Starting looking at the Phenix, but I have some questions

February 11, 2025, 06:31:54 pm

Trying to move up from my 2007 Monaco Dynasty 43' and it's Cummins ISL. I am full time now and pull an enclosed car trailer with a car in it. While this combination is functional climbing a hill @30mph, and I do love the coach from an era at Monaco when there were made by craftsman, I'd like more. This is when I stumbled on the Foretravel Phenix.
Nice.
But I walk into a wall, all have only the cummins ISX for their big block.
PLEASE DON"T MAKE THIS A DISCUSSION OF WHETHER THIS IS A TALE
So I started asking whether a rig had addressed the #6 Valve issue and EGR system been addressed. Seems none I found has (I know a lot on Monaco Signature owners spent the $$ for the new designed head BEFORE stuck somewhere with engine damage and a $30,000 bill). I got answers like:
- Never had a problem
- Had the rig check before selling
- It only has 36k miles on the engine
Of course it doesn't seem to matter what the miles were, just a roll of the dice. SO are sellers dumping them before the repair bill comes?
So as a full timer, I would love to be comfortable know I got the best solution Cummins could come up with. I can find some posts here about the issue/failure/repairs but wouldn't everyone expect to worry about the failure?

Second, how is it that Motorhomes of Texas seems to have so many listed? Anyone with history with them I would love to hear. I did get a hold of one of the reps and asked if they have any positive info on the issue for ANY of the Phenix's they have. He is going to check into it. They must know this is an issue dealing in these big rigs where all have this engine if it is Cummins. I wouldn't pay Retail price for one that had no history

Discuss

Re: Starting looking at the Phenix, but I have some questions

Reply #1 – February 11, 2025, 06:56:21 pm

Quote from: e4services – February 11, 2025, 06:31:54 pm

So I started asking whether a rig had addressed the #6 Valve issue and EGR system been addressed. Seems none I found has (I know a lot on Monaco Signature owners spent the $$ for the new designed head BEFORE stuck somewhere with engine damage and a $30,000 bill).

Country Coach Magnas and a couple of Foretravels (both Phenix and Nimbus) have also been through this new head/valve post-failure. The key is to finding one that has record of the repair with the redesigned parts.

Early IH45 will also have this engine.

Quote

Second, how is it that Motorhomes of Texas seems to have so many listed? Anyone with history with them I would love to hear.

MOT is owned by a former Foretravel salesman, David Robertson, who started the company in late 2003 when Foretravel themselves decided not to sell used coaches (a subject they have flip-flopped on multiple times.) For a number of years, MOT has been the primary dealership that used Foretravels are sold through. Since they are almost across the street from Foretravel and many long-time owners know them, that's where a lot of Foretravels are consigned these days. They are a consignment dealer, so their contract is with the seller - some sellers are reasonable individuals; others might be challenging when it comes to sharing information. MOT's caught in the middle on that one.

Re: Starting looking at the Phenix, but I have some questions

Reply #2 – February 12, 2025, 09:26:25 am

looking at coaches I also see this engine as a wall unless the updates have been done. As I understand it, the update also derates the engine back down to 600 HP. While discontinued around 2010 many coaches including Newell used it as late as 2012. Coaches that I have seen that have been updated are documented and often the update is presented as a selling point. I would suggest the coaches at MOT have not been updated. My other concern for this engine is that it is a twin cam design. The 2nd cam is there to mechanically operate the injectors. If I were to buy one of these, I would consider the upgrade cost as part of the purchase, negotiate accordingly. Get the engine serial number and then get a quote from Cummins for the update.
Some of those coaches at MOT have been for sale for a very long time. Some were there when I was shopping last year.
Consider one of the Nimbus with the 500 HP ISM. Some of them will have independent front suspension. That engine-transmission combo is sweet, and it is still non-DEF-SCR. Only emissions equipment is the EGR and Variable Gate turbo. Picking it up in Oregon and driving to NY, it really did not struggle to get up any hills and was able to keep up with traffic.

Here is later 42' Nimbus with the ISM 500, 12.5K genny with reasonable miles.
2011 Foretravel Nimbus 4240 | Motorhomes of Texas

Re: Starting looking at the Phenix, but I have some questions

Reply #3 – February 12, 2025, 06:55:17 pm

Thanks for your input, I kinda got the idea that MOT was consigning the units. I have ask them to contact all the sellers for more info, explaining it is a BIG deal

Re: Starting looking at the Phenix, but I have some questions

Reply #4 – February 12, 2025, 06:59:37 pm

Quote from: Dennis H – February 12, 2025, 09:26:25 am

Consider one of the Nimbus with the 500 HP ISM.

I agree with this recommendation. Love the ISM.

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Here is later 42' Nimbus with the ISM 500, 12.5K genny with reasonable miles.
2011 Foretravel Nimbus 4240 | Motorhomes of Texas

I would verify this is an ISM and not an ISX (check the engine plate.) I'm thinking the ISM ceased to be produced when the EPA 2007 engines came out.

Foretravel built at least one 2011/12 Nimbus with an ISX500 that did have the dropped valve failure. It was a long story and probably not at the best shop for the situation, but the coach was sidelined for well over 18 months

Re: Starting looking at the Phenix, but I have some questions

Reply #5 – February 12, 2025, 08:00:36 pm

Quote from: Michelle – February 12, 2025, 06:59:37 pm

I agree with this recommendation. Love the ISM.

I would verify this is an ISM and not an ISX (check the engine plate.) I'm thinking the ISM ceased to be produced when the EPA 2007 engines came out.

Foretravel built at least one 2011/12 Nimbus with an ISX500 that did have the dropped valve failure. It was a long story and probably not at the best shop for the situation, but the coach was sidelined for well over 18 months

I just took another look at the pictures. That coach is definitely ISM. In addition to the different engine the Radiator opening is huge for the ISX series. That series also adds about another 1,000 pounds. Only Phenix and IH45 got the big one! I understand that for 2026 the mid bore 10.8 liter series is coming back.

Re: Starting looking at the Phenix, but I have some questions

Reply #6 – February 12, 2025, 09:07:51 pm

Quote from: Dennis H – February 12, 2025, 08:00:36 pm

I just took another look at the pictures. That coach is definitely ISM.

Then it is likely one of the last built with one, with a leftover engine. The coach I mentioned is a 2012 Nimbus which definitely had an ISX500 (and a dropped valve.)

Why buy an used Foretravel over Monaco, need help in this discussion.

Re: Starting looking at the Phenix, but I have some questions

Reply #7 – February 12, 2025, 09:18:13 pm

Quote from: Michelle – February 12, 2025, 09:07:51 pm

Then it is likely one of the last built with one, with a leftover engine. The coach I mentioned is a 2012 Nimbus which definitely had an ISX500 (and a dropped valve.)

Why buy an used Foretravel over Monaco, need help in this discussion.

Yep. Why I pointed it out as an option though. Many of the later 40 and 42 Nimbus get the ISL which the OP was looking to upgrade from.

Re: Starting looking at the Phenix, but I have some questions

Reply #8 – February 12, 2025, 10:20:13 pm

Just curious, Didn't Brad Metzger own a Phenix?
What engine did he have?
What ever became of his coach, anybody know?

Re: Starting looking at the Phenix, but I have some questions

Reply #9 – February 12, 2025, 10:26:52 pm

Quote from: Lon and Cheryl – February 12, 2025, 10:20:13 pm

Just curious, Didn't Brad Metzger own a Phenix?

He did. 2010 45' was his last coach (it was originally built for Greg Amys.) Prior to that he had a 2006 Phenix.

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What engine did he have?

ISX. He had the PTO failure on the cooling fans. Which reminds me, the EPA 2007 engine'd coaches do have a dry PTO that needs to be manually greased (no wet kit available due to clearance issues.)

Greasable PTO

Defect notification - Who has responsibility to notify and repair?

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What ever became of his coach, anybody know?

Have never seen it come up for sale.

Re: Starting looking at the Phenix, but I have some questions

Reply #10 – February 13, 2025, 08:43:54 am

Brad was aware of the potential issue but "never had a problem with it and don't worry about it." He was not one to let anything get in the way of his great love of traveling and riding his Can Am. When something broke he had it fixed. He had bought several new Foretravels and told me the best of the bunch and his favorite of all was a a 320 38 tag. Not sure if Phyllis would have agreed with that, the Phenix was sweet.

Re: Starting looking at the Phenix, but I have some questions

Reply #11 – February 14, 2025, 07:54:05 pm

I fondly remember reading his posts.
I was always impressed by the way he maintained his coach and always thought his coach would defiantly be on a short list of coaches to buy if offered for sale.
I miss him.

Re: Starting looking at the Phenix, but I have some questions

Reply #12 – February 14, 2025, 08:23:06 pm

Quote from: Lon and Cheryl – February 14, 2025, 07:54:05 pm

I miss him.

Me, too.

I have his last voicemail about a forum concern (he loved this forum family) saved on my phone.

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