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Topic: Emissions Timeline (Read 362 times) previous topic - next topic

Emissions Timeline

I'm new to the Forum and not yet a Foretravel owner. Our budget will likely keep us in the 2009 or earlier years. I've been reading lots about de-lamination problems but not much about emission problems. I've got a piece of construction equipment with a DPF filter that has given me all sorts of headaches and I'm reluctant to purchase anything else with a DPF. I'm curious what year Foretravel's with the Cummins ISM first had the EGR Valve, next the DPF, and when DEF additive was introduced. Was there ever a coach with slides that had neither emission equipment or an engine ECM.
The idea of a refurbished pre-computer, pre-emissions coach really appeals to me.
Thanks in advance for the info.

 

Re: Emmissions Timeline

Reply #1 –
Something to watch particularly in the late 2000's/early 2010's is that Foretravel did a last-time-buy (or had leftovers) of the 2007-2010 pre-DEF EPA Cummins engines, so you can see one of those red eggshell ISX's at least into 2012, maybe even 2013.

Given there was some carryover from year of engine manufacture to year of coach manufacture, in terms of ISM with EGR, you're likely going to need the exact ESN (engine serial number) and check with Cummins.  DPF should be pretty easy to ascertain - just look to see what the "muffler" looks like.

Quote
Was there ever a coach with slides that had neither emission equipment or an engine ECM.

No.  ECM (vs. mechanical M11) predates the introduction of slides by a couple of years.
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: Emmissions Timeline

Reply #2 –
Cummins with the mechanical Bosch P pump are very reliable as the pump can outlast several engines. The CUPS (Cummins) electronic engines are much more troublesome and expensive if the ECU or any of the related hardware fails. Some Cummins owners have converted their electronic engines to the Bosch mechanical injection. Quite a bit of my background was importing and fitting turbos to Mercedes diesels like the 300D/240D We never had a Bosch mechanical pump fail for any reason.

U300s with the 6V92TA DDEC II ECUs have low failure rates. This is the Detroit found in Foretravels. The mechanical version of this engine is really bulletproof but had too high emissions back in the late 1980s.  I had a mechanical Detroit 8V-71 in a GM bus before the Foretravel and nothing ever went wrong with the coach or engine in all the years I owned it other than two flat tires.

Mechanical V8 CATs with the larger head studs are a very reliable engine.

The most important consideration in purchasing any Foretravel is making sure it is corrosion/rust free. To me, this eliminates the northern coaches or any that have been driven much on treated roads in the winter. Think California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas for the least problems.

Pierce
Pierce and Gaylie Stewart
'93 U300/36 WTBI
Detroit 6V-92TA Jake
1140 watts on the roof
SBFD (ret)

Re: Emissions Timeline

Reply #3 –
If you want a non computer, non EGR engine the Cummins C8.3 available in some 98 and older U270s and U295s are easy to find, but none will have slides. Our 98 has a '97 12 valve engine with the Bosch injector with 325hp and 915 torque. We actually prefer the non slide coach layout and simplicity. The price point is very favorable leaving you with a great repair and upgrade budget.

Some have even been painted nicely with upgraded headlights. You might also find upgraded solar and lithium batteries.
1998 36 foot U270 Build No. 5328 WTFE, 900 watts solar, Victron controller, B2B, bat monitor, 600 AMPH lithium with 2018 Chevy Colorado toad, SKP #110239, Motorcade #17781, 2021 Escape 17B for when Coach is broken down and campsites are too small, retired and full-timer since Dec. 2020. Part of RV family since 1963.

Re: Emissions Timeline

Reply #4 –
Welcome to the forum and your interest in Foretravel. I started looking for a new RV about 2-3 years ago began looking for a fairly new Diesel pusher. This was to be my 4th motor home. My last RV was a 2004 Tropi-Cal T396 that basically had to junk due to corrosion and fatigue in the sidewall structures. Northeast weather, coastal environment, winter usage, and road conditions did it in just short of 100K miles. This made me very sensitive to build. Looking at the newer value priced RV's I just couldn't bring myself to spend $300K to watch it fall apart.

I then started looking at higher end stuff and gave thought that if still structurally sound after 15 years and some mileage I should stand a good chance to get some good service. I can handle most anything mechanical or electrical unless too big and then I know how to get help. I started focusing on Foretravel, Country Coach, American Eagles, etc. At some points water Prevost but other half dais no way. She really wanted something smaller. 

So anyway, Last March I picked a 2008 Nimbus. I enjoy so many features of this coach including the ISM 500 and 4000 series transmission. Most impressive is the disk brake system.  The ISM for Foretravel never had DPF. EGR and Variable Gate Turbo are the tools for NOx reduction. To replace it the ISL was upped to 450 HP and 500/600 HP went to the ISX. The ISL is usually paired with the 3000 series trans and the ISM/ISX got the 4000. Foretravel also used the Allison transmissions with the "retarder" instead of an engine or exhaust brake. As for avoiding emissions equipment at some point we may not have a choice and may even be required to upgrade the older stuff.

This is the coach I now have.

2008 Foretravel Nimbus 42′ | Premier RV

I think the U series coaches are classiest looking. The Nimbus series is when they grew up a bit and it seem matured 2007 or 2008. The Nimbus is the entry level with the Phenix being the upgrade and then there is the IH-45.
Depending on year Phenix gets independent front suspension, (some later Nimbus may also have IFS). As for the earlier coaches, anything with even the ISM 450 and 4000 transmission is an awesome choice, especially for the smaller-lighter units that have it. Nothing compares. Comparing ISL 450 to ISM 450, you can't. The ISL is moderate torque and spin it up. The ISM is low end grunt with a transmission and rear axle that pushes in a way that makes one smile. Even in the heavier coaches like mine, the ISM 500 satisfies with respectable fuel economy.  Bring it home from Oregon, hills traffic, snow, wind, etc., I did 7 mpg. On other trips I have done as bad as 5.4 and once did 8.2.

Probably biggest disappointment for me is lack of family seat belts and beds.  Was tough to find an acceptable floor plan. On mine no front shoulder belts, no rear seat belts, and only 1 couch bed. I have grandkids I want to take camping. Other concern is the complexity of the slide out rooms.

Happy shopping. Go for lots of test drives. Consider going to one of the dealers with a lot of inventory to do some shopping and learning.  Take the time and do the travel. It will be fun.


Dennis Haynes
Bohemia NY
2008 Nimbus 342 SE Carlyle
Build #6475
Motorcade #19148

Re: Emissions Timeline

Reply #5 –
Great info and advice; thanks everyone. By coincidence I had a diesel mechanic out yesterday to work on my Case skid steer (again) and asked about his experience with Cummins engines. He said he rarely experienced a problem with either Cummins or Cat engine ECM's, but did occasionally with EGR Valves. He said the EGR's were easy to change and very easy to delete altogether. His advice on DPF's and DEF engines was to stay away if possible.