VIP Smartwheel Upgrade

Topic: VIP Smartwheel Upgrade (Read 3889 times) previous topic - next topic

VIP Smartwheel Upgrade

November 02, 2014, 01:17:33 am

This is something I have been thinking about for over a year. The original Smartwheel on our coach is the old style with with faded lettering, progressively more unresponsive non-tactile controls, and a sub optimal layout of functions, paired with an SM203 IPX Master Wiper controller. Reading the technical support website for VIP, the SM206 includes an extra set of wires for a variable delay potentiometer. Some background to my quest: In the manual for our coach is a section for the variable speed wiper control that sounds great... for the longest time I thought it was inoperable or there was short in the opterator's headset

. I did some research that there was a change somewhere in the 99' model year. Our coach was actually built in July 98' according to the ID plaque, apparently putting it early in the 99' model year.

Now the questions begin... here is a quote from an earlier thread from Brett (AKA Amos.Harrison) who also has a 99' with a build number only 7 later than our 5402.

Quote

Have you called VIP? I got a new Smart Wheel from them several years ago, and it came with the Foretravel emblem in the center.

I read in some other thread that the next generation Smartwheel which has buttons logically grouped as to function, with the cruise all on the left, and the wiper functions on the right. I have included pictures of the Master Wiper Controller from our coach (IPX SM203) along with the BK series smart wheel that came with it and a picture of the 2nd gen VIP PC series Smartwheel similar to what I would like to upgrade to (which I cropped out of an eBay auction for an SOB coach... I doctored it a bit to make the lettering clearer and I couldn't bear to look at the Spartan Logo in the middle of it so I got rid of it

.

Somewhere I read that the PC series is compatible with the IPX SM203 Wiper Master Controller, but I can't find the links now. I want to piece it all together in my head before I get on the phone (another company that doesn't believe in e-commerce!) to order them. So for those who have gotten the PC series smart wheel upgrades to the early 99's and earlier Unicoaches, what combination of Wiper Master Controller and Smartwheel part number did you find you needed to put it altogether? Is it possible, or desirable to update the controller (with the possible necessary modifications to the wire harness)? Does the upgrade work to make the variable intermittent wiper action possible? I know I can add a delay timer separately, but it would be neat to keep this all on the wheel under the finger tips.
I know Dave Katsuki for one has upgraded his wheel (I think I remember him saying it wasn't quite plug and play), but his build number is likely one of the later 99's, though I may be wrong about that since 99' was one of the years FOT was cranking them out... I actually found one of the new old stock Smart Wheel Replacement PC Series PC217LWSB (Taupe leather) online for $100 without a center cap. I am only hesitant because I don't know how many variants of the PC series there might be. I might even grow to like the Taupe Leather

Don

Re: VIP Smartwheel Upgrade

Reply #1 – November 02, 2014, 01:30:38 am

The photos show the pc wheel. Is that what you have?

My 97 had the bk. switched to the pc. Everything works. No lights unless you change the column as I understand it.

My original pc was mis wired internally. Two functions reversed. Vip exchanged it and this works works well. Multiple speed wipers not continiously variable.

Much better.

I have a good bk if you want it. Letters faded but worked fine.

If this is not what you are asking about I am misunderstanding your question

Re: VIP Smartwheel Upgrade

Reply #2 – November 02, 2014, 10:41:14 am

Don, like Bob, I switched from the BK to PC series Smartwheel, but didn't mess with the wiper controller, so I only have multiple speed wipers, not variable speed.

Re: VIP Smartwheel Upgrade

Reply #3 – November 02, 2014, 12:04:46 pm

The first two pictures show our setup which has a VIP BK series Smartwheel and the associated SM203 Master Wiper Controller. I guess I should have cropped the image to make more obvious (see below). However you did answer one of my questions... the one about weather or not the PC series variable wiper speed works (you can see the button in the 3rd picture, lower right hand corner). One of my questions was also about which controllers were compatible with which Smartwheel part numbers, and which controller was used by people that have done the upgrade. I really, really don't like the layout of the wiper controls on the BK series, which has been increasingly evident the more I drive in the rain, and that is even if the buttons weren't getting less responsive. All this driving in the rain has also reinforced my appreciation of variable speed intermittent wipers, which I had on my last three cars. If I can't upgrade the VIP Smartwheel system to be able to use the variable speed function, then I will install a timer switch in line with the wipers and locate it somewhere easily memorized by my hand. True, the pulse function is usable when driving in drizzle, but it is one more thing to manage when driving our rig in sub optimal conditions. The backlit version would be really nice, but I found on the VIP website technical documents that it does require a different steering column, one that uses what they call a "clock-spring".
From the VIP Tech Support page;

Quote

Since February 2001 steering columns equipped with clock-springs have been widely used in motor homes. The clock-spring is a device in the steering column that allows continuous electrical connections through the rotation of the column without sliding contacts. The availability of the clock-spring has allowed the transmission of sufficient power through the column to backlight the steering wheel controls. Steering Wheel item numbers PC210x and PC217x utilize four wires for this purpose. These controls on these wheels are backlit.

If I chanced to come accros a salvage opportunity for one of these clock-spring equipped steering columns for a great price... well then $:-\$
Don

Quote from: Caflashbob – November 02, 2014, 01:30:38 am

The photos show the pc wheel. Is that what you have?
I have a good bk if you want it. Letters faded but worked fine.

If this is not what you are asking about I am misunderstanding your question

Re: VIP Smartwheel Upgrade

Reply #4 – November 02, 2014, 03:50:46 pm

If memory serves me my column has a multiple revolution big spring in it. And two wires.

Three speed? Intermittent. A fully variable would seem to be an upgrade. Hated to take my eyes off the road to relocate the function buttons on the bk. not imprint able on my old brain.

Plus the bk spoke angles cramped and irritated my middle fingers on my left hand after 3,500 miles in 13 days. Took weeks for it to heal.

Padded different angle spokes on the PC seems to have fixed it. Plus the controls being organized helps a lot.

Still need lighting up once in a while in dark area night driving to avoid incorrect button pushing as the locations are not yet totally imprinted.

Updates on the variable would be nice if you do persue it.

Re: VIP Smartwheel Upgrade

Reply #5 – November 02, 2014, 10:03:55 pm

According to the tech info at VIP, that doesn't seem possible unless the steering column was replaced after Feb, 2001... but if it did, you should be able to change the controller and some wiring and end up with an even newer Smartwheel with the pod mounted switches. I will update if and when I figure out a variable wiper solution. I don't know if the ones that were available in kit form as upgrades to standard systems will work or not, but I don't see why it wouldn't. Assuming there is no feedback signaling from the wiper motors to the Master Controller, it should work. However, I read somewhere in one of their trouble shooting guides that the controller keeps the two wiper motors in sync (do our coaches have two motors???) by holding the passenger die back until the driver's side returns to rest position. Have to do some research, but many projects in line ahead of this one. The basic Smartwheel upgrade should be pretty easy, so once I am sure of the part numbers, I will pursue it.
Don

Quote from: Caflashbob – November 02, 2014, 03:50:46 pm

If memory serves me my column has a multiple revolution big spring in it. And two wires.

Updates on the variable would be nice if you do persue it.

Re: VIP Smartwheel Upgrade

Reply #6 – November 03, 2014, 12:25:37 am

Maybe the spring is just a spring to position the parts. I knew we would not have an illuminated control pad so no problem.

Re: VIP Smartwheel Upgrade

Reply #7 – November 03, 2014, 12:44:05 am

Quote from: acousticart – November 02, 2014, 01:17:33 am

...
Does the upgrade work to make the variable intermittent wiper action possible? I know I can add a delay timer separately, but it would be neat to keep this all on the wheel under the finger tips.
I know Dave Katsuki for one has upgraded his wheel (I think I remember him saying it wasn't quite plug and play), but his build number is likely one of the later 99's, though I may be wrong about that since 99' was one of the years FOT was cranking them out... ..

After a long discussion with the techs at VIP, and getting one of the wrong Smart Wheel models from Encore old stock (I think it was a PC-209, which didn't fit), I ended up buying a VIP PC-215 model from VIP, per the advice of one of the VIP old timer techs. It did require a little modification of the circuit board connections in the wheel to get the cruise control functions right. Unfortunately I don't remember exactly what I did to tweak the wheel, but it wasn't too hard.

All the steering wheels of our era (old style Smart Wheels with black button clusters) have a two-wire wiper system which has two carbon brushes under the wheel, and therefore there aren't enough wires to run lights for the buttons. The later steering columns have the coiled printed circuit connector - "clock spring" style- (like all modern cars), and therefore have more connectors to play with.
Our IPX wiper controller is an SM-203, which apparently required a PC-215 wheel.

The new wheel doesn't do anything to add variable speed to the intermittent wiper function, unfortunately, so to change that, you would have to change the wiper controller or hack a separate timer circuit into the control code from the wheel (Hmmm...great project for an Arduino or Raspberry Pi microcontroller...).

And the big spring is just to keep tension on the wiper brushes, I think.

Re: VIP Smartwheel Upgrade

Reply #8 – November 06, 2014, 09:26:41 pm

Thanks for the info Dave... I was thinking that a simple delay timer between the wiper control module and the wiper motor would be adequate to add the feature, because I don't see why the output to the wiper motor would be multiplexed or have two way signaling, but I don't really know. Anyway, I found the SM206 at Visone salvage for $100.
From the VIP Tech support pages for the SM203-SM206;

Quote

MASTER:
The SM203 Master is supplied with seven connectors. The SM206 Master is supplied with an additional two pin connector for the variable wiper delay control. A table of the connector types is as follows:

...

Quote

J8-1 & 2 I.....Potentiometer input for variable wiper delay (used only on P/N SM-206)

Hopefully, all that will be required is modifying the connector that Dave mentioned and installing the new PC215 and SM206 combo and I will have a variable intermittent wiper control from the Smartwheel. Victor of tech support, seemed to think that it will work. If not, I should be able to add a pot to control the delay function. I found a NOS PC217 for $99 at; Smart Wheel Replacement PC Series PC217LWSB(Taupe leather): nwrvsupply.com
Unfortunately the cruise buttons have a cancel and an on/off toggle where as the PC215L has a discrete switches for on and off. So, I will get a new PC215 from direct from VIP. Unfortunately, Victor doesn't think they have any more of the center caps that have a Foretravel Logo (PC 107FT), but I can live with that... as long as it says VIP and not Freightliner or Spartan!
Don

Quote from: Dave Katsuki – November 03, 2014, 12:44:05 am

Our IPX wiper controller is an SM-203, which apparently required a PC-215 wheel.
The new wheel doesn't do anything to add variable speed to the intermittent wiper function, unfortunately, so to change that, you would have to change the wiper controller or hack a separate timer circuit into the control code from the wheel (Hmmm...great project for an Arduino or Raspberry Pi microcontroller...).

Re: VIP Smartwheel Upgrade

Reply #9 – November 07, 2014, 12:00:19 am

The three speed intermittent works well

Re: VIP Smartwheel Upgrade

Reply #10 – June 13, 2019, 12:02:54 pm

Well I opened up this old thread as could not find my posts about it.
I installed the new circuit board last year and this last trip few days ago was the first use of it and a strange thing happened ed. When putting on the wipers my clearance lights go on and even when wipers are off the lights stay on needing me to turn the light switch on and off. Has anyone got an idea, please on what may be happening and why? I used the new heavier pigtail for hooking it up and connected it up following the old wiring routing.
I have not contacted the supplier yet and thought one of our brain boxes on line may have a solution.
JohnH

Re: VIP Smartwheel Upgrade

Reply #11 – June 13, 2019, 12:49:20 pm

Could someone provide a link to a purchase site? Google sends me to a startup company... Thanks Bob

Re: VIP Smartwheel Upgrade

Reply #12 – June 13, 2019, 01:42:05 pm

Not sure what your coach can use?

Home | Vehicle Improvement Products Inc.

Re: VIP Smartwheel Upgrade

Reply #13 – June 13, 2019, 02:11:18 pm

http://www.nwrvsupply.com/product/PC217L.html
This looks similar to Foretravel's not sure if it is compatible

Re: VIP Smartwheel Upgrade

Reply #14 – June 13, 2019, 02:15:02 pm

try this item # PC217L. on WWW.nwrvsupply.com

Re: VIP Smartwheel Upgrade

Reply #15 – June 13, 2019, 02:41:38 pm

Don,
I have the VIP PC steering wheel in my coach. The buttons are laid out exactly as in your picture above. The wheel was in the coach when I purchased it so I don't know if it was changed out or it came original to the coach. Everything works on it. I don't know where the control box for it is located otherwise I would send you a picture also.
John M.

Re: VIP Smartwheel Upgrade

Reply #16 – June 13, 2019, 03:15:45 pm

Thanks John,
This is a thread I started 5 years ago. I managed to replace the wheel with the PC215 several years back and I replaced the SM203 controller with a SM206. The controller IPX master wiper controller (which handles all the multiplexed control signals from the two wire steering column, including cruise functions, headlight and clearance flashing) is located on the pull up board in the center part of the dash. The PC215 wheel and SM206 controller combo works it should, however, it has not enabled the variable intermittent wiper controls as I had hoped and as described in the manual which came with our coach. I still need to incorporate a variable resistor to do that. In fact, without the variable resistor (on my project list

) the intermittent wiper button just cycles the wiper one time. Yours has a later build date (152 higher build number than mine), and I have noticed that later 99' year model coaches have what appears to be a PC217. I wonder if your controller is an SM203, SM206, or SM209 and if your wipers have a programable intermittent capability...
Don
Edit: I will add that the button lay out for the cruise and wiper controls makes for a much upgraded driving experience VS. the earlier style smartwheel. Also, I find the wheel feels much more comfortable in my hands than the old one, even though the old one was in good shape.

Quote from: John Morales – June 13, 2019, 02:41:38 pm

Don,
I have the VIP PC steering wheel in my coach. The buttons are laid out exactly as in your picture above. The wheel was in the coach when I purchased it so I don't know if it was changed out or it came original to the coach. Everything works on it. I don't know where the control box for it is located otherwise I would send you a picture also.
John M.

Re: VIP Smartwheel Upgrade

Reply #17 – June 13, 2019, 03:22:37 pm

On my coach I have the stock wheel I assume and when I turn on the wipers the head lights come on. So maybe it is some kind of a safety feature built in...

Re: VIP Smartwheel Upgrade

Reply #18 – June 13, 2019, 03:32:34 pm

Quote from: John Morales – June 13, 2019, 02:41:38 pm

Don,
I have the VIP PC steering wheel in my coach. The buttons are laid out exactly as in your picture above. The wheel was in the coach when I purchased it so I don't know if it was changed out or it came original to the coach. Everything works on it. I don't know where the control box for it is located otherwise I would send you a picture also.
John M.

John, you and I have about the same build numbers and the wheel is the original one. Too bad it doesn't light up like the newer ones.

Re: VIP Smartwheel Upgrade

Reply #19 – June 13, 2019, 03:55:25 pm

Quote from: hdff – June 13, 2019, 03:22:37 pm

On my coach I have the stock wheel I assume and when I turn on the wipers the head lights come on. So maybe it is some kind of a safety feature built in...

I noticed when I got out of the coach one time the headlights and clearance lights were on and I did not turn on. I had to go and turn on the head lights and turn back off to get them to go off. Later I am driving and turn the wipers on and noticed the headlights came on, I then figured out every time I turn on the wipers the headlights come on and only way to get them to turn off is to turn the headlight switch on and then off

Re: VIP Smartwheel Upgrade

Reply #20 – June 13, 2019, 04:38:49 pm

Don, mine is the 209 one now.
JohnH

Re: VIP Smartwheel Upgrade

Reply #21 – June 13, 2019, 05:05:07 pm

😂😂Sorry Don! Didn't realize your post was from 5 years ago. I was going by the most recent response. Will have to look more closely next time.😁😁

Craneman, it would be nice if ours would light up. Hard to see sometimes.

John M.

Re: VIP Smartwheel Upgrade

Reply #22 – June 13, 2019, 05:48:18 pm

Quote from: John Morales – June 13, 2019, 05:05:07 pm

😂😂Sorry Don! Didn't realize your post was from 5 years ago. I was going by the most recent response. Will have to look more closely next time.😁😁

Craneman, it would be nice if ours would light up. Hard to see sometimes.

John M.

John M, this works great to light up mine when I went from the BK to the PC wheel. I just replaced maplight with this. Touch on/off works fast when light is needed. I also replaced the map light on the entry side, where extra base plate was not needed.

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Re: VIP Smartwheel Upgrade

Reply #23 – June 13, 2019, 07:19:17 pm

Was the OEM one you replaced also the SM209? Is the intermittent setting on yours variable?
Don

Quote from: John Haygarth – June 13, 2019, 04:38:49 pm

Don, mine is the 209 one now.
JohnH

Re: VIP Smartwheel Upgrade

Reply #24 – June 13, 2019, 09:47:37 pm

Don, will look later for model and yes I can set what ever time delay I what
JohnH

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