House battery performance question

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House battery performance question

May 13, 2010, 03:12:35 pm

Our house batteries are original (2002 or 2003) and with a full charge they dropped to 11.5 volts after about one hour of watching tv with dvr, Bose. and no other loads except parasitic. I'm pretty convinced they need to be replaced? Given that kind of load shouldn't three 8d's last a day or more?
It was a good test of the generator auto start though. After a few minutes at 11.5 volts the generator started right up.
The Prosine 2.5 seems to be working properly; charging somewhere between 13.75 and 14.25 volts according to the standard display.
Someone in the last month or two mentioned purchasing these batteries online. I would like some more information/specifics on this. We will be in Oregon in another couple weeks and would like to replace them there.

Thanks,

Re: House battery performance question

Reply #1 – May 13, 2010, 03:19:47 pm

Michelle, those batteries are real heavy. Then you have the disposal of the
old batteries issue. I am certain someone else will chime in on this topic.
Let me just say that the batteries are critical if you plan to boon dock.
Not so if you're going to be driving and plugging in to shore power.

Re: House battery performance question

Reply #2 – May 13, 2010, 05:16:50 pm

Dick,

In our '03 U320 we also have 3 8D's, each of which weighs around 150+ pounds. I want to say each is around 225 A-H, so they should be lasting longer than a few hours.

We had to have ours original ones replaced a couple of years ago, due to unfortunate power issues at the place we'd been storing the coach (long story). Ours weren't holding a charge like they should have after many instances of another coach tripping the shared breaker. When Steve opened up the compartment to check the house batteries, one was hissing. A sure sign of trouble.

While we try to do any maintenance and repair that we can ourselves, those batteries are not one we wanted to tackle, for the same reasons Peter mentioned - weight and disposal, PLUS we opted to go with AGM when we replaced them. It turns out the new batteries were ever so slightly larger than the originals, and the battery tray had to be modified. All of this was done by the battery installer, and IIRC their pricing really wasn't that much more than buying the batteries ourselves, anyway.

Michelle

Re: House battery performance question

Reply #3 – May 13, 2010, 05:45:39 pm

If you are dealing with size 8d batteries I strong suggest you have someone do the installation. Our 8d batteries each weigh 161 pound -- EACH.

The location of house batteries seems to vary in location year by year. Ours are arranged so that two are side by side and the third one is on a tray over the other two. IMHO Foretravel really screwed up on this design. It is nearly impossible for one person to remove that battery. And that is why we chose a battery dealer. We used to live near an Interstate Battery dealer who had a big warehouse in back of his store and yet he did not have our size in stock and had to special order them. But that was O.K because we got really fresh battereis. He also ordered side mount terminals which allowed them to do a really neat install on the batteries.
Here is aphoto.

Re: House battery performance question

Reply #4 – May 13, 2010, 06:25:54 pm

Dick. You are about due. I replaced the house (and the chassis) batteries on my 2003 this past fall. My coach was built in November 02.

Re: House battery performance question

Reply #5 – May 13, 2010, 06:28:57 pm

I agree, there is no way I could manage batteries this heavy. George I think the location of our batteries must be similar to yours. In the back of the 2nd bay on the passenger side, face aft and remove a panel, and one above two. I think it must be a 2 man job in a space big enough for only one.
Did you both install AGM's instead of Gel's? Are the originals Gel? Why AGM's?

Thanks.

Re: House battery performance question

Reply #6 – May 13, 2010, 07:13:25 pm

Quote from: Dick S – May 13, 2010, 06:28:57 pm

Did you both install AGM's instead of Gel's? Are the originals Gel? Why AGM's?

Our original house batteries were gels and we went to AGM's when we got the new ones. We went back and forth but the AGMs were slightly less expensive and offered slightly higher battery capacity. The AGMs are also supposed to much more robust in terms of vibration and temperature extremes.

Michelle

Re: House battery performance question

Reply #7 – May 14, 2010, 11:09:20 am

Before you replace the batteries, try cleaning all of the terminals and connections and check for tight connection. You should do that when you replace the batteries anyway. Maybe the connections are corroded and you might be only on one battery with the others having bad connections. (they might not be recharging).
Get a multimeter and check the batteries individually.

Re: House battery performance question

Reply #8 – May 15, 2010, 05:04:01 pm

I went with AGM batteries after reading a lot of pros and cons about different types of batteries. They seemed to be a good choice and after reading a few of the answers here, I am glad I went with AGMs.

FWIW -- the Interstate Battery dealer we went to actually used one of their fork lift trucks to help get the new batteries into place. We have a James Stallings paint job and they did not even disturb the dust on the paint.

Re: House battery performance question

Reply #9 – May 15, 2010, 06:51:22 pm

Steve, We have the same battery configuration as you in that hidden compartment.
When you replaced yours with AGM's, did the 3 batterys fit in the rack without any modification as George had to do?

I dry camp alot & have been fighting an issue for some time.
The issue is, when it is 100 plus outside as it has been the last few summers,
it takes 10 - 12 hours to charge my batteries that may only be at 50 - 60 %.
I tried everything I could think of to find out the cause.
Finally I disconnected the Battery Temp sensor & the charge rate zoomed up to what I thought it should have been.
Now it charges in a few hours.
I thought maybe the temp sensor was bad, but after some evaluation I found the battery compartment which does not get much air flow was getting up to 90 - 100 degrees.
So the battery charger was doing what it is supposed to do and slowing the charge rate down to compensate for the batteries being so hot.
I have been experimenting with ways to get air flow in that compartment , including an inline blower attached to the vent coming out of that compartment but nothing seems to work.

So after talking to lifeline at the FMCA, they said the AGM batteries can take those temperatures much better and should alleviate my problem. Since they are located not to far from me I was going to switch to them if I dont have to modify the battery rack.

Re: House battery performance question

Reply #10 – May 15, 2010, 10:52:43 pm

Quote from: Barry Beam – May 15, 2010, 06:51:22 pm

Steve, We have the same battery configuration as you in that hidden compartment.
When you replaced yours with AGM's, did the 3 batterys fit in the rack without any modification as George had to do?

Barry - Steve's arguing with the e-mail posting project at the moment (after wrestling the washer/dryer, some cracked plumbing, and a few other fun things today) and asked me to answer.

We did need to have our battery rack modified when we swapped to AGMs. We actually were very fortunate - the RV service place that did our battery replacement (Danny's RV here in Denton, TX) did so on their time and their dime after discovering that the batteries were slightly larger than the original gel cells.

Michelle

Re: House battery performance question

Reply #11 – May 15, 2010, 11:48:24 pm

Do you know how much modification was needed?
Are the AGM's much longer or wider or both?
Did they have to remove the rack & rebuild it?
As usual ,it is not going to be as easy as just a swap out.

Unfortunately I don't think Lifeline will do any modifications to the rack.
They will swap the batteries for me but will not connect them.

Re: House battery performance question

Reply #12 – May 16, 2010, 01:33:51 am

Barry,

As far as I know, the tray was not modified in anyway to get the new AGM batteries in place. But I have a 2000 U320 and your tray might be sized differently. If you want, I will be glad to measure the Interstate batteries we have. Just let me know.

Coincidentally, I did not know about the AGMs doing a better job of handling high ambinent temperatures. I keep learning new stuff here.

Re: House battery performance question

Reply #13 – May 16, 2010, 01:49:57 am

The measurements would help.

Here is some info on the Battery temperature charging compensation.

http://beamalarm.com/Documents/temperature_compensated_battery_charging.html

Re: House battery performance question

Reply #14 – May 16, 2010, 10:20:00 am

Barry, That is an interesting article on temperature compensated charging; particularly the note about not exposing any battery to temperatures above 88 deg. F for any length of time. And you found your batteries at 90 to 100...

MK Battery (www.mkbattery.com , 800 372-9253) makes both Gel & AGM 8D batteries and both measure 20.75"x11"x10". They have a Technical Manual that covers both types of batteries (attached).

Do you know if the factory installed MK Batteries originally?

Re: House battery performance question

Reply #15 – May 16, 2010, 10:27:25 am

Wow!! That is a mouthful!!

Re: House battery performance question

Reply #16 – May 16, 2010, 10:28:40 am

Or is that a formula that I missed in my electrical troubnleshooting class?

Re: House battery performance question

Reply #17 – May 16, 2010, 09:01:53 pm

Dick, in 2005 I replaced the OEM gel coach batteries (2) with Deka and am very satisfied. And now that I know MK makes the same size in AGM's, in another 4 years I'll be switching to AGM technology. (I believe that Deka makes the batteries for MK?)

Re: House battery performance question

Reply #18 – May 16, 2010, 09:31:26 pm

Barry:

19 and 3/8 inches long
8 and 7/8 inches high
10 and 1/2 inches wide

Re: House battery performance question

Reply #19 – May 16, 2010, 09:33:03 pm

Thanks George

Re: House battery performance question

Reply #20 – May 17, 2010, 08:17:13 pm

Peter, were your original gel coach batteries from MK? I don't know about
mine in our '03 U320. I am hoping they are MK, because then I know I could
drop in new gels or agms from MK without having to modify the battery
holders. Dick

Re: House battery performance question

Reply #21 – May 17, 2010, 08:43:28 pm

The 2003 coaches had MK. I have them in mine also.

Re: House battery performance question

Reply #22 – May 17, 2010, 08:51:24 pm

I bought my 1997 coach with MK gels in 2003 with a BO code (Feb 2000) then replaced in 2005 with Deka same specifications as the MK's. The MK's were 5 years old but seemed to have been mistreated. The Deka's are now 5 years old and going strong. Someone (I can't remember) had told me that MK & Deka's are manufacured by the same outfit. In fact Deka also has the AGM technology as well, coincidentally.
http://www.eastpenn-deka.com/
http://www.eastpenn-deka.com/assets/base/0215.pdf

Re: House battery performance question

Reply #23 – May 18, 2010, 02:36:43 pm

Peter, you are right. East Penn Manufacturing labels their batteries with their "house" label Deka and with MK. I talked to East Penn this morning.
I also called the Deka East Penn distribution center in Portland, OR (we are heading there). They will sell retail, but do not do installations. Their prices:
8A8D(M) List $703 Sell for $472 ('M' is a marine battery with both standard auto posts & stud w/ nut. Otherwise you get the standard auto post. Prices are the same either way)
8G8D List $798 Sell for $534

If you all have found better pricing, I would like to know what you found.

Re: House battery performance question

Reply #24 – May 18, 2010, 03:02:22 pm

I haven't been shopping for these lately. But, I can share what I paid for them in 2005. $435 ea. before taxes for the 8D's Gel.

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