought my coach the automatic water fill had been removed and replaced with a manual valve. Determined to restore mine to original I bought the same valve you have because it's a very high quality solenoid valve and installed it. It's supposed to work with a float type overflow switch that threads into a boss in the top of the water tank. When you have the water fill switch on it will maintain your tank level full at all times or simply shut the water off when your tank is full if you're using it that way. You haven't mentioned the overflow switch nor have you stated if the valve is currently energized or not. I can also add that last year i filled my tank from a hose without a filter and I got some debris lodged in the fill valve so the water pump was unable to build pressure because the water would just recirculate from the tank through the pump and back into the tank through the fill valve because it wouldn't seal. It was very easy to disassemble and the piece of debris was surprisingly tiny. Put it back together and all is well. Check if your valve is energized and if not disassemble it and clean the diaphram.

Re: Water Fill won't stop filling

Reply #12 – July 27, 2024, 06:16:16 pm

Quote from: Geodmann – July 27, 2024, 09:05:51 am

I don't think that Asco Redhat valve is original to your coach. When I bought my coach the automatic water fill had been removed and replaced with a manual valve. Determined to restore mine to original I bought the same valve you have because it's a very high quality solenoid valve and installed it. It's supposed to work with a float type overflow switch that threads into a boss in the top of the water tank. When you have the water fill switch on it will maintain your tank level full at all times or simply shut the water off when your tank is full if you're using it that way. You haven't mentioned the overflow switch nor have you stated if the valve is currently energized or not. I can also add that last year i filled my tank from a hose without a filter and I got some debris lodged in the fill valve so the water pump was unable to build pressure because the water would just recirculate from the tank through the pump and back into the tank through the fill valve because it wouldn't seal. It was very easy to disassemble and the piece of debris was surprisingly tiny. Put it back together and all is well. Check if your valve is energized and if not disassemble it and clean the diaphram.

Gosh, having that float type overflow switch would be amazing. I don't have that for sure.

Re: Water Fill won't stop filling

Reply #13 – July 27, 2024, 06:34:29 pm

Quote from: Pamela & Mike – July 27, 2024, 08:23:38 am

With this new information you may just have trash or calcium build up in the fill valve. If the switches are making the valve open/close then for sure clean the valve and see what happens. Here is a link to a DIY as to what you are getting into.
Water Fill Valve Issues

Mike

Okay Mike, here where I'm at so far. I cleaned up some more of those cables. Checked for any loose fittings and I did notice that the red wire that is coming off of the Red Hat to the ground is connected to the black wire that was burnt. So I took that all off and cleaned it up and reconnected both of those wires. Lots of sparks. But I checked everything and it looks like I've got it all put back together correctly. However, just checking the continuity of the line: when the fill button is off I check the red wire (that is connected to the battery from the Red Hat) with my voltmeter on the black ground wire and I get 12 but when I turn the fill button on the continuity turns to OL (open loop). When I have my voltmeter leads on the same wires and press the pump on button I see the 12 and then it jumps up in numbers.

I read your link to the other post you sent above and it looks like I'm having the exact same problems. I will take that valve and open it up and clean it next.

So my question is this: can I do this and still run the pump for water? Or will we be out of water usage while I'm working on it? Do I need to disconnect the power while working on it? (maybe a silly question but I figured I should still ask).

Re: Water Fill won't stop filling

Reply #14 – July 27, 2024, 06:36:13 pm

oh, one more thing @Pamela & Mike, can you find the link to the post Jor shared with you seven years ago on it? You mentioned it above but maybe I missed it.

Re: Water Fill won't stop filling

Reply #15 – July 27, 2024, 07:22:34 pm

I think you need to turn water off and drain the tank before removing valve. On a side note you could replace the valve with just a shut off valve.

Re: Water Fill won't stop filling

Reply #16 – July 28, 2024, 02:16:28 pm

Quote from: turbojack – July 27, 2024, 07:22:34 pm

I think you need to turn water off and drain the tank before removing valve. On a side note you could replace the valve with just a shut off valve.

Okay, good to know. There is not a shut off valve there, unfortunately.

Re: Water Fill won't stop filling

Reply #17 – July 31, 2024, 03:14:55 pm

okay, so I've taken everything apart and cleaned it out. I didn't notice anything in particular that alarmed for things looking clogged. I drained the whole tank, turned off the water at the main spigot, and took out the water pump to inspect it as well. Once I got everything back together again, nothing much changed. I left for an appointment and when I came back the tank was already full and overflowing again. I have the water fill off (and I can tell that it's off because when it is on it fills the tank much quicker).

Also, the water pump labors a lot like it's getting a ton of air in the system. And it won't turn off automatically either. Currently, I'm at work so I unplugged the coach from the shore water completely and told the fam to use the water pump but turn it off manually at every use. This is not practical for sure.

So, I've checked with my voltmeter for continuity: one lead from the meter on the ground and one on the positive for the Red Hat solenoid. The continuity show numbers when these two leads are touching these points. When I have Siobhán turn the water fill button on the numbers turn to OL. When I do the same thing but switch the water pump button on the numbers go up rather than to OL. What does this mean? Or should I be testing them a different way?

Re: Water Fill won't stop filling

Reply #18 – July 31, 2024, 03:18:02 pm

Quote from: turbojack – July 27, 2024, 07:22:34 pm

I think you need to turn water off and drain the tank before removing valve. On a side note you could replace the valve with just a shut off valve.

TurboJack, I don't quite understand your suggestion to just take out that Red Hat Solenoid Valve with a shut off valve? Could you explain that more? I guess it makes me nervous not knowing what the implications of other things not working would look like.

Re: Water Fill won't stop filling

Reply #19 – July 31, 2024, 04:18:21 pm

The Red Hat solenoid valve is just and electric shut off valve so TurboJack was suggested putting a
manual valve in place of it, like a ball valve.

Re: Water Fill won't stop filling

Reply #20 – July 31, 2024, 04:27:31 pm

Quote from: oldguy – July 31, 2024, 04:18:21 pm

The Red Hat solenoid valve is just and electric shut off valve so TurboJack was suggested putting a
manual valve in place of it, like a ball valve.

Okay, so if I put a manual valve there would that mean I would just manually turn the water fill on and off from that valve? The water pump would still work fine and if I plugged my hose in from the shore water it should still pressurize and run water in my coach properly without the pump too, correct?

Re: Water Fill won't stop filling

Reply #21 – July 31, 2024, 04:34:00 pm

Yes I did that temporarily once to fill up the tank on a trip and fixed it when I got home.
All you are doing is changing it from an eclectic valve to a manual valve. The reason for
the electric valve is convenience.

Re: Water Fill won't stop filling

Reply #22 – July 31, 2024, 04:44:15 pm

Quote from: Walkerfam7 – July 31, 2024, 03:14:55 pm

okay, so I've taken everything apart and cleaned it out. I didn't notice anything in particular that alarmed for things looking clogged. I drained the whole tank, turned off the water at the main spigot, and took out the water pump to inspect it as well. Once I got everything back together again, nothing much changed. I left for an appointment and when I came back the tank was already full and overflowing again. I have the water fill off (and I can tell that it's off because when it is on it fills the tank much quicker).

If the valve seating surfaces looked clean and with no scratches, yet you are still getting leak through of the fresh water fill, then suspect the solenoid coil/spring is weak and not keeping the valve fully closed.

Later coaches have an electric valve with a manual shutoff in parallel that could be tightened (not quite a ball valve, but a turn handle). They are simply 12VDC irrigation valves (although you want to make sure to use one that's lead-free and safe for drinking water). The challenge would be finding a 12VDC unit since most irrigation has gone to 24VDC.

Re: Water Fill won't stop filling

Reply #23 – July 31, 2024, 04:53:45 pm

Quote from: Walkerfam7 – July 31, 2024, 03:14:55 pm

Also, the water pump labors a lot like it's getting a ton of air in the system. And it won't turn off automatically either.

So on this one, the pump is behaving as if there's a leak; basically it's not building pressure so it won't shut off. Something to look at (assuming there isn't a leak somewhere) is the incoming fresh water check valve on the city water plumbing. If that check valve has failed, it could cause the pump to try and push water out the fresh water hose. A test for this is to disconnect the fresh water hose from the site spigot and run the water pump - see if water comes out the hose.

Re: Water Fill won't stop filling

Reply #24 – July 31, 2024, 05:04:16 pm

For the water tank to be filling, either the electric valve is bypassing the water or you could have a bad check valve in the water pump and water is going through the pump to fill water tank.

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