Hydraulic pump on last leg

Topic: Hydraulic pump on last leg (Read 4142 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #75 – April 13, 2013, 11:12:16 am

@Rick Thanks for clearing up the terminology. It always helps to use the right words. Especially helps when you are doing google or ebay searches.

thanks
ken

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #76 – April 13, 2013, 11:29:23 am

I pulled the snapring today for a better look at the seal. To me it looks like the seal was installed the correct direction. The picture I posted previously may have not revealed enough of the seal to see that. The blow out was so violent that a large portion of the seal turned itself inside out!

Here are some more pics I took today. Let me know what you think.

see ya
ken

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #77 – April 13, 2013, 12:29:32 pm

What is the part number on the seal? Gam

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #78 – April 13, 2013, 12:52:00 pm

Good photos. Can now see part of the seal id numbers. That would indicate that the seal was installed in the correct direction. Have never seen a seal lip fold over like that. Seems if installed incorrectly, it would have leaked immediately and not down the road a few hundred miles. Not an expert but perhaps hydraulic shops have seen this before and maybe an overpressure forced it out like that. Hard to take a chance on it happening again with the same pump.

Piece

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #79 – April 13, 2013, 01:18:01 pm

Ken, it does look like the seal was installed the right way. Why the seal blew is a mystery,
other than over pressure, but that should not have happened. Is there a groove on the shaft where the lip of the seal rode? If so, that could be the cause of the seal blowing out.

Good luck, Richard B.

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #80 – April 13, 2013, 01:22:49 pm

Yes good pictures and it dose look that seal was installed correctly. It looks to me like you have one of two problems. The first is that small hose on the back side of the pump. That is your casing drain line . That line connects to a drilled passage that goes from one end to the other inside the pump casing. It's job is to prevent a pressure build up in the ends of the pump casing in the area of the shaft seal and bearings. If this hose is plugged or the flow through it is blocked where it returns into the system the shaft seal will leak,yes and even blow out because the seal could see full system pressure.Your hose should return to the top of the hyd filter housing on it's suction side.The other reason for the seal to leak and blow out is if there is so much internal wear in the pump casing that the casing drain line can't handle the flow of oil so a back pressure is created.Gama

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #81 – April 13, 2013, 06:40:54 pm

@gam My pump doesn't have a case drain. It's a tandem pump with 2 input hoses on the bottom and 2 output hoses on the top. My radiator motor (someone help me if that terminology is wrong) has a drain hose so I know what you are talking about. I tried to get the part number off the seal for you but I can't get an angle where I can read it with a magnifying glass. After I have the new pump in I'll pull the old pump apart and post the number.

I'm been rethinking all my actions and there is probably 50-50 chance I am my own daemon. I remember putting the pump on for the second time and after I had the hoses on checked the tags on the top hoses. I had labeled them TF (top front) and TR (top rear) after checking them I switched the 2 top hoses. Now the problem is I don't remember if I was thinking TF was top front of pump or front of coach. So I may have put the front on the back and the back on the front. I've looked at all my photographs before removal and don't have one that I can use to identify for sure which goes where. If I did indeed switch them to the wrong location that could have lead to a high pressure situation the blew out the seal.

So Twig & Gary I need your help. I've attached a picture showing the hose routing before I pulled the pump this last time. Can you look at it and see if your hydraulic hose lay out is the same? If so is the top hose closest to the rear of the coach (labeled A1 - A2 in photo) set up correctly or does the rear hose (labeled B in photo) the one that goes there? I'm afraid to hook up the new pump until I know for sure I have the proper routing for the hoses. Don't want to blow the seal on the new pump! I've sent the photo to Billy Jack and he forwarded it to Mark Harvey but I haven't heard anything from him yet.

see ya
ken

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #82 – April 13, 2013, 08:04:01 pm

Ken didn't you post pictures of the pump your working on ,on March 28 .That looked to be a single stage vane pump with a casing drain?? To mark things like two hoses off a pump I like to use two electrical ties. put one on one of the hoses and one on it's mating fitting.Gam

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #83 – April 13, 2013, 08:57:02 pm

@gam You're right I did post a picture of the radiator hydraulic motor which does have a case drain a while back. I did have the seal replaced in that one and luckily it has held. The pump that powers it is what I'm working on now and is what is featured in almost all of the pictures posted.

see ya
ken

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #84 – April 13, 2013, 09:04:08 pm

That's what happens when I don't take the time to read all the postings. After the first pictures I only saw ones of the end of the shaft and seal .I'm Bad. Joe

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #85 – April 13, 2013, 09:09:34 pm

@gam No problem. All help appreciated!

see ya
ken

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #86 – April 14, 2013, 11:28:44 am

Quote from: kenhat – April 13, 2013, 06:40:54 pm

@gam My pump doesn't have a case drain. It's a tandem pump with 2 input hoses on the bottom and 2 output hoses on the top. My radiator motor (someone help me if that terminology is wrong) has a drain hose so I know what you are talking about. I tried to get the part number off the seal for you but I can't get an angle where I can read it with a magnifying glass. After I have the new pump in I'll pull the old pump apart and post the number.

I'm been rethinking all my actions and there is probably 50-50 chance I am my own daemon. I remember putting the pump on for the second time and after I had the hoses on checked the tags on the top hoses. I had labeled them TF (top front) and TR (top rear) after checking them I switched the 2 top hoses. Now the problem is I don't remember if I was thinking TF was top front of pump or front of coach. So I may have put the front on the back and the back on the front. I've looked at all my photographs before removal and don't have one that I can use to identify for sure which goes where. If I did indeed switch them to the wrong location that could have lead to a high pressure situation the blew out the seal.

So Twig & Gary I need your help. I've attached a picture showing the hose routing before I pulled the pump this last time. Can you look at it and see if your hydraulic hose lay out is the same? If so is the top hose closest to the rear of the coach (labeled A1 - A2 in photo) set up correctly or does the rear hose (labeled B in photo) the one that goes there? I'm afraid to hook up the new pump until I know for sure I have the proper routing for the hoses. Don't want to blow the seal on the new pump! I've sent the photo to Billy Jack and he forwarded it to Mark Harvey but I haven't heard anything from him yet.

see ya
ken

Ken, It will be t'morrow before I can look at the pump and trace out the line routing. I will do so as soon as I can. In the meantime do you have the line routing in your diagrams in the owners manual ? If so that may help.
Gary B

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #87 – April 14, 2013, 11:56:26 am

My config may be different than yours as I have a Cummins. The 2 top hoses T off the bottom of the oil sump. With my pump, the connector sizes were different enough that I could not hook it up wrong.

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #88 – April 14, 2013, 12:42:28 pm

@Twig Thanks. Didn't think about you having the Cummins. Now that I think about it Gary has the Cummins to. Unfortunately the hoses out of the top of the pump are both 1". Wish I'd marked them a little more intelligently.

see ya
ken

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #89 – April 14, 2013, 12:58:49 pm

Ken, Your right mine is a Cummins. Here are pics of the pump looking up from the ground. Note pulley and belt to right of photo and rear of coach. Large hoses go from TOP of pump to a tee and then to control solenoid on street side frame rail.
Smaller hoses are blue and come from BOTTOM of pump and after going to tee and solenoid they go to right side and the two fans on the radiator.
Hope this helps.
Gary B

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #90 – April 17, 2013, 09:36:16 pm

New pump came in today. Took a couple of hours to get it in. Yes I did get a little dirty again!

I was a little worried I had reversed the connections on the output side of the pump previously. Turns out my suspicions where correct. I put on my CSI hat and started looking at the photos I took at the start of this thread. None of the photos gave a clear shot of the routing of the hoses but I did have one very clear shot of the top of the pump. I loaded it into Photoshop and zoomed in on the hoses and was able to identify one of the hoses by some markings on the connector. If it wasn't for those I'd still be worrying about what to connect where! I'm not sure if that caused the seal to blow again or not. Mark Harvey sent me a hydraulic pump schematic for a 94'. Looking at it I don't think reversing the hoses caused the seal to blow. I'd appreciate comments from others with more experience with hydraulics.

Here are some photos of the new pump and the install. Twig notice I did use the Permatex thread seal with PFTE.

The last picture is of my new favorite tools. Gorilla Grip from Home Depot $4.99. I've used mechanic gloves but they always were too padded to feel anything. These are cheap have great feel and are very durable. I've had the Shop Towels forever but always reached for a rag. Ran out of rags pretty quick on this project and these saved my butt! Didn't include in the picture but Goop hand cleaner rates way up there too! It works so well I'm pretty sure EPA will be banning it real soon! Oh yeah I got to use my new really big wrenches from Harbor Freight. $49.99 on sale!

The radiator fan is spinning and the pump is not leaking. The oil has been cleaned off the back of the rig and the toad. We are ready to hit the road tomorrow. Wish us luck! I need some.

see ya
ken

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #91 – April 17, 2013, 09:50:34 pm

Ken,
Here is wishing you the best of luck.

I'm sure this is the last of the leaks.

Great job....

Let us know if you head toward Fredericksburg.

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #92 – April 17, 2013, 10:01:37 pm

Good news! Sure it will do the trick plus U have some good wrenches now.

Another good thing to pick up is a Brother (or other brand) label machine. When I'm pulling hoses or electrical where the codes are not readable, I make a label for each hose and wrap it around. Especially good for battery cables where you have lots of connections.

Pierce

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #93 – April 17, 2013, 10:04:00 pm

@Brad Dori and I really want to do Fredricksburg and meet up with you again what did we have in Nac 15 minutes?

Unfortunately it's going to be a couple of years before we get there. Heading to Memphis, then KC, then Denver, then slowly to Seattle. Summer doesn't start until July 4 there! Winter on west coast then back to Seattle to do Alaska! That's our dream trip. Hope Big Agnes is up for it.

see ya
ken

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #94 – April 17, 2013, 10:10:27 pm

Ken,

Let us know when you are on the west coast and in our area.

Pierce

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #95 – April 17, 2013, 10:51:50 pm

@Pierce no problem. We would love to meet up with you. We were so close in Moab last fall!

see ya
ken

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #96 – April 18, 2013, 08:07:30 am

Ken, Glad you are back on the road. We will be in CO in August for a family reunion in Joes and then on to Denver area. If you are still around we will try to meet up.
Gary B

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #97 – April 18, 2013, 09:39:54 am

Quote from: kenhat – April 17, 2013, 09:36:16 pm

New pump came in today. .......Took a couple of hours to get it in. ......Wish us luck! I need some.

see ya
ken

Ken,
It's always easier the second time around. It would be good to get all the specs on that pump for future reference. I see the part number but that may be a Foretravel specific P/N and pump made for them. See page 23 to see the ordering details and what it entails.
http://www.turollaocg.com/stellent/groups/publications/documents/product_literature/l1022940.pdf
Karma for the pictures.
Good luck,
Rick

P.S. No need for thread sealant on those SAE O-ring Boss (ORB) fittings, they seal with the o-ring and locknut. Thread sealant/lube only req'd on tapered pipe threads.

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #98 – April 18, 2013, 11:40:54 am

Ken,

Good news to hear that your new pump is in and working and so far so good! How about a pic of the installed new pump to go with other ones to complete the set. All of us have learned a lot from your experience with old pumps and leaking seals. Makes one appreciate good mechanic work.

At least you saved big bucks on the labor by doing it yourself!

I hope you're rolling down the highway as a happy camper again!

Jerry

Re: Hydraulic pump on last leg

Reply #99 – April 18, 2013, 09:00:46 pm

Good news Ken and Dori, I have been watching your posts and praying for your success. Looks like they were answered. It was great meeting you two. Have a blessed trip and God willing we will see you down the road someday.

All the best, Mark and Tanya

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