Tire Balancing Method

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Tire Balancing Method

August 11, 2014, 07:42:29 pm

My motorhome needs new tires, and at the shop where I am getting some work done, the mechanic says most shops do not balance anymore. Other forums say not to use powder, but that ceramic beads are better because they don't clump. Others say powder ruins pressure monitoring system send units. What has been your experience?

Re: Tire Balancing Method

Reply #1 – August 11, 2014, 07:54:25 pm

Best-- balance then ON THE COACH. Yes, there are still some shops that do it-- almost a dying art.

BTW, best to start by checking run-out. If more than .035" out of round fix that first (or have the tire trued-- another almost lost art).

Another option is one of the permanent balancers such as Centramatic: http://centramatic.com/Home.aspx

Brett

Re: Tire Balancing Method

Reply #2 – August 11, 2014, 07:56:27 pm

I along with many others I know use Centramatic Balancers. Install them one time and forget it. Take them with you on the next coach, no problem.
Gary B

Re: Tire Balancing Method

Reply #3 – August 11, 2014, 08:10:34 pm

Thanks a bunch for answering. I watched the video...very dramatic, but...given that the imbalance is a function of mass, velocity & radius, I am not sure how the hub-sized ring can balance a very heavy tire when the balance ring is small relative to the tire.

Anyway, which method do YOU use? I've been reading numerous posts by you, and you seem to be about the most knowledgeable guy on the forums. So, your opinion carries a LOT of weight (with me).

Re: Tire Balancing Method

Reply #4 – August 11, 2014, 09:27:07 pm

Another thing to look for in balancing these big tires is how they are mounted. An old tire man and a FT owner showed me the trick.
First the tire has to be mounted with the SPLICE opposite the valve stem and the tire has to be mounted with plenty of lube and the little raised ring around the tire perimeter should be evenly spaced from the rim edge completely around the rim.
Also, Some more info about your coach, year, length, model etc and a name would help us all help you.
Gary B

Re: Tire Balancing Method

Reply #5 – August 11, 2014, 09:35:19 pm

Millions of truck owner operator miles taught me this. Have the tires trued.. (it's true its a lost art but worth the effort to find someone) Even new tires are not perfectly round. Then have them balanced on the coach. Again as stated above not common anymore but worth the effort.
I say this with all due respect, the centramatic balancers don't work as well as the above. I bought 10 of them and after six months (50K miles) I put them in the garage and went back old school..

Re: Tire Balancing Method

Reply #6 – August 12, 2014, 12:49:17 am

How is the tire balanced on the coach? Do they use a special machine or just spin it?

Re: Tire Balancing Method

Reply #7 – August 12, 2014, 12:54:54 am

Quote from: Gary Bouland – August 11, 2014, 09:27:07 pm

Another thing to look for in balancing these big tires is how they are mounted. An old tire man and a FT owner showed me the trick.
First the tire has to be mounted with the SPLICE opposite the valve stem and the tire has to be mounted with plenty of lube and the little raised ring around the tire perimeter should be evenly spaced from the rim edge completely around the rim.
Also, Some more info about your coach, year, length, model etc and a name would help us all help you.
Gary B

Do not think michelins have a carcass splice.

Re: Tire Balancing Method

Reply #8 – August 12, 2014, 08:14:59 am

Bob, All tires have a splice somewhere, it may be hard to see but the layers of material have to joined somewhere. Go by a tire shop and ask to look inside a tire I bet you will see it. The splice is the heaviest point of the tire, may not be much but its there.
Gary B

Re: Tire Balancing Method

Reply #9 – August 12, 2014, 10:22:46 am

Quote from: Gary Bouland – August 12, 2014, 08:14:59 am

Bob, All tires have a splice somewhere, it may be hard to see but the layers of material have to joined somewhere. Go by a tire shop and ask to look inside a tire I bet you will see it. The splice is the heaviest point of the tire, may not be much but its there.
Gary B

Look close at a michelin. I understand they do not have a splice. The steel inner casing is one piece woven.

Lots of tires do although. You could see the splice in the sidewalls of tires built that way long ago.

They had a "dimple". And the hard spot started to effect ride quality as the tread wore down.

Re: Tire Balancing Method

Reply #10 – August 12, 2014, 11:01:48 am

If y'all have nothing better to do here is the NHSTA bible on tires. mainly auto and light truck but informative anyway.
file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/PneumaticTire_HS-810-561.pdf

Gary B

Re: Tire Balancing Method

Reply #11 – August 12, 2014, 11:40:31 am

Quote from: Gary Bouland – August 12, 2014, 11:01:48 am

If y'all have nothing better to do here is the NHSTA bible on tires. mainly auto and light truck but informative anyway.
file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/PneumaticTire_HS-810-561.pdf

Gary B

Good info. No I did not read all 700 pages.

Only reason I mentioned the michelin construction is it used to be in their ads starting with their michelin x radials long ago.

Re: Tire Balancing Method

Reply #12 – August 13, 2014, 12:57:32 pm

ALL good truck tire shops balance tires, and in fact new balancing systems have a 'drag' feature to better simulate on road driving. We would never consider anything inside tire to balance for lots of reasons including marketing hype, clogging valve stems. We have balanced all 6 tires, but have also only balanced fronts. We never rotate as every wheel position has different wheels and dismounting to balance is not worth it for our coach. And our XZA3+ tires just don't wear.

Don't forget to consider FMCA Michelin Fleet Discount as it offers a consistent standard very good discount. Worth joining FMCA to take advantage if it.

Also very difficult to have a truck shop use a torque wrench to tighten lug nuts and some will over torque and 'yield' bolt threads, stretching them a bit.

Re: Tire Balancing Method

Reply #13 – August 13, 2014, 01:50:10 pm

Done been said but worth repeating for future new motor homers... Never pour or put anything inside a tire for balance or any other reason... All that goes inside is air.

Re: Tire Balancing Method

Reply #14 – August 13, 2014, 03:59:26 pm

At risk of starting another "opinion" dare I say Nitrogen

Just search, its all there

Sorry all

Re: Tire Balancing Method

Reply #15 – August 13, 2014, 07:05:48 pm

Since the atom of the smaller components supposedly leak thru the rubber faster than nitrogen, wouldn't repeated servicing with air result in only the nitrogen remaining?

Re: Tire Balancing Method

Reply #16 – August 13, 2014, 07:37:40 pm

I'm going to politely ask that if you want to talk about nitrogen, PLEASE search the forum - it's been discussed many, many times over.

This topic is supposed to be about tire balancing...

Re: Tire Balancing Method

Reply #17 – August 13, 2014, 09:02:59 pm

I have had seven RV'S and I have used EQUAL in all with no problem. The thing that I can advise is to have a tire shop that knows how to in stall Equal. As far as the beeds clogging the valve that is wrong. When you install the beeds you change the valve core. The new valve core has a screen that eliminates the chance of any beeds coming back up through the valve. You once install Equal you never need to balance your tires again. Smooth as glass. IMI ? Commercial Tire Products and Solutions Good Luck

Re: Tire Balancing Method

Reply #18 – August 13, 2014, 11:46:37 pm

Quote from: Karl Brenneman – August 13, 2014, 09:02:59 pm

I have had seven RV'S and I have used EQUAL in all with no problem. The thing that I can advise is to have a tire shop that knows how to in stall Equal. As far as the beeds clogging the valve that is wrong. When you install the beeds you change the valve core. The new valve core has a screen that eliminates the chance of any beeds coming back up through the valve. You once install Equal you never need to balance your tires again. Smooth as glass. IMI ? Commercial Tire Products and Solutions Good Luck

Like the info

Re: Tire Balancing Method

Reply #19 – August 14, 2014, 12:20:42 am

Nobody seemed to answer my question from above: how do they balance the tires installed on the coach?

Re: Tire Balancing Method

Reply #20 – August 14, 2014, 03:33:00 am

Have seen balancing tires mounted on axle, yes, they spin the tire up to about 70 mph, using a strobe light on a sensor that flashes when the heavy spot hits on the chalk marked tire. A person that knows how & where to add weight can smooth out the whole rotating assembly. It takes a savoy mechanic to get it right.
The down side of this type balance, if you have to make any changes to the wheel, remount, need to rebalance again.
Like any other opinion, depends on how you think, some love it, some like me prefer a balance on a road force balancer, then mount on axle.
My experience shows a good balance can be done on the old bubble balancer IF you know how using 4 weights, does great on about 99 of 100, sometimes you get a tire that has a dynamic issue. Have seen bad dynamics that equal & the fancy/expensive rings could not fix, why I have no use for that game, usually done by tire shops that are clueless or too cheap to buy the good balance equipment.
Do the feel good thing.

Re: Tire Balancing Method

Reply #21 – August 14, 2014, 03:45:03 am

When I had new Michelin's installed I was told that they did not need to be balanced. I insisted that all the tires be balanced including the fronts that have the balancing rings.
The tire shop used stick on wheel weights (a bunch of them) that are stuck to the outer surface of the rim. They don't look very good. Something tells me that this was NOT the correct approach. Weights on the horizontal plane of the Alcoa rim not on the rim edge ( I always remember wheel weights being on the outer rim of a wheel, at least on cars).

The entire tire installation was a disaster, so when It was done I high tailed it out of there to get the stuff they broke fixed at another shop. Eventually I will deal with the wheel weight issue (if there is one other than appearance). I don't have any issues with a out of balance tire.

Re: Tire Balancing Method

Reply #22 – August 14, 2014, 10:03:28 am

Quote from: krush – August 14, 2014, 12:20:42 am

Nobody seemed to answer my question from above: how do they balance the tires installed on the coach?

They raise the front wheels off the ground. Then use an electric motor-driven wheel to get the coach wheel/tire up to speed. They use a strobe to determine where weight needs to be added. The shops that do it make a point of putting a glass of water on the front bumper. After balancing on the rig, with the tire going 70 MPH, there is not a ripple in the surface of the water.

This is becoming almost a lost art. You can take a Bubba and teach him to use a computer balancer in a matter of minutes. But not so with the "balance on the coach" method.

The beauty of the "on the coach" method is that all rotating masses are in balance. That brake drum/disk and hub are over 100 pounds. So, not surprising if they are out a couple of ounces.

Brett

Re: Tire Balancing Method

Reply #23 – August 14, 2014, 10:26:20 am

Lon, No need to add balance weights when you have BALANCING RINGS ( Centramatic Balancers ) in fact they may work at cross purposes.
Gary B

Re: Tire Balancing Method

Reply #24 – August 14, 2014, 12:32:52 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – August 14, 2014, 10:03:28 am

The beauty of the "on the coach" method is that all rotating masses are in balance.

PLUS the fact that the wheels do not have to be removed from coach. Automatically eliminates the possibility of cross-threaded nuts, broken studs, and incorrect torque, etc. Seems very worthwhile to seek out the remaining practitioners of this art. Any recommendations?

Question: does this method only work for the front tires, or can it be applied to the "duals"?

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