Engine in Dani's coach won't stay running (split from Re: Another Battery Problem)

Topic: Engine in Dani's coach won't stay running (split from Re: Another Battery Problem) (Read 2336 times) previous topic - next topic

Engine in Dani's coach won't stay running (split from Re: Another Battery Problem)

November 16, 2014, 08:55:10 am

Quote from: Tom Lang – November 15, 2014, 10:05:02 pm

I think the best solution would be that relay gizmo that Don found. I might get one and just wire it across the diode isolator.

Tom, is that the VSR? This is what FOT put on my coach Friday, voltage sensing relay, connects all batteries in the coach together like a trickle charger....a lot of people at the ladies' school got 'em after hearing James T. elaborate on it. Anyway I left FOT yesterday with no trouble all day & now this morning at the campground in Robert, LA she started right up then when I went out to unhook, she shut down. All my cheat sheets were not working, Coach Net is on the way after a lengthy discussion, also talked to Gary B. & he thinks it's a loose battery connection, which shoouldn't be happening after all batteries were load tested, & re-wired with heavy duty cables/terminals.

Anyway, I wish I had that charger the guys jumped her with at FOT before the techs got hold of her. Next stop will be for one of those!

Re: Engine in Dani's coach won't stay running (split from Re: Another Battery Problem)

Reply #1 – November 16, 2014, 10:58:34 am

Quote from: Miz Dani – November 16, 2014, 08:55:10 am

I left FOT yesterday with no trouble all day & now this morning at the campground in Robert, LA she started right up then when I went out to unhook, she shut down. All my cheat sheets were not working, Coach Net is on the way after a lengthy discussion, also talked to Gary B. & he thinks it's a loose battery connection, which shoouldn't be happening after all batteries were load tested, & re-wired with heavy duty cables/terminals.

Dani, sorry to hear you are having trouble. Your coach should be in good shape after the work you had done at FOT this week.

To be clear, you are saying your coach ran fine all day Saturday, and you stayed overnight connected to shore power (30amp or 50amp?). Then this morning your engine started normally and ran until you disconnected shore power, at which time it shut down? This does not sound like a "loose battery connection" to me. Did you try to restart the engine? What was the result? Before the smart people on the forum (not me) can make suggestions, they will need more info. OR, you can just let Coach Net deal with it. If all they do is jump-start your engine and get it running, they have not solved your problem.

You need to somehow determine the reason why the engine quit running this morning. Good luck and let us know how it goes!

Re: Engine in Dani's coach won't stay running (split from Re: Another Battery Problem)

Reply #2 – November 16, 2014, 11:34:20 am

Hey Chuck, waiting for Coach Net guy #2 now, not a battery issue, in talking with both Gary B and Gary O it seems to be a fuel pump issue, Gary O talked me thru bleeding the air lines, I got her started, but she kept cutting out again, ran the cycle several times and started her up again but agan she died, NOW true confessions, I had such a wretched travel day yesterday into the dark of night, (ack!) & ran down to a quarter tank of fuel, well she's less than that now so CN now has 20 gallons of fuel coming to me...HOWEVER....I was topped off on fuel last week when she died on me at the FOT dump station, got her going with bleeding air/water, pushing remote start button, then she died up the hill on the way back to my spot....that's when we got her started with battery jump & I had FOT do all the battery testing/work...well now it's actually a fuel issue...took a ton of notes from Gary O. & all of it has to do with any number of issues all concerning this fuel pump & lines, possible leak, he says she's sucking air....not getting fuel....maybe a bad lift pump or leaking fuel filter or bad gasket or filter, most likely the whole fuel assembly needs to be replaced...

Re: Engine in Dani's coach won't stay running (split from Re: Another Battery Problem)

Reply #3 – November 16, 2014, 11:39:37 am

My 98 suffered engine shut down at the best of all places, in the FOT parking lot. After the owner messed with the problems, including jump starting, FOT replaced the fuel lines. There are a couple of year models of failing fuel lines that have been problems for the owners.

Re: Engine in Dani's coach won't stay running (split from Re: Another Battery Problem)

Reply #4 – November 16, 2014, 12:13:16 pm

Quote from: Miz Dani – November 16, 2014, 11:34:20 am

I had such a wretched travel day yesterday into the dark of night, (ack!)

Dani,

Sorry to hear you had trouble coming home from the Ladies Driving School. Don't feel lonesome; Jean and I had an engine shut down that involved Snake Eyes. More on that later.

Quote from: Miz Dani – November 16, 2014, 11:34:20 am

I was topped off on fuel last week when she died on me at the FOT dump station

Where was it? Jean and I never found it. I was beginning to think it was an urban myth.

Better luck from now on!

Trent

Re: Engine in Dani's coach won't stay running (split from Re: Another Battery Problem)

Reply #5 – November 16, 2014, 01:26:13 pm

Quote from: Dave and Dolly Cobb – November 16, 2014, 11:39:37 am

My 98 suffered engine shut down at the best of all places, in the FOT parking lot. After the owner messed with the problems, including jump starting, FOT replaced the fuel lines. There are a couple of year models of failing fuel lines that have been problems for the owners.

Hey Dave, had all the fuel lines replaced in January of this year by Paul Yasbeck....now have a half tank of fuel, ran the air bleed cycle again and she tried to start (did briefly) then shut down again....Coach Net is now going to do a search for a qualified diesel tech in the Hammond area (am in Robert, LA) & call me back tomorrow, am staying another night and frankly could use the break....I gave Gary O's list to the CN folks so they're armed with the best info possible to find someone & explain the situation. We'll see what tomorrow brings!

Trent, was so great to see Jean driving out of FOT on Friday, she's a pro already! I was cheering on the sidelines! What a great experience, & so good to meet you two and everybody else! First class coaches, first class owners! Oh, the dump station is right next to the dumpster, and another one right across from that.

Re: Engine in Dani's coach won't stay running (split from Re: Another Battery Problem)

Reply #6 – November 16, 2014, 01:35:33 pm

Quote from: Miz Dani – November 16, 2014, 01:26:13 pm

Hey Dave, had all the fuel lines replaced in January of this year by Paul Yasbeck....now have a half tank of fuel, ran the air bleed cycle again and she tried to start (did briefly) then shut down again....Coach Net is now going to do a search for a qualified diesel tech in the Hammond area (am in Robert, LA) & call me back tomorrow, am staying another night and frankly could use the break....I gave Gary O's list to the CN folks so they're armed with the best info possible to find someone & explain the situation. We'll see what tomorrow brings!

Well, that is good, that is a pain to do, and a couple of coach bucks as well.
You or someone mentioned the fuel pump, what about the solenoid that shuts down the engine when the key is off? Some have learned they had to zip tie it open for the day, till they could replace the solenoid.

Re: Engine in Dani's coach won't stay running (split from Re: Another Battery Problem)

Reply #7 – November 16, 2014, 01:50:20 pm

Thanks Dave for the tip, will put that on the list...where is that located? (though the diesel guys will probably know). I am getting pretty good at bleeding the air out of the fuel pump! Go ahead, throw some more at me!

Re: Engine in Dani's coach won't stay running (split from Re: Another Battery Problem)

Reply #8 – November 16, 2014, 01:56:45 pm

Finally had a chance to find mine. It is located on the driver's end of the fuel pump, and is standing up and down. It pulls an arm that moves an inch or so. Your mechanic is sure to know where to find it, and pull it open.

Enjoy the day off, while you are parked and safe.

Re: Engine in Dani's coach won't stay running (split from Re: Another Battery Problem)

Reply #9 – November 16, 2014, 02:34:19 pm

If it is the fuel shutoff solenoid and it szip tied open to run you will have to cut thezip tie to turn off the engine. Not sure that solenoid would contribute to air in the system though.

Roland

Re: Engine in Dani's coach won't stay running (split from Re: Another Battery Problem)

Reply #10 – November 16, 2014, 04:27:46 pm

Quote from: Roland Begin – November 16, 2014, 02:34:19 pm

If it is the fuel shutoff solenoid and it szip tied open to run you will have to cut thezip tie to turn off the engine. Not sure that solenoid would contribute to air in the system though.

Roland

So true, sometime is wrong if she is getting air. Wild guess, I have read of low fuel issues, and the engine and generator hooked up on the wrong supply tube. Engine should be on the longest, and the generator should die first.

Re: Engine in Dani's coach won't stay running (split from Re: Another Battery Problem)

Reply #11 – November 16, 2014, 04:37:19 pm

Since she had her fuel lines changed recently you may be on to something. I have found a new problem is likely to be related to any recent changes. That's why I have adopted "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" philosophy. Many times preventative maintenance produces more problems than it prevents, particularly in my Foretravel.

Re: Engine in Dani's coach won't stay running (split from Re: Another Battery Problem)

Reply #12 – November 16, 2014, 04:51:28 pm

Quote from: Miz Dani – November 16, 2014, 01:50:20 pm

Thanks Dave for the tip, will put that on the list...where is that located? (though the diesel guys will probably know). I am getting pretty good at bleeding the air out of the fuel pump! Go ahead, throw some more at me!

Dani - do you have the Winn system on your coach? Perhaps the o-rings are letting air in?

Winn fuel system

There are a bunch of other threads - if you search for winn air you'll pull them up (don't put it in quotes)

Michelle

ETA - here are some

M-11 won't start today

ISM 450 Slow to Start

ISM 450 Slow to Start

Racor fuel and water seperator bypass

Air in my fuel system, engine won't stay running!

Re: Engine in Dani's coach won't stay running (split from Re: Another Battery Problem)

Reply #13 – November 16, 2014, 05:08:42 pm

Thanks for all the input, this coach sat for about 8 years, (only 43,000 miles now!) when I bought her a year ago, fuel lines were all badly cracked so had to do it. Michelle, not sure if it's the Winn system, I know Gary O said a lot of people are changing over from the dual fuel assembly to a single one, this may be the original fuel pump? Though I think the filters are dated January '14 when Paul Y did all the work to bring her back to life. And the generator never stopped, kept going even as the engine died.

Coach Net will deal with this again tomorrow with diesel mechanics. Hope they are good & trustworthy as I am ~a single woman~ but know quite a bit about this system already just from today's "adventure." By the way Coach Net has been fabulous all day, as well as all the people they sent.

Re: Engine in Dani's coach won't stay running (split from Re: Another Battery Problem)

Reply #14 – November 16, 2014, 05:12:55 pm

Fixed my Winn fuel filter system three times by pros and it still leaked. On the Dyno 58hp different to bypass the filter completely and hookup the inlet to the filter hose directly to the engine.

Replaced the Winn. Mechanic at cummins used to work at jb hunt truck company back in 97 and remembered the problems with the units.

Re: Engine in Dani's coach won't stay running (split from Re: Another Battery Problem)

Reply #15 – November 16, 2014, 05:55:30 pm

Edit- quote added for clarity;

Quote

NOW true confessions, I had such a wretcehd travel day yesterday into the dark of night, (ack!) & ran down to a quarter tank of fuel, well she's less than that now...

Have you run it this low on fuel before? If not, perhaps whoever changed out the fuel lines switched the generator and main engine feeds. If so, the pick up for the main engine would be sucking air somewhere between a quarter and an eighth of a tank... just a thought. Does the generator start and keep running?
Don

Re: Engine in Dani's coach won't stay running (split from Re: Another Battery Problem)

Reply #16 – November 16, 2014, 06:33:52 pm

What Don said makes a lot of sense to me,

although if the fuel is now at half a tank or more something else must be wrong. Some type of sensing switch going bad.

Re: Engine in Dani's coach won't stay running (split from Re: Another Battery Problem)

Reply #17 – November 16, 2014, 06:42:51 pm

I would verify that you are getting fuel through the injection pump by pulling off the return hose at the rear of your injection pump and run a short hose into a jug, verifying that your lift pump is getting fuel through the engine.

When pushing on the lift pump, plunger to manually prime the fuel system you should be able to hear the squish of the fuel exiting the injection pump. When my lift pump was worn out, you couldn't hear anything.

Re: Engine in Dani's coach won't stay running (split from Re: Another Battery Problem)

Reply #18 – November 16, 2014, 07:17:04 pm

Our Winn fuel system had an inline fuel assist pump that was not getting power and when the engine called for extra fuel, it was like trying to suck a pea thru a straw. The power to the fuel assist pump came from the little black box that you use to purge and fiddle with the fuel filter on the back of the engine. The engine would buck and shudder, especially if we were asking it to go up a long grade, and the engine would need to downshift and want extra fuel. The mechanic attached vacuum lines to the fuel system to measure the pressure, and was able to figure it out. The fix was to get rid of the fuel assist pump and the filter that went with it, and just use a single, water separating filter in it's place. The fix was easy, the diagnosis was the hard part. This was on a Cummins M-11 in our '02. Keep us all posted!!!

Re: Engine in Dani's coach won't stay running (split from Re: Another Battery Problem)

Reply #19 – November 16, 2014, 07:59:45 pm

Yes, Racor who bought Winn has declared the old Winn system obsolete (highly problematic) and has a suppression that they highly recommend.

Re: Engine in Dani's coach won't stay running (split from Re: Another Battery Problem)

Reply #20 – November 16, 2014, 08:39:18 pm

I believe that the Winn/Racor systems were only on the m11's or ISM's. I know our ISC doesn't have one and I doubt that Dani's older mechanical c8.3's would have them.
Don

Re: Engine in Dani's coach won't stay running (split from Re: Another Battery Problem)

Reply #21 – November 16, 2014, 10:45:31 pm

Quote from: Michelle – November 16, 2014, 04:51:28 pm

Dani - do you have the Winn system on your coach? Perhaps the o-rings are letting air in?

Winn fuel system

There are a bunch of other threads - if you search for winn air you'll pull them up (don't put it in quotes)

Michelle

ETA - here are some

M-11 won't start today

ISM 450 Slow to Start

ISM 450 Slow to Start

Racor fuel and water seperator bypass

Air in my fuel system, engine won't stay running!

Michelle, thanks for this list, good info, & helped me figure out what the little "colostomy bag" hanging off the fuel filter assembly is! All the folks at the ladies' school know what I'm talkin' about. Photo by Barry B. (reply #5) on last thread ("air in my fuel system, coach won't stay running") is of the bag. This is exactly what Martha Dameron found out when she started asking everybody she met at FOT what it might be. And, Gary O of course knew what it was before I could hardly spit it out!

Re: Engine in Dani's coach won't stay running (split from Re: Another Battery Problem)

Reply #22 – November 17, 2014, 06:14:56 am

If it is the Winn Racor just bypass it. You have another fuel filter on there to carry the load till you get it replaced.

Re: Engine in Dani's coach won't stay running (split from Re: Another Battery Problem)

Reply #23 – November 17, 2014, 10:04:29 am

Sorry you are having problems Dani. I haven't been on for a couple of days and wish you had the issues fixed while at FOT. I will look for the other post about the colosomy bag..............lol.

I have had several issues on my coach- each caused problems but themselves,but after fixing all coach is running well now. Maybe I shouldn't say that too loud.

I agree with the others about the fuel situation. Since you ran your fuel tank low, you might have sucked up some of the crud from the bottom. This could clog your fuel filters big time. Is your generator running? If so, the first thing I would recommend is changing the fuel filters. Also, since your coach sat for so long, you might want to look into fuel polishing to clean the crud out of your tank.

If not, be sure to carry at least 3 spare filters because it often takes multiple changes to clear out a fuel system.

Did they change the primary fuel/ water separator on your coach at FOT? If so, then you should be able to change that filter out very easy.

Main thing is you are off the road safe, the rest is part of the adventure.

Re: Engine in Dani's coach won't stay running (split from Re: Another Battery Problem)

Reply #24 – November 17, 2014, 11:28:39 am

Thanks guys, the tech is gonna call me before he leaves the shop so I can tell him what to bring (parts)...Bill this is good info, I sort of knew it wasn't a Winn/Racor...hope to switch to the single filter assembly unit, got more notes from Gary O this morning & really appreciate all the feedback! You guys are great....Ted, you were there when she first died, full of fuel but chasing wild geese in the dark in southern LA didn't help, I already have had more than one (well deserved) spanking on that...

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