Biting the bullet (hard), I finally have my dream Coach - a 1995 U300 SE

Topic: Biting the bullet (hard), I finally have my dream Coach - a 1995 U300 SE (Read 5665 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Biting the bullet (hard), I finally have my dream Coach - a 1995 U300 SE

Reply #50 – November 06, 2012, 01:53:42 pm

Michael,

Below are a couple of links that may be of particular interest regarding safety and general information. It has been interesting to follow the start of your FT adventure.

Working safely around your Foretravel: http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=10632.0
Foretravel Discussions http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?board=6.0

Re: Biting the bullet (hard), I finally have my dream Coach - a 1995 U300 SE

Reply #51 – November 06, 2012, 11:53:34 pm

Well, 21 "Benjamin's" lighter in the billfold today, I went with all 5 as AGM batteries ($1835.00) and bought new filters for the Gen-set and the CAT at Napa Auto Parts. Oh, by the way -- isn't it ironic when you have to convince the parts counter guy that there is still a use for the old paper catalogs; that just because the part numbers don't cross-reference on the computer does not mean they don't have the right part in the store. He grudgingly pulled out the catalog, and lo and behold -- CAT and Power Tech filters were on the shelf!

So -- now I've only to find a creative way to get as much of the nasty 'ol fuel, sediment, goo --- out of the tank as possible, bleed the lines clean after adding 30 gallons of fresh -- and assuming the power-up with new electrons goes well -- I'll be ready to turn it over in about a week and make combustion!

All the best,
Michael

Re: Biting the bullet (hard), I finally have my dream Coach - a 1995 U300 SE

Reply #52 – November 07, 2012, 12:05:34 am

Michael, I believe you made the right call! It actually sounds like you got decent prices on the batteries. What brand did you settle on? Looking forward to your progress reports... and more pictures please!
Don

Quote from: geomm – November 06, 2012, 11:53:34 pm

Well, 21 "Benjamin's" lighter in the billfold today, I went with all 5 as AGM batteries ($1835.00) and bought new filters for the Gen-set and the CAT at Napa Auto Parts. Oh, by the way -- isn't it ironic when you have to convince the parts counter guy that there is still a use for the old paper catalogs; that just because the part numbers don't cross-reference on the computer does not mean they don't have the right part in the store. He grudgingly pulled out the catalog, and lo and behold -- CAT and Power Tech filters were on the shelf!

So -- now I've only to find a creative way to get as much of the nasty 'ol fuel, sediment, goo --- out of the tank as possible, bleed the lines clean after adding 30 gallons of fresh -- and assuming the power-up with new electrons goes well -- I'll be ready to turn it over in about a week and make combustion!

All the best,
Michael

Re: Biting the bullet (hard), I finally have my dream Coach - a 1995 U300 SE

Reply #53 – November 07, 2012, 12:25:23 am

Michael,

Diesel doesn't deteriorate like gasoline. If it doesn't smell bad, I'd just use a hand pump to draw a sample from the bottom. If it comes up clean, I wouldn't worry about dumping it.

Re: Biting the bullet (hard), I finally have my dream Coach - a 1995 U300 SE

Reply #54 – November 07, 2012, 01:00:54 am

hmmmm..

Well - it did not have any unusual/off/objectionable odor at all. I have a Mitivac vacuum pump. I'll fit a long, clear plastic tube to it and pull a sample from the bottom.

Thanks for the tip.

Re: Biting the bullet (hard), I finally have my dream Coach - a 1995 U300 SE

Reply #55 – November 07, 2012, 08:55:27 am

If you decide to keep the fuel, you may want to add some cetane boost to the fuel as a conditioner. It's available at most TSC's or other farm/tractor stores. I don't know technically how this works, but I use it once in a while and the MPG improves some. But I would not use it regularly without more knowledge. Perhaps one of the "fuelies" will chime in.

Re: Biting the bullet (hard), I finally have my dream Coach - a 1995 U300 SE

Reply #56 – November 07, 2012, 11:06:55 am

I feel I have to step in here and clear some things. Diesel fuel has a strong smell and will always smell like diesel. After long term storage, the bottom of the tank will usually have water as a result of condensation but just above that level, the diesel fuel will look and smell just like the top. The real problem is the unknown and visually undetectable amount of algae . A bacteria that rapidly grows in the fuel the longer it sits.

I would suggest Michael contact some smaller construction companies that run heavy equipment and ask to speak to their "oilier"or shop manager. He should explain his problem and then offer the company FREE diesel fuel . The oilier will have a truck that can come to him and is equipped to draw the fuel out. Those older big Cat dozers and scrapers will gobble that old RV fuel in minutes and it will be properly disposed of and everybody wins. All Michael has to do is get all the electric on the coach up and running, build up air with an outside source (like I have already told him how to), and then manually tilt the coach passenger side down before for the truck arrives. Also some oiller trucks carry road diesel that Michael could buy to refill the clean tank.

I have put several coaches back on the road after long term storage in this manner, and none ever had fuel problems.I have also seen several coaches where the fuel was "diluted"with a fill up of clean fuel and most (not all) , had multiple fuel filter changes over several thousand miles before the old fuel was gone. He can put an additive in the tank to kill the algae. but it will always be there clogging the filters.

I hope this info helps. Michael, , call me if your interested in this idea. I might know some construction people in Ventura county that can help.

Re: Biting the bullet (hard), I finally have my dream Coach - a 1995 U300 SE

Reply #57 – November 07, 2012, 11:38:53 am

Micheal, I too would like to know the brand, info etc on those 5 AGM's as it looks like a very good price. I paid 1800 for my 3 8d house alone and that was over a year ago. The 2 AGM start I got at FOT were about 600+ ( I paid too much but needed them at the time.) So I reckon you did well depending on the make etc.
John H

Re: Old fuel and new batteries

Reply #58 – November 08, 2012, 12:04:24 am

Gary,

Thanks again - for that advice. I'll start poking around in the Thousand Oaks area -- for such an opportunity as soon as I determine how much fuel is actually in the tank.

To answer those of you about the batteries, I chose a store in Thousand Oaks called Batteries Plus. They evidently have stores nationally to honor any warranty issues. The old chassis set were MK's, and I took the measurements off of them before going to the store. What matched up as far as size was a Group 24F, but I wanted higher output than the standard type in that size -- of at least 800 CCA in a AGM, so I bought a set of three Xtreme Permaseal's- with their item # SL124FAGMDP. The specs are 840 CCA, Flat Plate AGM, 160 minutes of reserve capacity, color is blue top -- and they have a 5 year full-replacement warranty. Buying all of my batteries from the guy, gave me a 10% discount. So the discounted price on these was $225 ea.

The 8D AGM's are a Ray Pro AGM with a 12 month full-replacement warranty, and those with the discount were priced at $524.70 ea.

So -- after CA tax -- $1835.00. Plus he is delivering them all to where I have the Coach -- and is taking away my old batteries.

Re: AGM chassis Batteries

Reply #59 – November 08, 2012, 12:13:12 am

Here is a link to what I purchased . The only exception is that mine are a group 24F, not a 24.

http://www.batteriesplus.com/product/46441-SLI24AGMDPM-Battery/100245-1/106974-X2-Power-Batteries/106976-Marine_RV/AGM.aspx

Re: Biting the bullet (hard), I finally have my dream Coach - a 1995 U300 SE

Reply #60 – November 08, 2012, 11:36:13 am

Gary,

I don't understand how algae can be visibly undetectable. When I've experienced algae problems severe enough to plug a fuel filter the algae was clearly visible in the tank. Likewise, if water is present, it is a separate layer below to fuel. I stand by by suggestion of pulling a sample from the bottom. Let is settle, then look at it.

Re: Biting the bullet (hard), I finally have my dream Coach - a 1995 U300 SE

Reply #61 – November 08, 2012, 01:02:40 pm

Brett,

Some, experienced owners can detect and solve problems on the road. Michael has mechanical knowledge but as a first timer and as we all know , his maiden voyage will not be totally trouble free. Hopefully, when that time comes, the advice and help he gets from the forum, will make that and future trips enjoyable with a minimum list of write ups.

A sample pulled from a dormant, stationary tank, flat bottomed tank will not be the same as a sample pulled from the same tank that has been in motion. Eliminating potential (and likely) problems at this time will save him dollars and headaches on the side of the road.

He should NOT rub the buffalo's butt on this potential time bomb. Just get rid of the damn stuff and move on.

Gary O

Re: Biting the bullet (hard), I finally have my dream Coach - a 1995 U300 SE

Reply #62 – November 08, 2012, 01:15:50 pm

Gary, I echo your sentiments on getting rid of the fuel hopefully taking any chances away of problems while on the road. It amazes me that some people will spend thousands on cosmetic items that do nothing but increase the looks and comfort in a coach but will bawk at spending a few hundred dollars on something that MAY save them untold frustration and possibly a large invoice stuck in some out of the way place one day. It costs us in Canada a lot more to replace the fuel but I would not even consider trying to use it (old Diesel).
FWIW
John H

Re: Biting the bullet (hard), I finally have my dream Coach - a 1995 U300 SE

Reply #63 – November 08, 2012, 06:43:47 pm

Well guys and gals -- here is the latest. While I wait the week for my batteries to be delivered, I first checked the fuel level with a stick, and I have a half a tank. So -- I'm guessing in the range of 65-70 gallons.

Then -- I used my MityVac pump with a long plastic tube, and a tie-rap attached to the tube along its long axis to make the tube more rigid. I then inserted this into the tank inlet until it stopped at the bottom of the tank. I pulled enough fuel to slowly fill the bottle.

A pic is attached that was taken after 15 minutes of settling. There was no "goo" or sediment of a contrasting color.

Oh, Gary -- no...there is no access plug on the fiberglass under-belly to get to a tank drain, so I'm assuming there is not any accessible drain.

Re: Biting the bullet (hard), I finally have my dream Coach - a 1995 U300 SE

Reply #64 – November 08, 2012, 07:02:49 pm

I'm still fairly certain I'm going to have it pumped out, but I may first bleed the Gen-set feed line until it is absolutely clear diesel running into a catch can -- as Gary described, after having already changed the oil and fitting the new filters I bought for it. And then -- when the batteries are in -- fire up the Gen-set.

Or-- maybe bleed it, and try and start it on the fuel filter already in place.

Whattya think? -- If the Generator runs smooth on this fuel for a few hours , maybe I just add another 20-30 gallons of fresh diesel and some fuel conditioner and call it good?

I kinda expected to see other junk floating or stratifying into a layer in that sample.

I won't be taking this on a maiden voyage for some time anyway (where I could possibly develop a fuel-related breakdown).

With best regards,

Michael

Re: Biting the bullet (hard), I finally have my dream Coach - a 1995 U300 SE

Reply #65 – November 08, 2012, 07:40:20 pm

Good plan. Gen set runs, Cat will be happy.

Re: Biting the bullet (hard), I finally have my dream Coach - a 1995 U300 SE

Reply #66 – November 11, 2012, 11:03:35 am

I also have a fuel problem. However, my fuel sample is dark black/green with black soft specks in it. You cannot see the bottom of the white bucket with one inch of fuel. Is this what algae looks like?

Re: Biting the bullet (hard), I finally have my dream Coach - a 1995 U300 SE

Reply #67 – November 11, 2012, 11:17:31 am

Wesley,

In a word, YES.

If you are near a marine area, look up "Fuel polishing". They come to your vehicle (or more commonly boat) and put a suction line into the bottom of the tank. They have high capacity pump and several fuel filters. The fuel goes through their filters and returns to the tank.

Of course, if contamination is bad enough, it may be better to have the fuel removed and disposed of.

In any case, add a biocide (common item at marine stores).

Brett

Re: Biting the bullet (hard), I finally have my dream Coach - a 1995 U300 SE

Reply #68 – November 11, 2012, 01:06:40 pm

To my knowledge #2 diesel fuel has a seven (7) year shelf life as long as it is in a sealed fuel tank and humidity can not enter the storage vessel. (That means stored with a cap in place) This was prior to content changes, (Ultra Low sulfur). Other blends of Diesel range from 12 months to two years... $:-\$

Re: Biting the bullet (hard), new information

Reply #69 – November 14, 2012, 06:36:19 pm

Well, folks -- I called Foretravel today and gave them my build number. Now --- this does not make me love my new-to-me Coach any less, but it is not one of the rare ones fitted with the hydraulic retarder, after all. Despite the fact that it has the sticker up front next to the factory I.D. plate indicating it was so equipped, it is a Jake Brake Coach. There is no "R" on the end of the Allison stamped metal plate model number (even though I also found out from another source that Allison is notorious for those plates being wrong), but more indicative is that I couldn't see the large casting with the vane torque-convertor absorber on the tail of the Allison that is supposed to be there. So I was suspicious.

It might have been a simple human error, as the next Coach in the build sequence (4613) was fitted with the Allison retarder. A guy must have mixed up the two on the production floor and slapped the sticker on mine by mistake.

I also learned a valuable lesson about inspection of wiring last weekend (Do it twice). I had posted here that I removed the metal covers in the basement bays to inspect the wiring for any rodent damage as I was recommended to do. Whereas there was a lot of droppings in the tray floors, I did not see any chewed/damaged wiring -- despite moving the different looms away from each other and inspecting. This past Sunday I was on my back with a wet vac hose and cleaning out the droppings and disinfecting the area's -- and I decided to re-inspect. Glad I did before the new batteries all show up and I plan to put electricity into the Coach for the first time this Sunday.

I found one wiring loom that is different from all of the others. They are all in a ribbed hard plastic cable wrap. This harness was coiled up (vs. the others that were straight from front to the back) and sitting on top of all of the others, and it was wrapped in a fabric-like flexible jacketing. And indeed -- the mice did get through the jacket and chewed 4 or 5 of the wires apart. But it's an easy fix as it is only in a 4-6" long area, and I'll just go buy the right color wire to keep the coding correct and use crimp connectors to repair it.

Now wouldn't that be something if this helps clear up the mystery of why the Coach was abandoned in that RV Park (that was changing ownership) to begin with. What if those wires prevented it from starting ? (like they led to the CAT ECU -- from the main cockpit ignition switch, for instance), and the son of the original owner just was done with the whole deal on a complex machine he inherited, anyway. I'll take pics and post them of the affected harness this weekend. Maybe I can also look for that color code and location on the wiring diagrams I have to confirm this idea I'm thinking.

A 2 oz. mouse takes down a 15 ton Coach?. hmmmm.....

Anyway --- I continue to be more impressed as I poke around deeper each visit with the build quality of this machine. I'm loving it.

If all goes according to plan, this weekend it is fitting all new batteries, basic check-out of electrical systems, bleeding the Gen-set fuel feed and firing up the Powertech.

All the best,

Michael McLaughlin

Re: Biting the bullet (hard), new information

Reply #70 – November 14, 2012, 07:49:14 pm

You will find the jake works great also. I have one of the rare M11 coaches with a jake. It does just fine.
Never having owned a coach with a trans retarder, I've got nothing to miss!

Re: Biting the bullet (hard), I finally have my dream Coach - a 1995 U300 SE

Reply #71 – November 14, 2012, 09:59:37 pm

I too think my Jake is more than adequate and it never overheats on a long down hill. If its good enough for a semi truck it should be good enough for a motorhome. I personally think using the service brakes more often is positive for overall safety.

Re: Biting the bullet (hard), I finally have my dream Coach - a 1995 U300 SE

Reply #72 – November 14, 2012, 10:44:28 pm

You will be very happy with the Jake brake. How many stage it it?

Re: Biting the bullet (hard), new information

Reply #73 – November 14, 2012, 11:12:04 pm

soldering those joints might be better in the long run than crimp connectors, and I am fond of shrink tubing as well for that finished look -available at radio shack

Re: Biting the bullet (hard), I finally have my dream Coach - a 1995 U300 SE

Reply #74 – November 14, 2012, 11:54:23 pm

Good points, Tim

I have to pull out the soldering iron anyway to repair one of the tank pick-up wires. And -- shrink wrap is still good insurance.

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