Water Pump replace with what??

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Water Pump replace with what??

July 11, 2014, 08:19:41 am

I noticed my water pump did cut off but had a major hum after the faucet is turned off. Had to turn off to stop noise. Could not leave on. Different sound than heard before. Then it would work fine for a while. If it going out// :-[What would be the best replacement??? Tks

Re: Water Pump replace with what??

Reply #1 – July 11, 2014, 09:46:10 am

I needed to know what is a good replacement pump with easy install ?? tks DAN

Re: Water Pump replace with what??

Reply #2 – July 11, 2014, 10:19:05 am

@Dan Here is the water pump I just installed on recommendation from Barry & Cindy.

Shurflo 4048 Water Pump - Shurflo 4048-153-E75 - Fresh Water Pumps - Camping

All water pumps are an easy install. One hose in, one out and one positive wire, one negative. 10 minute change out. (depending on how buried in the bay the water pump is)

see ya
ken

Re: Water Pump replace with what??

Reply #3 – July 11, 2014, 10:46:27 am

Ken:
Did you eliminate the accumulator tank when you replaced the pump? If you did could you tell any difference? Seems to me it would be a good idea to keep it.

Thanks
Jason

Re: Water Pump replace with what??

Reply #4 – July 11, 2014, 10:59:20 am

I just ordered the Shurflo 4008-101-E65 with strainer, hoses and fittings from Amazon. I also use an accumulator that is a marine one and is larger than the FOE. Biggest problem for me is to cut out and replace a damaged PEX fitting. I may just cut out several and re-do the pump and accumulator installation. Since my pump is under the couch and I dont look under there very often, I am also installing a moisture/water detector that has sensitivity over the length of the cable and has an alarm function. (Hope it doesn't go off when someone is sleeping there!!) Have a great day ---- Fritz

Re: Water Pump replace with what??

Reply #5 – July 11, 2014, 12:01:44 pm

I replaced our FlowJet with an Aquajet 55 ARV;
http://www.freshwatersystems.com/p-1070-remco-aquajet-arv-5503-av15-b636-rv-pump-53-gpm-12vdc.aspx?utm_source=Googlebase&utm_medium=Feed&utm_campaign=Product&utm_term=5503-AV15-B636&gclid=CNTQ7PzOvb8CFQiDfgodFokAjQ
We have been happy with it so far...
Don

Re: Water Pump replace with what??

Reply #6 – July 11, 2014, 12:12:55 pm

Quote from: acousticart – July 11, 2014, 12:01:44 pm

I replaced our FlowJet with an Aquajet 55 ARV;
http://www.freshwatersystems.com/p-1070-remco-aquajet-arv-5503-av15-b636-rv-pump-53-gpm-12vdc.aspx?utm_source=Googlebase&utm_medium=Feed&utm_campaign=Product&utm_term=5503-AV15-B636&gclid=CNTQ7PzOvb8CFQiDfgodFokAjQ
We have been happy with it so far...
Don

Don,
Do you notice the cycling of the pump (and the resultant water surging) with a partially opened faucet with the variable speed in the Aquajet?

Re: Water Pump replace with what??

Reply #7 – July 11, 2014, 12:26:13 pm

I have a new in the box Shurflo Sensor 5.7, I carried it as a spare and did not use it. I know some folks have had problems with the 5.7 but I have had good service.
If someone can use this pump I will make them a real bargain. If I recall I paid about 195 for it, I will take 125 plus shipping.
Gary B

Re: Water Pump replace with what??

Reply #8 – July 11, 2014, 01:59:29 pm

@Jason I did remove the accumulator a little over a year ago. I'm about to reinstall a new accumulator. I'll post afterwards to let everyone know my preference.

see ya
ken

Re: Water Pump replace with what??

Reply #9 – July 11, 2014, 02:03:27 pm

Note to all users of the Shurflo 4008- keep an eye on the 8 screws that hold the pump diaphragm to the pump body.

After I installed my pump, they started wriggling loose and found a couple just lying on the bay floor. Screwed them back in numerous times over the last year but they wouldn't stay put. Finally ended up removing all of them and putting blue Loctite on them. Haven't had any problems since.

Re: Water Pump replace with what??

Reply #10 – July 11, 2014, 10:39:54 pm

I installed AquaJet ES as a replacement. I left the accumulator in place. I also added the "soft loop" hoses. I've been pleased with the performance.

Re: Water Pump replace with what??

Reply #11 – July 12, 2014, 01:03:58 am

I don't have an accumulator tank currently, but I plan to install one to keep the RO drinking water from cycling the pump as much. We don't seem to get any surging that can recall. Pretty much the pump runs slowly when you have just a little flow, and faster up to the max if you turn on multiple fixtures. You can really tell if you are running the sink at a moderate rate of flow and then someone flushes the toilet... As soon as the flush starts it sounds like the pump goes into turbo boost mode. The sink flow slackens a little at first when the toilet is flushed but then picks back up as the pump takes up the slack.
Don

Quote from: rsihnhold – July 11, 2014, 12:12:55 pm

Don,
Do you notice the cycling of the pump (and the resultant water surging) with a partially opened faucet with the variable speed in the Aquajet?

Re: Water Pump replace with what??

Reply #12 – July 17, 2014, 04:27:45 pm

We recently installed the Aquajet 55ARV. Easy install. Had noticed on low water demand that the water was pulsating. Contacted Remco Tech Support and asked. They stated that it is normal to see this pulsating on low water demand. I would prefer no pulsating but I guess it's normal for variable speed pumps. Don't recall this pulsating with the Sureflow we replaced. I suppose that we will get used to it.

Re: Water Pump replace with what??

Reply #13 – July 17, 2014, 05:55:44 pm

Got in today a Shurflo 4048-153-E75 4 GPM //10 amps// 55psi // 2 yr warranty.. Hope to install sometime this weekend. Hope this one is quiet. DAN

Re: Water Pump replace with what??

Reply #14 – July 17, 2014, 06:54:24 pm

I read that some recommend no accumulator with a variable speed pump. However, an accumulator will help greatly to dampen the pulsations. One thing that could done with variable speed pump is to fill the bladder in the accumulator close to the same pressure as the pump runs. So if pump runs at 40psi, fill bladder to 35-38 psi to allow for some damping effect.

Re: Water Pump replace with what??

Reply #15 – July 17, 2014, 09:07:51 pm

The u280 has a 2 gal accumulator tank, standard equipment.

Our 88GV had a small pvc tank added by the PO. We see no difference in performance other than it is less than half the size.

Re: Water Pump replace with what??

Reply #16 – July 18, 2014, 02:51:34 pm

Quote from: Dan J. Stansel – July 17, 2014, 05:55:44 pm

Got in today a Shurflo 4048-153-E75 4 GPM //10 amps// 55psi // 2 yr warranty.. Hope to install sometime this weekend. Hope this one is quiet. DAN

Hi Dan,
After many (5, I think) failures, ShurFlo did a warranty replacement of my ShurFlo 5.7 with a Shurflo 4048-153-E75. ShurFlo helped me and provided me with a sixth warranty replacement. I followed Barry Beam's guidance (I can relay my correspondence, if anyone needs it). I appreciate ShurFlo's accommodation of my numerous failures and my conclusions, as presented earlier on FoFums. They agreed, by the way, with my conclusions.
I've used the 4048 for about 9 months now and I'm pleased, with two exceptions:

I had taken the accumulator out for the 5.7 install, per ShurFlo's instructions. The 4048 must have an accumulator. WITHOUT an accumulator, for small faucet openings (to conserve water use), the pump cycles on and off, over and over again -- bothersome! It also cycles on its own occasionally because the internal relief valves weeps, intermittently. When it weeps, the pump bumps the pressure back up, running less than a second to do so. Then 5 minutes, or as much as 5 hours later, it bumps again. 5 hours I can forget. 5 minutes gets pretty irritating. I installed an outlet valve at the pump, so I'm pretty sure that it's the bypass valve weeping, because if it were the pump, the time frame would be more likely to be predictable and repeatable. An accumulator just allows the intermittent, tiny amount of weeping to occur over many hours and it thus becomes a non irritant.

The 4048 is noisier than the 5.7 because it is either fully on (bypassing some or most of its output back to the inlet, or it is fully off. The pump only runs at two speeds -- full on or full off -- whatever output isn't needed, the output is bypassed until the bypass flow isn't enough. Then output pressure rises above the bypass pressure (mechanical relief bypass valve) to a cutoff pressure set-point (electrical pressure switch) which then turns the pump off). The 5.7 was very quiet at low flows (or weeps) because it was barely turning over -- more like a hum or a low growl -- not full on/full off operation like the 4048.

So, if you don't have an accumulator installed or have one figured into your install, you're going to want one.
Better one install than two!
Neal

Re: Water Pump replace with what??

Reply #17 – July 18, 2014, 02:56:50 pm

Neal: I have no accumulator now. Did not plan to buy one. What does it do and what does it look like? Dan

Re: Water Pump replace with what??

Reply #18 – July 18, 2014, 03:05:38 pm

Dan,
It is just a small 1 to 2 gallon tank with an internal air bladder that you pre-pressurize, through a Schrader valve (think tire valve stem), to a few pounds less than your operating sytem pressure (maybe 32 to 34 psig). Thus the pump output pressurizes the water side and the tank partially fills with water, compressing the air side until the pump shuts off at the few pounds higher than the air side pre-load pressure. I'll find a link and add it to this reply. HD and Lowes and all RV supply outlets have them. Inexpensive,
Neal

The accumulator looks like the blue tank in this picture: (I'll keep looking)
RV High Volume Water Pump - 86-8342 - PPL Motor Homes
Here's the SHUREflo version at CW:
Shurflo Accumulator Tank - Shurflo 182-200 - Fresh Water Pumps - Camping World

Re: Water Pump replace with what??

Reply #19 – July 18, 2014, 04:14:31 pm

Neal: According to the specs on the 4048-153-175 no accumulator tank is necessary. Why do you feel it is necessary to have one? DAN

Re: Water Pump replace with what??

Reply #20 – July 18, 2014, 08:47:40 pm

We have had the Shurflo 4048 water pump for several years and have long ago removed our original malfunctioning big blue accumulator. We have a piezo sounder (quiet buzzer) in our kitchen that beeps whenever our water pump motor is turning, so we know when our 4048 does a quick power cycle for an internal leak-down. Our pump does not cycle very often, since we stopped small plumbing leaks. Years ago our old water pump made so much noise we always knew when it was running, and when we upgraded to a modern quieter pump, we missed the pump run sound, so we ran a pair of small wires from the pump pressure switch to our kitchen. Big benefit of the sounder is we know a faucet is not off or we have a plumbing leak.

We do not feel we need or want to give up the space for an accumulator. We also feel accumulators can be a breeding ground as all water may not cycle out.

We also participated in the Shurflo 5.7 variable speed pump problems. Shurflo always stood behind every 5.7 issue. We have also used the Shurflo 4008 which is a smaller capacity 4048. We found the 4008 served our needs just fine and we did not notice any water flow reduction from using the 4008.

Re: Water Pump replace with what??

Reply #21 – July 18, 2014, 11:39:03 pm

Quote from: Dan J. Stansel – July 18, 2014, 04:14:31 pm

Neal: According to the specs on the 4048-153-175 no accumulator tank is necessary. Why do you feel it is necessary to have one? DAN

Dan, I agree that one does not HAVE to use an accumulator. The pump will operate reliably without one. It is a matter of whether you want to listen to frequent starts and stops as the pump runs a second or so to replenish weepage that has caused the solid water system outlet pressure to decay. It just sets a nagging alarm off in my head, whenever any water or air mover short cycles. Something isn't right and if I don't understand it, the nag gets worse.

Maybe I'm unique here, because I have only had experience with a single 4048. After so many problems with and so much correspondence on the SUREflo 5.7, I'm not eager to raise another complaint with SUREflo on a new warranty 4048.

After installation of the 4048, without an accumulator installed, within a few hours my pump started short cycling for a second or so to raise pressure, at intermittent intervals. Sometimes the "off" interval would be less than 5 minutes. Other days it would be several hours between starts. So, to me, it meant that I had an inconsistent water leak somewhere, maybe aggravated by ambient thermal cycles or just the way water was used, or how the flow was terminated after using. But I had no visible water leak in the bays, none in the sinks or shower, ice-maker/washing machine/filter under sink/no sound or thermal swing at the water fill valve under the bathroom sink/tried various shutoff positions on the fill valve/etc -- nothing easily found. So, I had some isolation valves and I put one on the pump outlet. Then I closed the outlet valve and relieved all hot and cold water pressure (opened kitchen faucet) and once vented, left the faucet with a dry container below and the pump enabled. Over a couple of days, with the pump outlet isolated, no water in the container (so no leak through the outlet isolation valve), but the pump ran for a second or so many times and, if anything, more frequently and randomly than when the pump was lined up to the whole coach. So I concluded that it wasn't the fill valve, but rather it was either the pump or the internal relief that was weeping, and if I had a pressure maintenance tank, it would likely go days between pressure decays large enough to cause the pump to have to run to build pressure back.

I also don't like hearing the pump cycle on and off frequently and constantly whenever we are using a small amount or flow of water. I had a new pressure maintenance tank in NH (haven't installed it since getting back in May......too busy with house and grounds) so I've just lived with the short cycling pump since last December. Not bad but not FT ideal, either. I don't know how one would conclusively prove what is weeping; the pump's internals or the pump internal relief valve. The only other option is just plugging in a replacement. At $130(+) for the pump, installing the available accumulator tank is a friendlier option. Besides, I have heard of at least two other 4048 users with similar symptoms and a third that is experiencing frequent starts/stops with a low flow RO system.

Neal

Re: Water Pump replace with what??

Reply #22 – July 19, 2014, 12:16:57 am

I've found that an accumulator solved a problem I had with the pressure-temperature safety valve on my water heater. Safety valve would leak at various times. Replacement valve would do the same. Discovered it was pressure that builds up when the water is heated and there's no room for expansion. Accumulator tanks are now code for S&B homes for this reason.

Re: Water Pump replace with what??

Reply #23 – July 19, 2014, 09:04:59 am

I will look at the accumulator tank as if it works better with it//why not do it now and be done with it. DAN

Re: Water Pump replace with what??

Reply #24 – July 19, 2014, 10:34:08 am

Another solution for our hot water tank Temp-Pressure valve's (T&P) dribbling valve is we now leave our hot water switch on all the time to reduce the wide range of cooling and heating, which lowers the pressure expansion from cooler water to hot. Not only did our valve leak, it also put additional pressure on all of our cold & hot plumbing pipes.

We ran a hose from the T&P valve's threaded output down though the floor where the fresh water, hot & cold drains go through the floor. The new hose flows any dribbling to the ground.

Expansion tanks solve many plumbing issues. Once we took our original expansion tank out, we gained space that we don't want to give up. And when I saw the crud on the inside of our malfunctioning expansion tank, we decided to forgo any advantages and do without the tank.

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