Hydraulic pump on last leg

Topic: Hydraulic pump on last leg (Read 4143 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #50 – April 10, 2013, 09:58:32 am

@Pierce Getting the specs right is my major concern. I'll interested to hear what Foretravel has to say. Obsolete parts is definitely one of the concerns of owning an older rig!

@Jerry I checked with the 2 shops in Dothan. Southern Service & B&B. Southern said I'd have to bring the pump in and they could tell me if they could rebuild it. B&B didn't even want to touch it. Gary Bouland just called me from his hydraulic guys shop. He says Granger should have a replacement. He put me on to Motion Industries here in Dothan.

@Gary Thanks for the call you lifted my sprits this morning! Tell Jane we say Hi! and the mutts.

I have to move about 3 miles to another campground this morning. There is a country western event this whole weekend and the park here is sold out.

Once I get settled in at the new park I'll pull the pump and head over to Motion Ind. and see what they say. If they can't do anything for me I'll check back with Southern Service. Also waiting to hear back from Billy Jack.

see ya
ken

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #51 – April 10, 2013, 10:26:26 am

I always like to make my friends feel better in a bad situation. Today is Propane day here at Stagecoach. $1.99 per gallon.

I told you not to leave.

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #52 – April 10, 2013, 10:34:57 am

Ack! I didn't even think to check there. It's always more expensive at the campground!

Thanks for cheering me up Kent...

see ya
ken

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #53 – April 10, 2013, 01:04:58 pm

Here is a site where you select the type of hydraulic pump/motor and then plug in the values (once you know them). It then shows the model number that meets your criteria.

Shop for hydraulic pumps at Zoro Tools Industrial Supplies

I see several match up to 1800xxx but none so far exactly to 1800118.

Pierce

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #54 – April 10, 2013, 01:42:27 pm

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – April 10, 2013, 12:37:50 am

I can't say how accurate this quote is but it would seem that as our coaches age, there may be a shortage of some critical parts that could leave us stranded for several days.

Pierce

Pierce, after reading your quote, I had to read it again to be sure that it hadn't come from me! I had almost the same experience just last November except for the last grinding for final clearance. The welding, replacing the 90 degree fittings with straight ones, etc. was what I had to do. So far it is working.

However, Ken's issue is with the hydraulic pump and not the hyd. fan motor, which is where the hassle came in.

Two years ago when my hydraulic pump began leaking, I checked with FOT and they wanted somewhere around $900-1,000 for the replacement. My local diesel mechanic checked with his pump supplier down in Houston and they found a new replacement for less than $500. It is still doing fine. (Knock on wood!)

So it appears that solutions to this pump issue are truly regional. Frustrating.

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #55 – April 10, 2013, 02:26:30 pm

Ken,
If you can't find a near drop-in replacement, maybe the Speedi-sleeve solution that was brought up earlier in this post should be considered ?

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #56 – April 10, 2013, 04:55:06 pm

@Pierce Thanks for continuing to search. I've been hitting google pretty hard myself!

@Don Do you remember if your pump was a 4 hose pump or 2 hose. Do you have 1 large radiator fan or the 2 smallers ones?

@John The Speedi-sleeve is still on my list of options. I need to do some research on hydraulic pumps. The guy I talked to at B & B in Dothan was telling me that lots of things can go wrong internally like a hairline crack that's not visible, etc, etc. I not smart enough to know if he was BS'ing me or not.

I'm leaning towards a new pump if I can find one. This one lasted 21 years and I don't want to have to pull it again for at least that long! I haven't heard back from Billy Jack yet. I'm off to rattle his cage.

Again thanks for all the help. The collective mind is a great thing! I pretty sure I owe everybody on this thread an adult beverage or 2.

On to todays status. Moved over to another campground. A-Okay campground in Dothan. I drove by the place and it's was just a field with some pedestals in it. Lots of other trailers, 5er's & motorhomes that looked like they had been there a long time. Dori is pretty picky on campgrounds like that so was about to drive off when I see a guy leaning a shovel waving me back. I turned around and drove up to him. He just asked what'ca need. I explained my situation and he said he had room. I could tell right away he was a very laid back and wasn't put off at all that I'd be working on my coach there. Made the decision to take him up on the offer. $30 a night was less than I was paying at the other campground.

This morning we pull in and I talked to Larry the owner again and explained I would be there probably through the weekend. He says in that case I'll give you the weekly rate $85 and if you need to stay longer each additional day will be at the weekly rate. We pulled into our spot and got settled in. Turns out Larry's house was right behind us. He and his wife came over talked to Mrs D and I for 20 or 30 minutes. They are really nice people! Larry made all kinds of offers to help if he could and did come up with a giant crescent wrench for me to borrow.

Spent all day cleaning up and prep'ing for pulling the pump. There was a thin coat of oil on everything! I'll be pulling the pump out tomorrow morning and running it around everywhere I can looking for a replacement.

Kent Speer suggested I not overlook the easy stuff. Could be a leaky hydraulic hose or adaptor or anything. Sage advice even coming from Kent.

Don't overlook the easy stuff. I'm still pretty sure it's the seal since I can see weeping by the shaft. More news to follow as it becomes available.

see ya
ken

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #57 – April 10, 2013, 06:31:11 pm

The shaft seal for a hyd pump is located in the suction section of the pump housing. The fluid pressure on the seal should be higher when the pump is off then when it is running. Most of the lip type oil seals will only hold 3-4 psi of pressure when good.There are a lot of different reasons why a seal will leak. Bad bearings,poor finish on the shaft, material adhered to the shaft in the area of the seal,bad seal {will tend to leak when pump is down -will suck air with pump running],wear- damage inside of pump ,high backpressure on hyd system.Had one pump that leaked fluid when the filters where plugged up.When is the seal now leaking?A good hyd pump shop should be able to inspect and rebuild repair most anything.It's comes down to what costs more a complete overhaul or a new pump.Gam

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #58 – April 10, 2013, 07:24:59 pm

Ken,

I just checked my hyd. pump: it's a 2 hose pump, which, as I look at your pics again is different: Yours being a 4 hose pump is a "ho(r)se of a different color".

Wish you luck in finding a reasonable ($) replacement.

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #59 – April 10, 2013, 07:55:04 pm

Ken,

I forgot to add that my coach has one large radiator fan, not two.

Don

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #60 – April 10, 2013, 08:57:59 pm

Ken, While discussing your hydraulic pump in a shop today it was suggested that if you could you should take the bracket with the pump to find a new one, that way if the mounting holes or positions of the inlets/outlets are different you would have a chance to modify the bracket to fit.
Good Luck
Gary B

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #61 – April 11, 2013, 08:10:55 pm

Got an email back from Billy Jack. He says they have a replacement pump.

Quote

We have the pump that replaces the one you have. It is a Saur Danfaus. Mike says it will bolt up. Bigger pump. Price is $889.50. Part# 80002642

I pulled the pump this morning. The seal had blown.
The selected media item is not currently available.

It appears to me that there was too much pressure behind the seal. It looks blown out. After seeing gam's remarks that there should only 3-4 psi behind the seal it lead me to question what's going on.

I pulled the pump out today and took it to Southern Service. Got to talk to the main guy there and he just flatly said he guaranteed the pump is "wore out". Said the gears and shafts are steel and housing is aluminum, guess which one wins.

He said that it creates extra internal pressure that blows the seal out. He says he's rebuild them plenty of times and won't brother again. Go back to the motorhome manufacture and get a replacement. Told him that would be $900. He showed me several pumps that weren't much bigger than mine that were several thousand dollars.

So I'm going with the Foretravel pump. Have a couple of questions into Billy Jack. Sent him pictures for mine along with shaft size, pump mounting diameter, and distance between mounting bolts. I'm hoping it truly is bolt on.

see ya
ken

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #62 – April 11, 2013, 08:26:35 pm

Hate to see that it can't be rebuilt. But with a new one, you may not ever have to undergo the ordeal that you have been put through with this. Someday you may look back and laugh at the whole thing (not likely).

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #63 – April 12, 2013, 10:37:57 am

The one I got from Foretravel is probably the same one you got. It was a direct bolt on and the hose connections only go on one way. I used the old shaft key because the new one was slightly too big for the pulley. In addition, be specific about how far onto the spline the pulley goes because mine was a smidgen too short which is causing a slight rubbing of the belt on the pulley side closest to the pump. Not a big deal but when I get home I will shim the pump to specs. Other than that, you will do ok and sleep a lot better at night. Teflon permatex!

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #64 – April 12, 2013, 11:20:21 am

@Twig was your pump a 4 hose pump or 2 hose? So far I'm the only coach I know of that uses the 4 hose. I'm sure there are others out there but it does look like there was a limited run with this design.

Added a picture of my pump.

see ya
ken

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #65 – April 12, 2013, 12:24:51 pm

Ken, The pump on my 95 U280 is a FOUR HOSE, otherwise known as dual stage or two stage.
Gary B

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #66 – April 12, 2013, 12:54:38 pm

Ken, is it just me , or is that seal installed backwards?
If the pressure is on the pump side, shouldn't the lip on the seal be towards the pressure?

Richard B.

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #67 – April 12, 2013, 12:58:59 pm

4 hose.

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #68 – April 12, 2013, 01:00:41 pm

Ken,

Here are a couple of shots of the hydraulic pump on our 1993 U300/36. It is a single stage, about half the size of yours and powers 2 fans + PS. I can't believe a pump like this would not run your single fan just fine. No reason for the complex design of the two stage. The second photo shows the hose connections in a true vertical/horizontal orientation.

If you can't read the numbers, the Barnes pump is a W9A116R3V01N.

In looking at your seal, it does appear it may have been installed backwards. Usually, the metal or rubber shoulder is on the outside so it can be tapped or pressed into place. I may be missing something in viewing the photo.

Fortunately, our pump and motors are dry. You owe me for a dirty shirt now.

Pierce

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #69 – April 12, 2013, 01:12:00 pm

Go on line -how to install oil seals in lip direction- good explanation on how to install seal. Also try and get a new seal by Chicago Rawhide .There are a lot of cheap seal from overseas that don't have the quality control of a Chicago Rawhide. Gam

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #70 – April 12, 2013, 01:21:44 pm

@Twig & @Gary Thanks for the info. Hope your pumps are holding up.

@rbark I'm not smart enough to know if it's in backwards or not. I plan to take the pump apart just to see how it works. I won't do that until after the new pump is in and working just in case.

@Pierce I thought about switching to a single stage. If Foretravel hadn't come up with a pump I would have maybe gone down that road. I pretty sure the PO disabled the 2 stage anyway. Mine only runs at high speed.

Pump should be here Tuesday if FT parts can get it out today. Fingers crossed!

see ya
ken

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #71 – April 12, 2013, 02:18:18 pm

If someone had time and the inclination, a couple of 1 1/2" tubes could be fed to the front end and a couple of custom radiators fitted behind the two removable panels down low on the nose (or up high behind the grills). The whole hydraulic system could then be removed and electric fans fitted front and back. The aluminum radiators are very inexpensive (see ebay) and come in a variety of sizes. The total cost would be less than just one hydraulic pump or motor. Lots of space going to waste up front.

The power steering could be powered by a conventional PS pump from the back or with an electric pump forward.

No, electric fans don't have the CFM capability to be able to replace the hydraulic motors without additional cooling capacity somewhere else.

A couple of members have already mounted radiators in the nose and used the heater hoses to feed them. Don't think the heater hoses would move enough hot coolant to allow removal of the rear hydraulic motors.

Pierce

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #72 – April 12, 2013, 03:40:26 pm

Didn't see picture .Seal was install backward, and did have a blowout.Shop can be correct about pump housings wear,and that's why I was talking about a complete inspection of the pump.When the pump was out why not do a This Old House and go from the ground up. To take the pump apart will only take a few minutes.High wear,groves, and to much clearance between the faces of the rotating member and housing in the area or the oil seal will cause leaks.But a hyd shop that installed a seal of this type backward and then didn't get down on there hands and knees to ask for forgiveness.Well maybe they thought they could sell you a new pump.Gam

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #73 – April 12, 2013, 08:18:18 pm

I will reiterate why I made my decision to replace the pump (same pump as ken's). Mike Grimes @ Foretravel: " That model pump is not worth rebuilding. We have seals here and I will sell you one but you will probably have to replace it again in 6 months. Or you can buy the new pump which fits exactly."

Nuff said for me. Down the road I go.

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #74 – April 13, 2013, 10:06:03 am

Quote from: kenhat – April 12, 2013, 01:21:44 pm

@Twig & @Gary Thanks for the info. Hope your pumps are holding up.

@rbark I'm not smart enough to know if it's in backwards or not. I plan to take the pump apart just to see how it works. I won't do that until after the new pump is in and working just in case.

@Pierce I thought about switching to a single stage. If Foretravel hadn't come up with a pump I would have maybe gone down that road. I pretty sure the PO disabled the 2 stage anyway. Mine only runs at high speed.

Pump should be here Tuesday if FT parts can get it out today. Fingers crossed!

see ya
ken

Ken,
Much of the hydraulic pump terminology can be confusing. A pump that has 2 independent pump housings and independent hydraulic input and outputs is generally referred to as a tandem pump. A tandem pump is 2 pumps mechanically coupled but hydraulically separate pump housings driven by 1 external shaft. There are triple and quad configurations also. I believe yours is a tandem pump with independent hydraulic inputs and outputs (2 individual input and 2 individual outputs). The seperate pump sections generally provide different flow rates and pressures.
A 2 stage pump is a pump with 2 interacting pumps (gear sets) with one hydraulic input and one hydraulic output port. The gear sets can be in separate pump sections (tandem) or 1 pump section with 2 different internal gear sets. The two stage pump has one hydraulic input and output port and is designed to provide different flow rates and pressures (at the one output port) in each stage depending on system demand.
Good luck,
Rick

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