Information share, 1999

Topic: Information share, 1999 - 2001 FTs (Read 1938 times) previous topic - next topic

Information share, 1999 - 2001 FTs

April 09, 2012, 06:23:12 pm

I do not know how much discussion of these coaches might relate to other years and models. Our coach is the U320 and comments are for 2000 - 2001 with the Cummins ISM 450 hp. Perhaps some of this is relevant to models in 1995-1997 with M11 400 hp engines and 1998 - 1999 at 450 hp? I am told by some that the M11 and ISM are much the same.

In discussions with owners of the 1999 - 2001 FTs, we have exchanged information to advantage. In that spirit, please reply with whatever you can share to build a knowledge base on these years and correct errors in my understandings. Our just new to us 2001 FT has the ISM 450 hp engine, no tag axle. I am told that 1999-2001 were some of the largest production years at FOT and thus why I am meeting so many folks with these.

1 The M11 engine is to have the valves and injectors adjusted at 120,000. Some tell me that as these are not loaded to the commercial truck 80,000 lbs limit, that is not so important. Others disagree, that it is not about weight but engine hours, rpms and whatever. Anyway, I had ours adjusted and found that several intakes were tight (the mechanic said that was normal with mileage, to be expected, and adjusted)

I have been told that this engine does not need nor should be given fuel additives (lubricity). If I feel I just must do something, then I could add some injector cleaner periodically. Algaecide is acceptable if I felt that I need it. Per Cummins.

2. If you change the fuel filter, you do not pre-fill the filter with diesel. It said this in the manual I found by accident, but it took a mechanic to explain why. This seems to only apply to the M11/ISM, not the other engines in the 270 or 295s. In another model engine, I had learned to pre-fill the filter

3. When parked to "store" for a few weeks or so, put the level system into "Travel" mode, not the Level mode.

4. My radiator cannot be easily inspected as there is no door to open (this is discussed elsewhere in ForeForum). But you need to make the effort. We did not have the coach more than a few months and the radiator failed. More importantly, a good visual inspection may have shown the failing radiator. As Don Hay told me, fortunately this did not happen in the middle of a trip and service was easy to come by. I cannot say why it failed but the fluid was good. The common failure I am told is at the tank bolts and that is what this one showed. I wonder if vibration over the years had a role? The new radiator has a different brace.

I asked at Xtreme if they have a modification to allow access to better clean the radiator. Not readily. A bird nest had been built along the tank bolt ends. I wonder about using some nylon mesh (as from landscape nursery) to cover the vent when parked at home? Maybe overly concerned, I doubt many birds want to live in there.

5. You know to monthly or so open the wet drain vent on the air lines. One vent, the most important I am told, is just forward of the rear driver-side tire. The other tanks though are under the front of the coach. A salesman suggested I not crawl under to do this without a stand to keep the coach from falling if the air pressure failed. The alternative is to reroute the drain vent valve to a place you can access without getting under the coach. We have done that.

6. Our coach came with an inoperable outdated satellite receiver. To install a new one, Xtreme will remove the old, repair the holes with fiberglass and cover the roof with a paint/glass material. Then MOT will install a satellite dish. We need to decide whether to go with Directv or Dish.

7. There is a thread about waxing coaches. Ours is painted. Xtreme said waxing was not necessary however it can be improved by very gently buffing, etc. I am cautioned that it is easy to leave swirls in the paint or gel coat if you are not experienced in this, there are better ways than a wool circular buffer and polish. To be done. How is still to decide. One friend though use a clay bar, I decided that not for me. Hmmm.

8. Carol and Jeff just got a new step and I really like it over our entry step that is one step, narrow fold down. In time I hope to get ours done like theirs. At the moment the safest exit I am told is to back out to keep the ball of your foot on the step.

9. I did get an XM radio into the dash. Took some modification, but it gets bluetooth, etc. Good addition. Takes a double din radio and to modify the radio bezel to fit properly. Very neat. I met Lee, he had a 2001 and did the same thing.

10. Our coach is heavy on the front axle. and needed H load range tires. The front axle gvwr is 13,880 lbs and fully loaded we are at 13,140 lbs. For 275/80R22.5 Michelin XZA3 LRH tires, that translates to high pressure required on the front tires. I do not have weight on the individual tires. I use an IR "gun" to monitor tire and hub temperature when on trips.

11. Someone told me that there can be a problem of rain water entering the rear area of the coach via the vents by the camera. You might want to research that. He showed me a little aluminum "awning" he made over the vent, using rivets. I understand this is on the forum somewhere and it may be important to know, prevent.

12. I am running about 65 mph at 1400 rpm in default mode. Best performance rpm is stated to be 1700 - 1800, which would be going too fast for me (us) and probably the highway patrol. I had an ISL and ran higher rpm at the same mph speed. Bret Wolfe wrote about the economy mode in FMCA and Barry Beam covers; I need to try that.

13. Xtreme told me that these model coaches tend to be quite good but are subject to specific areas that can need attention. They are to inspect, give me a report when they do the roof paint. I will post what areas they point out.

14. The 1999 coach I believe was the first to have a slide out and that was only on special editions coaches, almost an experimental year. But it continued through 2001 that there is an emergency slide retract procedure if the slide will not operate. If you are not familiar with this, it is covered in some FOT literature and includes a nylon strap with a ratchet. If you need details of this procedure and do not find it in what you have, I can send it to you. It is comforting to know.

15. On the 2001, and I suppose back to 1999, there are locking pins that hold the slide in place. These may be used on other years? On ours, the bushings around the pins were worn and at low driving speeds the slide made a rattling noise. If you hear some heavy rattling noise around the slides that is pretty loud, you might check those. MOT fixed this for us.

16. Upon recommendation of MOT's Keith Risch and Keith Davis, and confirmation by several in the following content of this thread, we are going to replace the Winn 20/20 original equipment fuel filer system with the fuel assist pump. It is prone to some problems that can leave you stranded or you may do a temporary fix on the road. Rather than take the chance, we will follow the lead of a number of folks on the Forum that have converted to an alternative system recommended by MOT.

Please post corrections or other ideas of things that might help operate or maintain these model coaches.
Mike

Re: Information share, 1999 - 2001 FTs

Reply #1 – April 09, 2012, 06:46:25 pm

Quote from: Michael Jackie – April 09, 2012, 06:23:12 pm

Someone told me that there can be a problem of rain water entering the rear area of the coach via the vents by the camera. You might want to research that. He showed me a little aluminum "awning" he made over the vent, using rivets. I understand this is on the forum somewhere and it may be important to know, prevent.

Please post corrections or other ideas of things that might help operate or maintain these model coaches.
Mike

John Haygarth did a modification like that.
Is this what you are looking for?
Rear Air Deflector

Re: Information share, 1999 - 2001 FTs

Reply #2 – April 09, 2012, 07:02:32 pm

I love our 2000 4010 - agree with all your points. Will add that if you have a slide unit, there has been some delamination in the slide as reported (mine and "Moose" - George had his repaired at Xtreme - I will next trip and add the stair mod -

Headlight conversion a must have for me, I got LED tailights and love them as well. Enjoy!

Re: Information share, 1999 - 2001 FTs

Reply #3 – April 09, 2012, 07:39:02 pm

Wow! Lots to digest. It seems the more I read and learn the more I need to read and learn! Thanks for your post I will be rereading it a few times.

Re: Information share, 1999 - 2001 FTs

Reply #4 – April 09, 2012, 08:34:15 pm

I run the speed limit with economy on with no issues at about 1400 too. Makes no difference what mode it is in. The mode change the shift points and allows you to stay in 6th gear as yo slw down and when you accelerate as well. Without it being on, you will downshift to 5th.

Re: Information share, 1999 - 2001 FTs

Reply #5 – April 09, 2012, 08:37:12 pm

Also, I store mine in level but I am plugged in. When I was without power I would drop it down and shut off the fridge.

Re: Information share, 1999 - 2001 FTs

Reply #6 – April 09, 2012, 10:21:19 pm

Barry, thanks....yep that is it. I saw one of those done, seems important. I will go read the link you sent. And thanks for other feedbacks, glad you like the subject.

I do have the headlight conversion, it came that way. And sold on the steps, just need get money together for that. But, what about the taillight conversion? General idea of costs? Is there a functional benefit or good looks main idea (and that fine with me). I will ask Xtreme about that work but think on safety side I really need to do the step first if I can only do one now.....Jeff convinced me easily of that. Thanks to each of you, Mike

Re: Information share, 1999 - 2001 FTs

Reply #7 – April 09, 2012, 11:36:14 pm

what is the downside of leaving the auto level system when the unit is in storage? for years I have parked my coach with the auto level on for several months at a time, with no apparent problems.

Re: Information share, 1999 - 2001 FTs

Reply #8 – April 09, 2012, 11:52:04 pm

Can one of you seasoned Foretravelers give me some additional input on the draining of the wet drain vent on the air lines. This the first i have heard of this. Is it critically necessary or is this something that is done as part of the maintenance. I am not much of a wrench so I have most of the work done our coach.

Re: Information share, 1999 - 2001 FTs

Reply #9 – April 10, 2012, 12:01:00 am

as I mentioned I had the taillights done, and who knows it may be safer back there, I am always up front in the pilots seat -xtreme does change the back up lighting for the positive, but really, I just love the way they look.

Re: Information share, 1999 - 2001 FTs

Reply #10 – April 10, 2012, 08:22:08 am

Quote from: Scott Beard – April 09, 2012, 11:52:04 pm

Can one of you seasoned Foretravelers give me some additional input on the draining of the wet drain vent on the air lines. This the first i have heard of this. Is it critically necessary or is this something that is done as part of the maintenance. I am not much of a wrench so I have most of the work done our coach.

Scott,
This is more of a habitual daily process than anything else...brushing your teeth? Check this drain line to ensure there is no water in the air lines...that's all.

Re: Information share, 1999 - 2001 FTs

Reply #11 – April 10, 2012, 08:25:43 am

Quote from: Wayne Macauley – April 09, 2012, 11:36:14 pm

what is the downside of leaving the auto level system when the unit is in storage? for years I have parked my coach with the auto level on for several months at a time, with no apparent problems.

Wayne,
No downside. Only if you do not have access to electric in your storage situation, then the batteries are likely to drain from the auxiliary air compressor running (if needed) to keep the coach level.

Again, just to reiterate from previous postings...not recommended to leave the coach unattended with genset in auto-start...definitely a no-no if the coach is stored in an enclosed garage.

Re: Information share, 1999 - 2001 FTs

Reply #12 – April 10, 2012, 08:55:15 am

Thanks Peter. Does anyone have a picture of this drain line. I have had my coach two years and have never checked it and not sure what to look for. Thanks again for educating the mechancially challenged here on Foreforums Peter.

Re: Information share, 1999 - 2001 FTs

Reply #13 – April 10, 2012, 09:16:47 am

Quote from: Scott Beard – April 10, 2012, 08:55:15 am

Thanks Peter. Does anyone have a picture of this drain line. I have had my coach two years and have never checked it and not sure what to look for. Thanks again for educating the mechancially challenged here on Foreforums Peter.

The main drain line is located forward of the drivers' side duals axle. Reach in there and you'll feel the petcock to release the air. If you can get down far enough, you can see it and from that time on the job will be much easier.

The front tank drain valve is located right on the tank so it cannot be reached from the side of the coach. As mentioned here before, do not do this by crawling under the coach without proper safety blocks installed in case the air bags should fail while you're under the coach...human pancake time...if you know what I mean.

Some folks have installed an extension for the front tank so it can be drained the same as the rear tank.

Re: Information share, 1999 - 2001 FTs

Reply #14 – April 10, 2012, 09:31:03 am

1. Your experience with tight valves proves that Cummins' recommendations are correct.

2. Don't pre-fill with unfiltered fuel. Use the purge function.

3. Use level mode if you have power.

4. FT just found a loose radiator bolt on mine at 115,000 miles.

5. I've never seen water at a drain, but I change my air dryer filters every 18 months. If you find water, you're late for a filter change and risking air system damage.

6. I threw out my domed dish and installed a Winegard DirecTV one.

7. I only wash my Xtreme FBP per their instructions.

8. The DW hated the original step. Xtreme changed to the Kwikee two step electric one.

9. Correct. I run 110psi on the front, 80psi on the rest.

10. Never had a problem.

11. Peak torque is at 1500rpm, where performance is best.

Re: Information share, 1999 - 2001 FTs

Reply #15 – April 10, 2012, 10:04:24 am

Quote from: Scott Beard – April 10, 2012, 08:55:15 am

Thanks Peter. Does anyone have a picture of this drain line.

Scott,

The photos here are for an '03, but it will give you an idea of what to look for

Draining Air Tanks

Michelle

Re: Information share, 1999 - 2001 FTs

Reply #16 – April 10, 2012, 10:18:30 am

Quote from: Scott Beard – April 10, 2012, 08:55:15 am

Does anyone have a picture of this drain line. I have had my coach two years and have never checked it and not sure what to look for. Thanks again for educating the mechanically challenged here on Foreforums Peter.

Air Reservoir Drain Proceedure
by Arvin Meritor

To prevent serious eye injury, always wear safe eye protection when you perform vehicle maintenance or service. Park the vehicle on a level surface. Block the wheels to prevent the vehicle from moving. Support the vehicle with safety stands. Do not work under a vehicle supported only by jacks. Jacks can slip and fall over. Serious personal injury and damage to components can result. Remove all pressure from the air system before you disconnect any component, including the desiccant cartridge. Pressurized air can cause serious personal injury.

1. Begin with the supply reservoir. With the air system under   normal operating pressure, momentarily open the drain valve and watch for evidence of moisture, i.e., a spray or droplets. If there is no evidence of moisture: Close the valve. If moisture is detected: Repeatedly open the drain valve   for short periods of time, several seconds at most, until   moisture is no longer visibly ejected from the reservoir. Wait several seconds between each opening to allow moisture to flow back to the drain valve area inside the   reservoir. Once nothing is detected, close the drain valve   and go on to the next reservoir.

2. If during the process of trying to eliminate all moisture from the reservoir, the air pressure drops to ZERO, leave the valve open for several seconds, then close it. The likelihood of   draining additional moisture by leaving the valve open is negligible.

3. Repeat this process with all remaining reservoirs. This procedure is intended to remove all liquid from the reservoir without completely draining the air. The less the air compressor and   air dryer have to work to refill the system, the more efficiently the air   dryer will function. Completely refilling the whole air system volume every day puts an unnecessary moisture load on the air dryer, which will require additional purge and regeneration cycles in order to   reach a stabilized dryness condition. If there is excessive moisture in the air system on a daily basis, one   or all of the following procedures may be necessary.   Check the system for air leaks. Replace the vehicle's air dryer desiccant cartridge. Evaluate the vehicle application to determine that the correct components have been used.

Re: Information share, 1999 - 2001 FTs

Reply #17 – April 10, 2012, 11:58:31 am

6 - Agree - I had wineguard traveler for Dish and Dome for Direct - Dish has the best deal for occasional users - turn on and off for specific periods of time with no fees other than subscription - and the Wineguard traveler locks on ervery time with a push of a button - and seems to see through most trees - not an in motion, but is HD

Re: Information share, 1999 - 2001 FTs

Reply #18 – April 10, 2012, 01:30:35 pm

Wayne asked: "what is the downside of leaving the auto level system when the unit is

Quote

in storage? "

Like you, I have been leaving my HWH system on at "Level", with the monitoring light on while storing for several months at a time. done this for 8 1/2 years. No problems. However, just a couple weeks ago I asked a very competent mechanic at MOT if I should continue doing that. He recommended AGAINST that because if one of the "6 pack" solenoids goes out or if a leak develops the system could misinterpret the problem and inflate one side to an extreme, thus causing twist or torsion to the frame. He has seen front windows popped out while in storage because of leaving the HWH leveling system on. He therefore recommends for storage, that, IF ON FAIRLY LEVEL GROUND, leaving the system in "Travel" or "Drive", not Level, then lowering all four corners together (he didn't say "dump entirely") and turn engine and system off. Understand that this procedure is just when you won't be around the coach for long periods of time.

So, that's what I have begun doing. I just lower the bags until they are a couple inches above being empty, and turn off the system. Seems to work OK>

Re: Information share, 1999 - 2001 FTs

Reply #19 – April 10, 2012, 03:54:08 pm

Wayne, I apologize I am so tardy and perhaps others have responded but I am in a bit of a time bind so here is the reason I was given by Keith Davis of MOT.

If I leave the coach in "level" and the system fails (air leak), the little compressor will keep running to try to maintain level and in time burn up. If I leave it in travel mode, or dump the air, I do not run that risk.

That said, I "store" the coach for probably a month and with the slides in and on a pretty level site. As for dumping the air, that is a good alternative. In that, you have some mechanical adjustable stops that allow adjusting the coach to rest on the frame and that is proper. I read in the Foreforum some time back about some having problems, or they might have, IF the coach rested solely on the tires with no weight to the air bags and frame.....which would be unusual I gather but something to check if you used the dump air route.

I hope that helps. Sorry for my tardiness. I hope this discussion, the focus on these model years is valuable but apparently it has also brought up reviews and discussions of topics that would relate to most any year. Cheers, Mike

Re: Information share, 1999 - 2001 FTs

Reply #20 – April 11, 2012, 12:29:45 am

Thanks to Michele and Barry for the insight on how to deal with the air resorvoir drain procedure. Had no idea that needed to be done and will make sure it is going forward. You guys are a constant wealth of information.

Re: Information share, 1999 - 2001 FTs

Reply #21 – April 11, 2012, 12:31:21 am

Sorry I also forgot Peter. Thank you for the info. We are getting ready to take a 3 month trip and I knew most of the items discussed except for this one.

Re: Information share, 1999 - 2001 FTs

Reply #22 – April 11, 2012, 12:48:56 am

Scott, if you read my original posting you will see the reference to the drain valve, need to open occasionally and alternative location. As for how to reroute the front one, I can take a picture if you want but due to the sensitivity I have about air systems, I just had MOT do this. Result: Not expensive. Simple. Safe location, encourages monthly check.

Now for a bit more information that I left out, that I was going to only report if someone had a problem. I hope this is very rare but can be a very significant issue. I was unable to raise the coach as I needed to climb a hill.

I had clay in my lines. The clay was in a regulator and knocked out two solenoids. This can be a big inconvenience if I was on the road . It may be so rare that it need not concern you. I do not know. But the cause almost certainly was the failure of timely changing of a cartridge in the air filter/drying system. It is filled with clay balls that over time will deteriorate to a powder if left in service too long and clay powder can enter the lines. Message: keep that canister changed on a timely basis. The fix: I talked to Haldex. They recommenced disconnect the wet tank, cleaning with soap and water, drying, reconnecting. Do not use organic solvents. If you or others are interested, I can give a more in-depth report but I think the simple fix is to avoid the problem. Timely maintenance. Others may give you a more complete technical explanation, this is just my simple one! But I think it a good place to start. Mike

Re: Information share, 1999 - 2001 FTs

Reply #23 – April 11, 2012, 11:30:19 am

In recalling things that are related to the 1999 - 2001 coaches, I have modified the original posted list to add these two items. I do not know if they apply to any other years.

14. The 1999 coach I believe was the first to have a slide out and that was only on special editions coaches, almost an experimental year. But it continued through 2001 that there is an emergency slide retract procedure if the slide will not operate. If you are not familiar with this, it is covered in some FOT literature and includes a nylon strap with a ratchet. If you need details of this procedure and do not find it in what you have, I can send it to you. It is comforting to know.

15. On the 2001, and I suppose back to 1999, there are locking pins that hold the slide in place. These may be used on other years? On ours, the bushings around the pins were worn and at low driving speeds the slide made a rattling noise. If you hear some heavy rattling noise around the slides that is pretty loud, you might check those. MOT fixed this for us.

Have a great Wednesday, Mike

Re: Information share, 1999 - 2001 FTs

Reply #24 – April 11, 2012, 02:10:00 pm

Quote from: Michael Jackie – April 11, 2012, 11:30:19 am

In recalling things that are related to the 1999 - 2001 coaches, I have modified the original posted list to add these two items. I do not know if they apply to any other years.

14. The 1999 coach I believe was the first to have a slide out and that was only on special editions coaches, almost an experimental year. But it continued through 2001 that there is an emergency slide retract procedure if the slide will not operate. If you are not familiar with this, it is covered in some FOT literature and includes a nylon strap with a ratchet. If you need details of this procedure and do not find it in what you have, I can send it to you. It is comforting to know.

Here are the procedures
HWH Emergency Retract Room Procedures

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