Estimated charge time.

Topic: Estimated charge time. (Read 1815 times) previous topic - next topic

Estimated charge time.

December 10, 2010, 04:42:51 pm

Ok, as most of you know, I received my new Trik-l-start and have had it installed for about a week I guess. I have been plugged into shore power and today went out to see what the volts would show with and without boost swich on. I turned the key and there was basically nothing. I hit the boost and it started to turnover in a way that I knew it would start. I turned the boost off and then the start battery volts was very slowly coming up to about 9 but that was it. It did sound like there was a little juice the second time but the first time it did nothing at all. So I'm hoping I have everything connected correctly but thought I'd ask if anyone knew roughly what I could expect an almost dead 8D to take to charge? It's a non-gel.

I do have the boost inthe off position as it was suggested from a previous post.

Thanks in advance everyone

Re: Estimated charge time.

Reply #1 – December 10, 2010, 05:14:04 pm

Almost sounds like it is connected wrong. What I see online is 5 amp hours is all it will pull out of the other battery, so it will probably take a while. Seem to remember on my 93GV if you want the engine battery charged while connected to shore power turn the boost on which then puts the batteries together. From your post I would suspect the time you had the boost on was just enough to put a little charge back in the battery. I would love to know how the box senses when the system is connected to shore power so it knows when not to work.

Re: Estimated charge time.

Reply #2 – December 10, 2010, 05:35:48 pm

You have either a bad battery, bad Trik L Start, or incorrect wiring.

Start by checking battery voltage with shore power/generator OFF. Now, plug in and check voltage with the Trik L Start powered on. Let us know what your readings are.

Brett

Re: Estimated charge time.

Reply #3 – December 10, 2010, 08:06:24 pm

If I'm not mistaken, the trik-l-start is doing what it does regardless of shore power or not. .......I think?
Can I leave everything connected when I check voltage and just check the two house together and the start by itelf?

Just so it's known, my batteries were dead.....like dead dead, not just ran down a lot.
The new "chip" for my inverter seems to have the correct signal light on and the trik-l-start shows "maintaining".

Re: Estimated charge time.

Reply #4 – December 10, 2010, 08:16:05 pm

Carl,

Remind us, was the battery essentially dead before you hooked up the Trik-L-Start? If so, you probably should first put a regular, 10 amp external charger on the engine battery at least overnight. This might restore the cells to a point where the Trik-L-Start could MAINTAIN the charge, which is its advertised function, What do the LED lights on the Trik-L-Start show? Charging? Maintaining? Standby? If the light shows charging day in and out, I suspect the battery cells are WAY discharged.

Re: Estimated charge time.

Reply #5 – December 10, 2010, 08:25:43 pm

Quote

Carl's Quote: "If I'm not mistaken, the trik-l-start is doing what it does regardless of shore power or not. .......I think?"

No, you have to have shore power or generator running; otherwise, where would the amps for charging come from? The Trik-L-Start will not revive a dead battery; it will charge a partially depleted battery, but not bring it back from the dead. Don't know what to think about T-L-Start showing "maintaining" instead of "charging".

Re: Estimated charge time.

Reply #6 – December 10, 2010, 09:35:55 pm

If you have a cell reversed it may not hold a charge. If there is a draw against the battery over 5 amps, the 5 amps max from the house bank won't keep it up.

Re: Estimated charge time.

Reply #7 – December 10, 2010, 10:10:09 pm

When I looked at the web site, the question and answer section said it will not work without some source of external charge going to the house battery.

Re: Estimated charge time.

Reply #8 – December 11, 2010, 11:11:15 am

Alrighty then, getting back to
Don.....the start battery was in fact dead and not partial charged. The lights show maintaining, charging, and reverse polarity.

Now at Brett, I went out last night after your suggestion of checking voltage and with the shore power plugged in the start battery showed 10 volts and the 2 house batteries show13. When I unplugged the shore power it was the same. I checked twice and the results were the same. I just have a cheap little probe tester that I set to 50 and 10 and 13 showed up both times I tested. Now to Dave H., you mentioned if anything was running with a greater pull than 5amp....I personally don't have any thing "on". The inside coach power toggle is set to off while the shore power is plugged in. Having the shore power plugged in means all the electric do-dads are on...like the microwave clock, dash radio lights ( which I manually turn off ) and that little gauge that ready electric polarity. Those are the only things that I am aware of being "on"...but I would assume them being on is only using juice from the electricity and drawing no amps from the battery.

The start battery that was dead is an Interstate battery that was new in Aug. 08 and per the suggestion of this forum I made sure that the "make date" was fresh... and it was.
The house batteries that showed 13 amps were in the coach when we bought it and no one popped the date markers so I have no idea of their age.

If I have connected things incorrectly, wouldn't the T-L-S show reverse polarity.......or no?

The new "chip" piece I installed for the inverter has a light on it and it flashes for different reasons. I have to go out to look at the chart to see what it means but currently it flashes repeatedly every second. I think that means charging...but I'll have to go out and check to be 100%.

One thing NEW for us that's REALLY EXCITING this year is that the coach is on our back acre in it's OWN 56' x 22' pole barn, next to my other 30x40 barn ( complete with a 150', 4 lane H.O. scale slot car track permanently mounted on an 8'x24' table ) and the coach is NOT in the front of my wifes garage door so she has to back around it every time she leaves AND it's NOT blocking the entire view from our 12' picture window.

So, any work I have to do is always inside with plenty of room

I can and will go out shortly and check to again and see if anything has changed since last night.
Any other ideas folks?

Have an awesome day!

Re: Estimated charge time.

Reply #9 – December 11, 2010, 12:02:08 pm

This type problem can be simplified by staying away from the fancy TrickelRStart add on, Using a seperate charger for the engine battery makes troulbe shooting simple for the non electrical type owner. The dual charger being talked about, one has to have a real clear head to figure out where the problem is.
Think the KISS is the word for the answer
Merry Charistmas and KISS

Re: Estimated charge time.

Reply #10 – December 11, 2010, 12:49:35 pm

Dave M....understood, however, I had to decide for myself based on the helpful info here, what to do that would hopefully solve future frustration.

So, with that said I now have a T-L-S (Trik-L-Start) and the add on chip for my 9100 inverter. I know that there will be multiple choice sometimes with all the different info given and this seems to be where I am currently.

The T-L-S seems and seemed like the best choice for the least frustration long term with my lack of knowledge. AND....knowing that I'd have help on the worlds greatest forum

Now out to check the batteries again

Re: Estimated charge time.

Reply #11 – December 11, 2010, 02:14:28 pm

Todays volt reading almost looks like its up a slight bit. With shore connected the start was actually 11 and the house was 13.5.
With shore disconnected the start was what really looked like 10.5 and the house 13 on the heavy side.

I don't have a digital tool but there is certainly a difference between 10 last night and 11 today.

Is there hope?

The blinking light on the inverter add on indicates normal.

When I installed the T-L-S I found a pic online so I could see what connection meant what and then connected the 3 wires to what I believe at this time were the only 3 color choices I had.

I will either check tonight or tomorrow and see what things look like.

The weather just said that regardless of where you are in Michigan there was 10 inches coming. Could that be an accurate statement.....not to mention the 15+ we already have

Re: Estimated charge time.

Reply #12 – December 11, 2010, 04:24:00 pm

Carl,

Is the start battery an 8D or a smaller one? I can't remember the reason it is dead; I believe you told us in a previous message. A 2 year old battery should not be dead unless it was drained accidentally for an extended period. I'm afraid you are going to have to start over (i.e., bite the bullet and buy a new start battery) on the engine battery. Around here you can get a Continental 8D for about $130. Then your Trik-L-Start will be able to keep it charged without issue.

Re: Estimated charge time.

Reply #13 – December 11, 2010, 06:58:51 pm

Carl,

Sometimes you have to really hit a severely depleted battery before it will start taking a charge. With the coach plugged in or the gen running, I'd turn on the boost switch for at least three hours and see if the start battery voltage has started to move up. If it has, then leave the boost on until the coach and house battery banks are at roughly equal voltages. Then you can let the maintainer do its job. If you don't see the coach batteries start to react after three hours, it means you've damaged them beyond salvation, so you need to buy new ones.

Re: Estimated charge time.

Reply #14 – December 13, 2010, 08:13:03 am

well last night before coming in the house I checked the battery situation. I actually left the boost switch on for about 7 hours.

I've got to head out to clean a few chimneys this morning ( it's 10 degrees here ) so I'll give you the readers digest version.

After the boost was left on for a while both batteries seemed to be up. The house bank was close to the same at 12-13 but the good news is that the start battery showed about 12 but it wouldn't start the coach without the boost on.

After the boost was on and then I shut it off the T-L-S was showing CHARGING ( YIPEE )
and the chip add-on for the inverter has changed a couple times from different automatic modes.

I think the boost gave it the jump start it needed. Thanks for that little tidbit Brett.

Later I'll share a report......I sure hope I'm on down hill side of this.

Make it a great day folks

Re: Estimated charge time.

Reply #15 – December 14, 2010, 01:55:14 am

Quote from: spoiled122843 – December 10, 2010, 10:10:09 pm

When I looked at the web site, the question and answer section said it will not work without some source of external charge going to the house battery.

I don't know what web site you and Don are looking at. "No AC Power Cord "Steals" DC power from your RV's house battery charger - No AC wiring or extension cords required!" That quote is straight from Trik-L-Start's website at: http://www.lslproducts.com/TLSPage.html . Check it out again. It is not a battery charger, but more of a power thief! It is only 5 amp out, dependent on the condition of the house battery! When the start battery is as depleted as your was, they sometimes need to be "fooled" into taking a charge.

Another quote from their site: "it will supply up to 5 amp-hours of charge to your starting battery(s) for every hour of generator operation. Unfortunately, the parastic loads in some motorhomes are large enough to drain 20 to 100 amp-hours over a week's time! Obviously, it would take many hours of generator operation to replenish this many amp-hours at TRIK-L-START's 5 amp maximum rate. For this reason, occasionally running the generator to recharge your starting battery(s) may be too time-consuming and wasteful of fuel to be practical. A much better solution is to either leave the motorhome connected to AC shore power, or install a solar panel - with either of these charging sources present, TRIK-L-START™ will do a VERY efficient job of keeping your starting battery(s) charged."

And Carl, would love to see your HO layout - pictures?? You have my brain working in overtime!

Re: Estimated charge time.

Reply #16 – December 14, 2010, 09:59:46 am

From the lslproducts web site under frequently asked questions is this question and answer, "I STORE MY MOTOR HOME WITHOUT ANY AC HOOKUPS. CAN TRIK-L-START™ BE USED TO DRAW POWER FROM MY HOUSE BATTERIES TO KEEP MY STARTING BATTERIES CHARGED? No, TRIK-L-START™ only works when there is a house battery charging source (i.e., DC power converter, inverter/charger or solar panels) present.

In the absence of this charging source, TRIK-L-START™ is effectively disconnected, and doesn't supply any charge to your starting battery(s).

Re: Estimated charge time.

Reply #17 – December 14, 2010, 12:09:19 pm

Quote from: spoiled122843 – December 14, 2010, 09:59:46 am

From the lslproducts web site under frequently asked questions is this question and answer, "I STORE MY MOTOR HOME WITHOUT ANY AC HOOKUPS. CAN TRIK-L-START™ BE USED TO DRAW POWER FROM MY HOUSE BATTERIES TO KEEP MY STARTING BATTERIES CHARGED? No, TRIK-L-START™ only works when there is a house battery charging source (i.e., DC power converter, inverter/charger or solar panels) present.

In the absence of this charging source, TRIK-L-START™ is effectively disconnected, and doesn't supply any charge to your starting battery(s).

But they also make the claim "No AC Power Cord "Steals" DC power from your RV's house battery charger - No AC wiring or extension cords required!" Unless you charge you house batteries with your generator or with a solar charger. As I said, this all depends on the condition of your house batteries. The device is a thief, not a charger. It steals it power from the house battery and transfers it to the chassis battery at a maximum of 5 amps per hour. If the house battery has nothing to give.....well, then your chassis battery gets nothing.

As to their marketing claims, I would be hard pressed to say that two fully charged 8D deep cycle batteries, not hooked to a external charger, would not transfer voltage to the chassis battery for a short time period. That seems to be their claim. I know what you are saying and they seem to be saying it both ways.

Re: Estimated charge time.

Reply #18 – December 14, 2010, 01:47:53 pm

I have a couple of two-cents-worths to add.

This is a battery maintainer, not a charger. It is designed to keep the parasitic loads from discharging a battery while sitting, not recharge a dead battery. Best to start with a healthy and well charged battery. A long drive, an external charger, or the boost switch will take care of this.

It does steal power from the house batteries, but can only do so if the house batteries are at least a diode voltage drop above the chassis battery voltage. In other words, it works when the house batteries are receiving charge.

Re: Estimated charge time.

Reply #19 – December 14, 2010, 01:57:03 pm

Quote from: Tom Lang – December 14, 2010, 01:47:53 pm

I have a couple of two-cents-worths to add.

This is a battery maintainer, not a charger. It is designed to keep the parasitic loads from discharging a battery while sitting, not recharge a dead battery. Best to start with a healthy and well charged battery. A long drive, an external charger, or the boost switch will take care of this.

It does steal power from the house batteries, but can only do so if the house batteries are at least a diode voltage drop above the chassis battery voltage. In other words, it works when the house batteries are receiving charge.

Tom,
Thank you, thank you, thank you...You've explained the functionality of the TLS so now anyone can understand it...

Re: Estimated charge time.

Reply #20 – December 14, 2010, 03:33:08 pm

I think I've come tote point Don Hay mentioned......I need a new start battery even though the one I have is only 2 years old. My wife reminded me that last year I thought I over did something while changing as I had been manually plugging in and unplugging the coach and one time I left it on way to long and noticed a lot of fluid missing in the cells. I topped it off with distilled h2o and have been going every since. After I took the coach off BOOST mode while charging last week and let the batteries set a bit, the start dropped from 12-ish back down to 10-11 and the T-L-S went back to maintaining mode. I am sure that the T-L-S cuts out when the start drops to low.

As for those posting about e functionality o the T-L-S....I understand that it is not a charger and does nothing when there i no shore type power connected. I wanted this device while my shore is plugged in for the winter and to be sure that everything was topped off when ready to use.

So, I guess I'm going to have to get another Interstate 8D from my local guy.

Re: Estimated charge time.

Reply #21 – December 14, 2010, 05:55:14 pm

Carl, I am a little confused. Are you saying you are using an Interstate 8D as a starting battery. I have only seen 8d's used as house batteries.

Also, Interstate 8D's are available at Sam's Club for under $150.00 or at least they were last year. You may want to check out Sam's it you are going to buy a new one.

Re: Estimated charge time.

Reply #22 – December 14, 2010, 06:06:38 pm

Kent,

8D is a size, not a technology. You can find 8D starting batteries, deep cycle wet cell batteries and deep cycle AGM batteries. Our house batteries are 8D Lifeline AGM's.

Brett

Re: Estimated charge time.

Reply #23 – December 14, 2010, 06:35:37 pm

Brett, I realize 8D's are a size but the ones I have seen, which have been Lead/Acid were although not true Deep Cycle batteries, more geared for Deep Cycle type use. I don't recall them having the CCA that the typical group 34 starting batteries have. I have just never seen anyone using 8D's as starting batteries and would like to know if there is some benefit to using 8D's.

Re: Estimated charge time.

Reply #24 – December 14, 2010, 07:35:16 pm

Here is a common truck 8D starting (chassis) battery from Interstate: http://www.interstatebatteries.com/cs_eStore/Products/RT/PID-8D-XHD%28Commercial%29.aspx?dsNavigation=Ns~product+Type|101|1|%2cN~2147384908-4275851948-4275851903&Title=Workaholic+-+1155+CCA

Brett

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