Generator Starting Problem

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Generator Starting Problem

June 09, 2010, 10:18:14 pm

I need a little help, My 10 kv Generator just started to act up. It does not want to start from the house batteries. I have checked their voltage and both read 12.8 volts at rest. When I attempt to start the Gen set it clicks and makes a sound like a loose wire short. When I engage the boost switch it starts as normal. Can someone tell me the location of a solenoid or relay that may be going bad that controls the house battery starting system side ? All battery terminals are clean and have good contact. THANKS

Re: Generator Starting Problem

Reply #1 – June 09, 2010, 11:05:57 pm

Quote from: Gerry – June 09, 2010, 10:18:14 pm

My 10 kv Generator just started to act up. It does not want to start from the house batteries. I have checked their voltage and both read 12.8 volts at rest. When I attempt to start the Gen set it clicks and makes a sound like a loose wire short. When I engage the boost switch it starts as normal. Can someone tell me the location of a solenoid or relay that may be going bad that controls the house battery starting system side ? All battery terminals are clean and have good contact. THANKS

It seems that if you put the Boost switch on, the wiring is the same from there to the generator.
If it starts with the boost on, using the engine batteries, I would guess the house batteries could be the culprit.
Have you load tested the batteries?

Re: Generator Starting Problem

Reply #2 – June 10, 2010, 10:08:48 am

I only voltage checked the house batteries. I will load test today. THANKS for the reply.

Re: Generator Starting Problem

Reply #3 – June 10, 2010, 12:08:15 pm

When I used to store my old unit at a storage yard with no power. We had a huge snow and I could not get to the motorhome for 5 weeks... Anyway I used the house and start batteries to start the genset and then let the charger charge both sets of batteries. I would think that barry is correct too but you can look on the genset when you try to start it and there are warning lights there too that may tell you further information...

Re: Generator Starting Problem

Reply #4 – July 09, 2010, 10:02:51 am

Gerry - did you ever resolve this? I haven't had to use the boost, but it sounds like it's turning over awfully weak before it fires. I haven't checked anything out, just shows that the batteries are at 13 volts according to the panel.

Re: Generator Starting Problem

Reply #5 – July 09, 2010, 01:38:31 pm

I learned this from James Triana at the factory. He encourages people to use the boost when starting the engine. He said that without the boost we are putting an unnecessary strain on the starting motor. He also said that the harder the starting motor works the shorter its life will be. We always use the boost and there is a noticeable increase in the speed at which the 450 ponies in the steel corral get spun around.

Does old-nodaker have a first name? I'd like to be able to address you by your real name.

Quote

On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 8:02 AM, old_nodaker <foreforums@foreforums.comwrote:

Gerry - did you ever resolve this? I haven't had to use the boost, but it sounds like it's turning over awfully weak before it fires. I haven't checked anything out, just shows that the batteries are at 13 volts according to the panel. 1996 U270

George & Sandy & Trixie

Lost in America in a 40' Foretravel aka "Moose"

Follow our adventures at http://sangeo-travels.blogspot.com/

Re: Generator Starting Problem

Reply #6 – July 09, 2010, 07:32:42 pm

George -
Please explain just how you do the boost ? when starting the coach - I think I saw Bob in FOT shop do this but did not THINK to ask - He so kindly showed me many things as did several of the other guys, but they have been so busy and there should be a session for new owners on WHAT TO DO!!! besides reading the manual - but they are very busy and it all does come in time - I just want Instant!!!

My brain is sore from all I've been TRYING to learn

-

Off subject - I never asked how to open/close the front generator door and what to check on it on a regular basis - I also have forgotten how to do the reset should the generator fault - I've that huge Kubota

We're ESCAPING Camp FOT this weekend - Whoo-hoo!!!!

Re: Generator Starting Problem

Reply #7 – July 09, 2010, 07:49:47 pm

Virginia, to the left of the driver's seat are several rows of switches, including one that says Boost.

Here is my sequence: 1. Engage the Boost switch. It is a rocker switch and will stay in position. 2. Turn ignition key to on, but do not start right away. 3. Listen to the relays clicking until all is quiet. 4. Turn key to engage starting motor. 5. Turn off Boost switch.

Hope this helps.

On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 5:32 PM, Virginia, Jim And Cricket <

Quote

jensjems@gmail.com wrote:

George -

Please explain just how you do the boost ? when starting the coach - I think I saw Bob in FOT shop do this but did not THINK to ask - He so kindly showed me many things as did several of the other guys, but they have been so busy and there should be a session for new owners on WHAT TO DO!!! besides reading the manual - but they are very busy and it all does come in time - I just want Instant!!!

My brain is sore from all I've been TRYING to learn -

Off subject - I never asked how to open/close the front generator door and what to check on it on a regular basis - I also have forgotten how to do the reset should the generator fault - I've that huge Kubota

We're ESCAPING Camp FOT this weekend - Whoo-hoo!!!!

Virginia, Jim and Ms Cricket

Lady Starr Rider: '99 U320 40'

Midnight Roadie: '07 Black Toyota Matrix

--

George & Sandy & Trixie

Lost in America in a 40' Foretravel aka "Moose"

Follow our adventures at http://sangeo-travels.blogspot.com/

Re: Generator Starting Problem

Reply #8 – July 09, 2010, 07:55:31 pm

To open the generator compartment on the Unicoaches a pull handle can be found in the drivers side forward compartment (ahead of the front tire).

Check the oil and coolant levels on the Kubota once a week or 500 miles or so, inspect for leaks. (Again, learn more about the maintenance details in the generator manuals)

If the genset is running and you have no power, it usually means you need to reset the breaker found at the control box in the generator itself.

Trust me, once you leave camp FOT you'll have a thousand questions you never thought to ask...that's why we are here.

Re: Generator Starting Problem

Reply #9 – July 09, 2010, 08:03:03 pm

Hi "Old",

Yes & NO, $:-\$ The house batteries checked OK and the system started working normally after a 1200 mile trip north to Ohio. I have been on shore power for a month and have not had to use, nor have I checked the gen-set recently.

I'll do that tomorrow and report back to the group. Thanks for reminding me I had a problem.... p.s. when you check your house batteries voltage, the only way to get a true reading of voltage is to disconnect the ground wire from each battery to isolate them from the charging system and from any "Solar" panel that may be maintaining a charge to them, and check the voltage at the battery....

Re: Generator Starting Problem

Reply #10 – July 09, 2010, 09:15:55 pm

OK Peter - I found the "pull handle" front door POPS right open

NOW there is a gray box in the front to ones left and it has a "Reset" switch on it - Is that what your speaking of? If so please give more info - I've not a clue on that box

What I was referring to was when the generator "Faulted Out" on us and was not running - there was a red light on the dash - We were playing with the coach after shop hours - this was also when we discovered the levelers were not acting right - To our blessing Bob, for some reason just decided to cut through the parking lot - we did not care he kindly stopped and asked if we were all right - poor guy, but he saved us/ME from hours of perplexing struggles as there were not but a few other FTer's in the lot - George and Sandy had left!!!!!

OK - he went to the side door for the generator and if I can remember it right he switched the on to off then back to on and the run to stop then back to run - this made a light on the side of this gray box change: there is a panel of lights on the side of this box - NOW did I get it right or is it back to 3rd Grade again

Also, just now when I went to find the Pull Handle I quickly realized I may not have enough strength to pull the generator out on it's tray - hope I never have to - BUT I did find a big puddle of fresh oil under the generator in that pan -

are we not leaving camp FOT

WHAT is this puddle of oil - none on ground just in pan under the generator tray

George - I wrote down your instructions for using the Booster and it is by the dash -

I'm going to have all these notes hanging around the dash for some time

Quote from: Peter B. Martin – July 09, 2010, 07:55:31 pm

To open the generator compartment on the Unicoaches a pull handle can be found in the drivers side forward compartment (ahead of the front tire).

Check the oil and coolant levels on the Kubota once a week or 500 miles or so, inspect for leaks. (Again, learn more about the maintenance details in the generator manuals)

If the genset is running and you have no power, it usually means you need to reset the breaker found at the control box in the generator itself.

Trust me, once you leave camp FOT you'll have a thousand questions you never thought to ask...that's why we are here.

Re: Generator Starting Problem

Reply #11 – July 09, 2010, 10:52:21 pm

Yes George, old_nodaker has a first name - but he doesn't use it

It's probably to late to advise folks on this form, but DO NOT name your kids the same name as the dad. It get real confusing and has created the psycho you see before you today. In the mean time, I go by my middle name of Gayland, which you may feel free to use, thank you very much!

Now about the advice to use the boost to start - first of all, I only have a measly 300 ponies to turn over, does that still apply? And another thing, What is actually happening when, for instance, You've been using the house batteries all night and they're real low. Aren't you just going to dump a bunch of power from the auto battery into the house batteries?

And to Virginia - what is FOT? and why are you so anxious to get away from it? I would suspect if you have a puddle of oil, you'd better plan on staying another day. Maybe they like you so well they do "stuff" so you'll stay longer

Re: Generator Starting Problem

Reply #12 – July 09, 2010, 11:09:52 pm

FOT = Foretravel of Texas.

Re: Generator Starting Problem

Reply #13 – July 09, 2010, 11:38:31 pm

So what is that, a boot camp for retiree's???

Re: Generator Starting Problem

Reply #14 – July 10, 2010, 12:33:08 am

"Now about the advice to use the boost to start - first of all, I only have a measly 300 ponies to turn over, does that still apply? And another thing, What is actually happening when, for instance, You've been using the house batteries all night and they're real low. Aren't you just going to dump a bunch of power from the auto battery into the house batteries?"

Gayland: What I do in this situation is fire up the generator and let it run for a few minutes and then flip the boost switch and start the engine

(generator still running). I get a real nice spin and if the batteries are really low I'll let the generator run for a while as we run down the road.

Paul 36' 2000 U320

Re: Generator Starting Problem

Reply #15 – July 10, 2010, 06:12:58 am

Virginia,

You are exactly right in the method you use to clear the control box fault.

Re: Generator Starting Problem

Reply #16 – July 10, 2010, 08:02:45 am

The generator sits on a sliding tray that is secured to its position by two bolts at the front of the tray on the corners. These have to be removed from the bottom before you can attempt to slide the gen out.

Also, I would suggest that when its dark outside you carefully look at the generator fault light on the dash with the generator shut off then with it on. If there is any slight glow you may be running into a bad circuit card in that grey box with the lights & breakers, etc. on the genset. Have them check all the connections. This circuit card also has a dip switch which controls the settings for gen auto start voltage and shut-off voltage.

Re: Generator Starting Problem

Reply #17 – July 10, 2010, 10:15:30 am

Gayland,

You are good addition to the ForeForum. I like your sense of humor and your admonition about naming children. But that advice might be a few decades too late for most of us here. Others have answered well your questions about the Boost switch. I look forward to your future topics. Keep 'em coming.

Re: Generator Starting Problem

Reply #18 – July 10, 2010, 10:17:21 am

YEA - I got one right - Reseting the generator, Thank You Amos

PETER - Doubt I will be tackling undoing the bolts to slide out the generator, but knowing how to do it is a good thing. After the generator faulted out on us we had it back in shop - the belt broke and they went over it real good - it starts very easily and the lights all seem fine as I saw them checking them - Now my ignorance is bliss -

My big concern right now is that puddle of oil under the generator and there is oil on the tray - I went ahead this morning and called the help # and left a message really need an answer - which I'm sure is going to be wait until Monday - We want to get out of here, 5 weeks is for us has gotten old now, though we have enjoyed being here and feel we are almost voting residents of NAC

Gayland - We are liked here at Camp FOT but guess I better show them the bank balance and they'll cut us loose - Camp FOT is the RV customer parking area behind the repair shop here at Foretravel in case you've not been here - Foretravel treats every customer wonderfully - You'll have to come by, stay over it is free to FT coach owners and let your FT visit it's birthplace

Re: Generator Starting Problem

Reply #19 – July 10, 2010, 10:49:01 am

Hi Gayland,

Back to the original post,

I had a problem starting my Generator from the house batteries even after they were fully charged.

At that time I used the Boost switch (which engages the engine start batteries) and for some odd reason the generator started as it should have from the house batteries alone. When you do this the flow of power does not go into the house batteries but "around" them, supplementing their power to start the generator. You do need to be careful not to over use the engine start batteries as you could run both sets of batteries down if the genset does not start. When on shore power or if the gen-set is running both sets of batteries re-charge at the same time.
I started the gen-set this morning from the house batteries alone and everything worked fine!!!

Re: Generator Starting Problem

Reply #20 – July 10, 2010, 02:10:52 pm

Hi Gayland:

If your coach batteries are in a lower state of charge, you should see if you are still able to start your generator. If it starts quickly, great.

If not, use the Boost switch to get the generator started using both battery sets, so that you can charge up the coach batteries. When it starts, turn the boost switch OFF.

After the generator has been charging for one half hour, turn the boost switch back on so that you are able to also charge the engine battery(s) to a full state of charge.

Depending on the level of charge in the engine battery, charge it for a minimum of 30 minutes along with the coach batteries.

Then, with the generator running and the Boost switch ON, start the big diesel engine.

Allow it to warm up for 5 minutes prior to shutting the boost switch OFF and stopping the generator.

The above procedure will:

Avoid damaging your engine starter due to low voltage and excessive current.

Avoid damaging your engine alternator by overusing and abusing it to charge excessively discharged batteries.

Avoid being stranded someplace without adequate power to start your generator or your engine.

To have redundancy, one should carry a set of jumper cables adequate to charge the engine battery from your towed car (engine running)battery when all else has failed.

Re: Generator Starting Problem

Reply #21 – July 10, 2010, 11:24:02 pm

Okay Jon, that's all pretty clear, and logical. Thanks.

Virginia - are you saying your stay there isn't FREE? No, I've never been there. To tell the truth, I'd never even heard of Foretravel until a month ago.

Re: Generator Starting Problem

Reply #22 – July 11, 2010, 01:56:57 am

Update on my generator oil dripping problem - did get call back from 24/7 FOT and discussed - I found oil on back of pan and saw it dripping from bottom - We are here at FOT until further notice

I want a Palm Tree

Jon -
What would be adequate for charging the batteries re: I carry a Honda 2000-I inverter/generator 20amp, not sure this would help - Also, what grade jumper cables - I don't know the grade I have but they are rated to jump my E450 gas engine on my LD and above for what all that is worth - many things I don't really believe unless comes from a good source - HUM

Gayland - Well of course one is to consider staying at Camp FOT is free - just sign the check or swipe the card to pay the invoice - actually as long as your a FT owner you may stop/stay over - I'm sure if you need to stay for a while they may have a charge but am sure it is within reason - You've not been to NAC and FOT - my goodness, NAC is the oldest town in Texas and just darling and coming to FOT is a delight, the folks here are great - You'll be glad ya made the trip, really good place

Besides the Texas Piney woods are so beautiful - today I drove over to Waco to get my pickup and back the roads are just a pleasure to drive and the tree canopy through Dave Crockett National Forest is breath taking -

Y'all come on down now Ya Hear

Re: Generator Starting Problem

Reply #23 – July 11, 2010, 09:21:26 am

Looking through the previous owners stuff I see a brochure for a Pine Creek Lodge - is that the Piney Creek area thing you speak of? What is it, sage brush painted green??? JOKING

Virginia, (I'm assuming here I'm talking to Virgina, men don't want palm trees!) nice that they gave you a job - chamber of commerce for Texas!!! Actually, I have a sister that snowbirds in Mercedes, I've told her if she's really nice I might come park in her driveway for a few days. FOT can't be to far out of the way. I take it they (FOT) give you a complete shake down of the operation, etc. I've been learning it all by the "thousand questions to the friendly folks here" method.

And, finally a subject I can maybe give something back, although it will also cost a question. Regarding your Honda inverter, they make a cable for charging batteries, $12 bucks or so, it plugs right into the Honda. Or, buy a 110 battery charger and then you can use an extension cord and not have to carry the Honda around. It's not going to charge a battery real fast, but .... better than nothing. Jumper cables should be the best you can get, but even lighter ones will at least let you charge from one vehicle to another.

The question - are you just carrying the Honda along, or do you kind of have it mounted somewhere? The reason I ask is I'm contemplating "mounting" mine and wiring in a separate set of plugs for lite (not necessarily light) use when the big generator isn't appropriate or needed. Keep in mind that this is a new owner fervor thing and will need to withstand the test of time and thought before I do it.

Re: Generator Starting Problem

Reply #24 – July 15, 2010, 11:08:59 am

Contrary to popular opinion your generator develops 16.7 amps at 120 volts.

The built in battery charging system is only good for 8 amp charge which is OK for a last chance charge.

The Honda should be sufficient to operate a 25amp smart charger to charge your batteries when needed. It will just take more charging time that it will with your big diesel generator which does around 90-110 amps.

From a redundancy standpoint, you might want to trade the 1000 in for a unit like the Yamaha EF2400i or Honda EU3000i Handi so that you could run at least one air conditioner in a time of need.

I previously had a Yamaha 1000 and found it to be inadequate for various electrical needs. One concern, bigger is heavier.

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