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Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #175
Craig,
It is nice to be able to run the way we are comfy as to speed and ability to keep up or pass at will that only comes with enough power to get it done, For me, the resonator was the first step (a wake up to the new found power). For those who feel the resonator does not work due to many dreamed up issues, I wish them warm smoke blown up their dress. The second step

Dave... I'm not trying to judge here... but from the remarks made on rv.net by people with Banks kits installed where they say they get more power but no better fuel efficiency I just got the impression that they were enjoying the power.

Even though I don't mind doing 60 that doesn't mean I like to crawl up hills. Having the Banks gives me cheaper RV use (and I'm on Social Security so pennies count) along with enough power to stay at a nice cruising speed.

I expect the resonator to give me even more improvement; not to mention lower the weight of the rig (that muffler is gigantic!!!).

Craig
1993 U225 36' Unihome GV with PACBRAKE exhaust retarder, Banks Stinger and Solar Panels.
Toad: 1999 Jeep Wrangler 2-door soft-top.

"No one has ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke."

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #176
A question:  How do you increase the HP on an ISM from 450 to 500?  Can a similar increase be done for my ISL (400HP)?


Craig,
It is nice to be able to run the way we are comfy as to speed and ability to keep up or pass at will that only comes with enough power to get it done, For me, the resonator was the first step (a wake up to the new found power). For those who feel the resonator does not work due to many dreamed up issues, I wish them warm smoke blown up their dress.

The second step was the change from the 450HP @ 1450 Torque to the new 500HP @ 1550 Torque.  That is when the big wake up came into play, with the added 100 ft lb torque, that feels like a lot of HP kick in the butt, pull out and pass cars & trucks on big hills while towing the Ford P/U.  I know it is capable of better mpg, but fuel is the cheapest part of a coach, so I enjoy the getter up and get it done, sure beats the slow lane and being trapped.
Enjoy
Dave M
Tom Lang K6PG (originally  KC6UEC)
and Diane Lang
2003 38 U295 build 6209
2016 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Ecodiesel
still have tow-ready 2006 Acura MDX 
Temple City, California
Motorcade 16681 California Chapter President
SKP 16663 member of SKP Park of the Sierra, Coarsegold California
FMCA F071251
Retired electrical and electronic engineer

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #177
Chuck,

No, was just having some fun! :D Actually, the 6V-92TAs are used in boats with 525 to 550 hp with as much as 614 hp using a couple of turbos. The TBO (time between overhaul) is usually at least a couple of thousand hours with turbo failure more likely than engine failure. Here is a quote from a 6V-92TA boat forum owner with a couple of 550 hp 6V-92TAs:

"I had the 550hp versions in a 92'45' vilking convertable.Despite some of the negatives said at times about these older Detriots' mine were flawless-never had a single problem.If I remember right I cruised at 24-25knts burning roughly 40-45 gal an hour.Cruised the boat from the mid-atlantic to Stuart fl twice and put significant hrs on the motors. When I sold it I had close to two thousand hrs-good compression and very little smoke-only on a cold start and getting on plane.Get a survey and adjust offers based on findings-good luck."

This is only one of a lot of great reviews for this engine that I have come across. I have absolutely tortured Detroit 2 cycles since 1967 without a complaint. Almost half of our responses were with dead cold engines (no block heater) to full throttle and out to 2400 rpm within several seconds of startup. Made me a real believer.

They were the engines of choice in sport fishermen for a lot of years. Most of the reviews have been really positive with some posts pointing out issues that our members using the same engines may want to consider. Sort of accelerated wear testing with this much horsepower.

Other marine engine forums are also out there featuring CATs and Cummins. Interested members may just search with Google using keywords like CAT, forum, marine, boat, etc. Here is the forum I lifted the quote from: 6V92 Detroit Diesel? - The Hull Truth - Boating and Fishing Forum

Can't imagine your Banks Stinger kit having any effect on engine life.

Pierce


I'm real familiar with The Hull Truth, documented the self build of my aluminum pilothouse offshore cat on there, as a matter of fact.  I've found 2 stroke DD engines to be great for stationary power, less so for mobile.  Never seen one that didn't puke oil due to pressurized crankcase and never seen a hopped up one last.  On the other hand the naturally aspirated 671 will run forever at 160 hp which is what it was designed for.  It will also documented as continuing to run with .50 cal projectiles through a couple of cylinders.  As far as the guy with the 6v92's @ 550 hp with 2K hours TBO, I suspect he had a boat for sale, or, possibly, he had the rarest of setups.  Perfectly tuned engines, immaculate heat exchangers and pumps,  proper gearing, perfect pitch on props and a light hand on the throttles.  Like a lot of other guys I've been around boats a lot, my experience is more with offshore charter/headboats as an owner.  For durability, Deere, Cummins, Cat.  For heartaches Mann.  For short term H.O. DD.  My experience. Others may well differ.   
"Not so  long ago we were a nation of risk takers, riding five million pounds of  thrust straight into space."  Joe Gresh
Chuck Pearson
1996 U295
2018 Can Am X3 TurboRS

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #178
A question:  How do you increase the HP on an ISM from 450 to 500?  Can a similar increase be done for my ISL (400HP)?

You have a physically smaller engine.  Maybe call gale banks?

"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #179
As for the ISL, I have zero experience with it, and the Banks might be a good bang for the buck, again unknown to me.
As for the ISM 450 to ISM500, it only cost $3,400.00 at Cummins shop for parts, ECM program and labor.
There are still no free lunch's, why I only had it setup to the standard ISM500 setting, and with Cummins blessing. 
Taking the engine up beyond Cummins settings, I call hot rodding,so enjoy.
Still the cheapest part of a coach is the fuel.
Dave M

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #180
Well I took the plunge and had the muffler removed and resonator installed. I could not tell the difference on my 5 mile drive home in traffic but we are going on a 2000 mile trip soon. I will report back with fuel economy.
1999 U320
Mount Dora Fl

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #181
driving 5 miles or so on local roads, not the high speed roads in the country and maybe no grades or mtns to corss, it would be little difficult to see a big difference.  However if you are in tune with your coach and get it on the big road, I would guess you will see a difference.  It is not additional 100 hp, more like 30-40 is my guess, harde to detect if you  are not aware of its performance.  Seems others clearly see the difference, so I would not panic just yet, give it a little time and on some grades, you might find it a little more joyful like others have.
For me It was very clear first time out with the toad and not until I hit a big hill, then it was clear, it works much better.

As for the fuel saving, that is a very evassive issue, when you run faster up hills fuel goes with it, as the old saying no free lunch, even with fuel when you drive quicker.
Enjoy
Dave M

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #182
Hi Steve. Have you noticed any performance improvements from this replacement? What encouraged you to make the change? Sorry for the geeky questions, im just a bit of a motorhead. It sure looks like a better install. If you ever take a video of your coach running i would love to see it. Michael Riensche
Michael & Ginny
Frankfort, KY
1992 U240 GV Build #4116
2007 Mini Cooper

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #183
Rereading some of the responses gives me a chuckle, the fact still remains, if after you change to the resonator with added power,  IF your drive it the same speed as you did prior to the change, your mileage will improve, the problem with that is EVERYONE keeps the foot on the floor, going little faster and burning more fuel, so they do not think it does any better.
Could give you a prime example of a MD Doc with a 4104 GM with a 6-71, that had no power due to valve clearance way off and injectors not opening to full fuel position, after I tuned it correctly, he now can pass trucks etc, but says the fuel mileage went down, Dah !! :o  Correct, it now had full power.
Some days are more comical and you just laugh out loud.

Dave M

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #184
I love the sound of the coach now especially when I pass a convertible and have some throttle left....
2025 Wanderbox Outpost 32 on F600 Expedition Motorhome
2015 Born Free Royal Splendor on Ford 550 nonslide version  for sale
Former Coaches  covering. 360,000 miles
1999 34 U270
2000 36 U320
2001 42' double slide U320
2018 Jeep Rubicon

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #185
The point I forgot to make is the fact that you can't have it both ways, more power and less fuel consuption.
I am happy with the better power and the ability to back off and burn less fuel,  you just can not get both at the same time  :o

Dave M

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #186
The point I forgot to make is the fact that you can't have it both ways, more power and less fuel consuption.
I am happy with the better power and the ability to back off and burn less fuel,  you just can not get both at the same time  :o

Yup.

I suspect that lots of people who move to Banks and report no change in fuel economy are using the power side more than they think.

Craig
1993 U225 36' Unihome GV with PACBRAKE exhaust retarder, Banks Stinger and Solar Panels.
Toad: 1999 Jeep Wrangler 2-door soft-top.

"No one has ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke."

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #187
Craig,
You bet, I love to put the peddle to it and zooom up em hills, heck with fuel mileage, on my last venture to the Black Hills, SD and back, about 3,800 miles round trip, that is towing the F150 with the Can AM 800 two seat ATV, my VMSpc claims I got 8.2 going out via the no mountains route, however returning I came back thru WV and the mountains, very pleased with the power on the mountains, but the VMSpc showed the error in my ways.  By the time I got home it was showing 7.9 mpg, that means I enjoyed the charging up the mountains a little too much.  ;D
Dave M

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #188
towing the F150 with the Can AM 800 two seat ATV, my VMSpc claims I got 8.2 going out via the no mountains route  By the time I got home it was showing 7.9 mpg,
Dave M

                      Man, towing a 3800 lb Honda crv and empty tanks I can't seem to break 7.1 mpg average. VMSpc shows 6.1 lifetime average. Maybe the ISM is better on fuel than the ISL?

          Dean
Dean & Deirdre

2012 Arctic Fox 22GQ
Was 2003 U270

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #189
Dean, 
My guess would be that you are doing alot of mountain driving, also I have zero experience with the ISL Highway engine, but at a QSL industrial, it does real fine.
I know from experience that you burn alot more fuel climging a mtn than saving going down. Like my last venture, I avoided WV west bound due to the mtns.  I went north to the Pa Turnpike, west to I-70, Columbus, Indy, then NW thru Peoria to I-80 etc, no mountains that way.
Point is, If you ever headed south on I-95 to Fl, you would be amazed at the good mileage, assuming you ran 65-70 mph. ;D
Dave M

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #190
Dean, 
 If you ever headed south on I-95 to Fl, you would be amazed at the good mileage, assuming you ran 65-70 mph. ;D
Dave M
          Dave you may be right about the mountain driving but we we did a fair amount of "flatland" travel last March/April from Nac to Fl. etc. and it was a bit better of course but not as good as I would have thought. I usually TRY to run at 62-65 mph hwy and feather the throttle etc. so we will see what it does in the future.

                  Dean
Dean & Deirdre

2012 Arctic Fox 22GQ
Was 2003 U270

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #191
We get about 6.9-7.4 mpg with 36' U295 towing a 4080# Jeep. We start travel with full fuel, fresh water, and propane tanks. We generally drive 65 mph with cruise control and don't encounter mountains on most trips. The big factor that affects our fuel mileage is the wind. Our engine is mechanical, so we don't have VmsPC or other fancy readouts. Engine is C8.3-325 with Banks Stinger.

I make no corrections for fuel consumed by the generator. We have had a couple of tanks calculate to 5.x mpg because we ran the generator a lot while parked in very hot weather.

We have not replaced the muffler with a resonator (yet). I expect such a change would improve performance and heat management a bit. I would expect a marginal improvement in fuel mileage. If I want to save on fuel, I stay home. ;)
J D Stevens
1997 U295 CAI 36' Build #5085
2002 Subaru Outback
Motorcade 16869
Bellville, TX

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #192
It is not only the fuel milage gain but the way it handles heat rejection. The engine runs cooler up the big hills.  I get about .8 mpg better on average not really changing my driving style. If I work it and drive the flat lands a bit more it is 1 mpg better. I was getting about 6.8 and now I am 7.6 to 7.8 on the same trips.  It does make a difference over a long trip though. I just finished a 7K mile trip so that plus the last trip I took of the same length paid for the entire upgrade.
2025 Wanderbox Outpost 32 on F600 Expedition Motorhome
2015 Born Free Royal Splendor on Ford 550 nonslide version  for sale
Former Coaches  covering. 360,000 miles
1999 34 U270
2000 36 U320
2001 42' double slide U320
2018 Jeep Rubicon

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #193
quote of JD  "We have not replaced the muffler with a resonator (yet). I expect such a change would improve performance and heat management a bit. I would expect a marginal improvement in fuel mileage."

 Big change in heat management and better climbing, better fuel economy, and pick up. I would encourage you to add the banks Stinger if you do remove muffler then your feelings will change, believe me. My 350 is a different engine now.
John H
Coachless, now use aircraft. 2003 Ford Travelair TC280 class C. Super shape. Just for 1 yr .
1994 Ford E350 ClassC,total renovation inside and out. Now sold.
2000 U295  36' Cummins 350 c/w Banks Stinger, Resonator upgrade,Solar, LED lites.Residential fridge with slide out pantry. Build 5674. Sold
ex 92 GV 022C ored Cummins. Sold
ex 95 GV240 cat 3116. Sold
2017 Mini cooper s & 2016 land Rover LR2 HSE  LUX.
jhaygarth@aol.com    SKP #130098
treat everyone as you would like to be.

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #194
Another small point, I find using the cruise control does burn more fuel than using my foot on throttle.  Keep eye on the VMSpc, the HP and Torque numbers are up & down on a level road on cruise, while on the foot, it holds much more steady numbers.
No exact provable numbers, but my guess is my foot control is worth .3 to .5 mpg gain over the crusie control on the average.

Find the same trend on my F350 4X4 diesel service vehicle, foot vs cruise, foot wins everytime.
Dave M

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #195
Another small point, I find using the cruise control does burn more fuel than using my foot on throttle. 
Dave M
                              Dave I have found the same thing with the Foretravel AND my previous coach's especially on hilly terrain as the cruise cannot detect up coming upgrades and downslopes. I seldom use it anywhere except fairly flat going.

              Dean
Dean & Deirdre

2012 Arctic Fox 22GQ
Was 2003 U270

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #196
Dave, can we assume that the "Foot" wins everytime as you have the foot pushed to the floorboard? :) 

Tom & Bill

2013 Jeep Grand Cherokee

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #197
Oh yeah, some times I use full throttle, but with the ISM500 setup, that is not needed very often unless I just want to feel good. Otherwise I just modulate the throttle keeping the hp and torque numbers as steady as I can, I usually allow it to slow down on minor grades and let it speed up when go over the top. This gives real good mileage, the drawback, this is very boring and not a feel good, but it does give you some very big numbers on the VMSpc display.  I can easy get over 10 mpg at 60ish but as said, very boring and not a  bit of fun. So down goes the throttle, back to the mid 8's and some happiness.
With the good preformance of this coach, 500 hp, resonator, 30K lbs, I play with lots of wannabee RV, truck and some cars when it comes to going up mtns.
At my age, nothing beats a strong running coach, Whoopee  ;D
Dave M

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #198
I can get well over 8 if I run at 55 mph but it drops to 7.4 to 7.9 at 65-70 mph.... The mountains drop me down about .5 mpg.  The resonator was the best fuel milage increasing modification I have made. I have paid for it already in less than a year on better milage. I run the same trip to Spokane Washington three to four times a year. Same roads and same time of year.  The Silverleaf shows the milage and I compared the fill ups and the total number of gallons.  It works out to  to an over 43 gallon difference round trip.  THat is actual fill up gallons and the summer trip had the generator on the whole trip out and back except for 3 hours while the spring and fall trips have not much genset use, I still saved over 43 gallons on the trip in the summer and a bit more in the spring trip.  I will let you know how the fall trip works. The total miles is about 7000.
2025 Wanderbox Outpost 32 on F600 Expedition Motorhome
2015 Born Free Royal Splendor on Ford 550 nonslide version  for sale
Former Coaches  covering. 360,000 miles
1999 34 U270
2000 36 U320
2001 42' double slide U320
2018 Jeep Rubicon

Re: Resonator and muffler replacement

Reply #199
Time is running out for my opportunity to do a resonator upgrade this year. I am aware that many have made the change but have transmission retarders and I think I have read all the posts regarding the "slight" increase in noise.  One concern that has held me back is the anticipated noise increase. I have a CAT 3176b engine with a Jake brake. When I see the signs restricting engine brake use I never worry about the noise and use the Jake because it is so quiet with the big muffler. With the resonator (AT5050XL)do you think I would still be able to use the Jake brake in the posted noise sensitive areas without exposing myself to a violation? So the bottom line is, in their Foretravel has anyone with one of the large engines (CAT or Cummins) with a Jake brake changed out the muffler for the Aero resonator, and can you tell me what kind of noise increase there is? Does it affect/restrict your usage of the Jake brake in the posted areas?
Thank you,
Rick
Rick