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Topic: Haldex pump (Read 1908 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Haldex pump

Reply #50 –
From what the people here have been told, Foretravel used several different pumps back then. I'm not sure whether all U300's got the same pump, all U280's got another, etc. At any rate, we have separate fan and power steering pumps, so we've been able to drive the coach from the campsite to the shop and back each day. By now I think we have driven it nearly a half mile since the original breakdown.

I have both the original pump and the replacement pump in my possession, and I'll pick up the pulley as we leave this afternoon. We're going to spend tonight with some friends in the KC area. He has a machine shop and is an old-school mechanic. A seal kit is on the way to his shop, and the plan is to see if the old pump can be rebuilt. The problem is that the gear and shaft are proprietary items, so the only source is Concentric, and they don't keep them in stock. They do a run and when they're out they plan another run. Seems like with something like that they would do a run of those parts BEFORE they run out, but I'm not in charge of their business.

Re: Haldex pump

Reply #51 –
As David has stated, it is ultimately fruitless to question engineering decisions made 2 decades ago...  STILL, I find it hard to think of any rational explanation for these different hydraulic pump fitments.  Sure, his coach has a different engine, and slightly different "packaging" requirements.  When you are in the process of building a coach, how tough is it to design a bracket that bolts on any given engine and provides a mounting point for a specific pump?  His coach came down the FOT assembly line 12 units behind mine.  On my coach, "they" decided to install a common off-the-shelf pump that was used in countless hydraulic systems around the world.  On his coach "they" decided to use a custom built, seemingly one-of-a kind pump apparently used in very few other applications.  WHY would "they" make that decision?  All they had to do was tweak the mounting bracket design slightly, and they could have used the Vickers pump, same as on my coach.

I don't mean this as a criticism of FOT or the factory employees who built these wonderful coaches.  I just have to wonder what was going on in the engineer's heads...it baffles me.
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Haldex pump

Reply #52 –
I have a seperate power steering pump that is bolted to the engine (CAT 3176b). The fan pump is a tandem pump Haldex. These are the numbers off of it;
    Haldex
W9A2-1800118
  15DEC2000

Attached is the schematic that I received with my rig, there are 2 hoses for each pump section.
Rick

Re: Haldex pump

Reply #53 –
Pierce,
Maybe say 9 smaller fans, three rows of three, bring them on one row at a time with temperature switches as necessary?
JD
John Duld
1995 U320C SE 40'

Re: Haldex pump

Reply #54 –
 OK Last comment which seems to have been misunderstood. FT built the coach and have records of everyone of them (so it seems by many other comments over last few years) and this is what I was referrring to that if anyone should know what fits what it is FT. I was not commenting on their decision at the time of build of what type of pump etc to use, just that it was an" XYZ" and that it would  have certain design characteristics over another one etc. Unless it had been changed out by a PO and FT did not know, but highly unlikely.
That is all.
JohnH
Coachless, now use aircraft. 2003 Ford Travelair TC280 class C. Super shape. Just for 1 yr .
1994 Ford E350 ClassC,total renovation inside and out. Now sold.
2000 U295  36' Cummins 350 c/w Banks Stinger, Resonator upgrade,Solar, LED lites.Residential fridge with slide out pantry. Build 5674. Sold
ex 92 GV 022C ored Cummins. Sold
ex 95 GV240 cat 3116. Sold
2017 Mini cooper s & 2016 land Rover LR2 HSE  LUX.
jhaygarth@aol.com    SKP #130098
treat everyone as you would like to be.

Re: Haldex pump

Reply #55 –
Just got this from Concentric:

"1800465 is the unit with the extended shaft for the Foretravel application.
1303201 is the same mount, displacement and ports with a standard extension and is a shelf stock pump."

The first number is the Haldex number stamped on the case. The second is from the Concentric sticker on the end on the pump. I think that either Foretravel got a standard pump instead of the custom one they needed, and somehow this one didn't get returned, OR Foretravel sent the wrong pump. Anyway, this afternoon we'll be with our friends and maybe we can find a solution. From what Concentric said, it sounds like this pump is unique to Foretravel, and maybe even just U300 coaches.

Re: Haldex pump

Reply #56 –
New update:

Last week we headed north a day early to visit our friends and took along both pumps and the old pulley. The old pump got a seal kit and a thorough inspection. It was tested and is in new condition now. I sent a message to Cabin Diesel telling them that and that we would be back today. A few minutes later I got a phone call saying they would come in tomorrow (they are supposed to be closed) to get it installed and send us on our way!

Cabin Diesel has really worked to help us. I will keep them in mind for other work.

Re: Haldex pump

Reply #57 –
Quote from: kb0zke –
New update:

Last week we headed north a day early to visit our friends and took along both pumps and the old pulley. The old pump got a seal kit and a thorough inspection. It was tested and is in new condition now. I sent a message to Cabin Diesel telling them that and that we would be back today. A few minutes later I got a phone call saying they would come in tomorrow (they are supposed to be closed) to get it installed and send us on our way!

Cabin Diesel has really worked to help us. I will keep them in mind for other work.
Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart –


So here is what happened as I see it. You were driving down the road and noticed a loss of power. The steering wheel rim had blocked the warning lights and the DDEC II had gone into shutdown mode, protecting the engine. After 30 seconds of reduced power, the engine shuts off. The override switch can be used but repeated use has ruined engines. The hydraulic pump had leaked all the oil out so the fans stopped working.

The company wanted you to open your wallet and probably was not up to speed on the system so wanted to order all new components. Correct? Now, a bunch of stuff has arrived but does not look like the OEM and they don't really know what to do except charge your credit card.

Send the pump out to be rebuilt by someone who knows what they are doing if you can't find a reasonable replacement.


Pierce
It looks like we have a winner, congratulations Pierce
Rick

Re: Haldex pump

Reply #58 –
Final update on this: Short version is we're finally in Stillwater and all is good.

Long version: Foretravel used a standard pump, but with a proprietary shaft that is 1/2 inch longer than standard on the U300 coaches. I don't know about others, but at least some used a standard pump. Concentric bought Haldex some years ago, and as far as anyone can tell, Foretravel is the only one that uses this oddball shaft. Foretravel didn't have any of the right ones in stock, and won't for some time. A friend of ours has a machine shop and is an old-time mechanic. He got the service manual from Concentric and decided that he could rebuilt the pump IF nothing was damaged internally. Since we were going past his place on our way to family anyway, I brought both old and new pumps to him. His thought was that if the long shaft was okay, but the case was damaged, he could at least put the long shaft into the new pump.

As it turned out, all was fine with the old pump. A test here had it not producing proper pressure, but after a seal kit it works as well as a new pump. The shaft and gears are in new condition, even after more than 20 years of service. You can still see the machining marks on them. I called Cabin Diesel to give them the good news and verify that we would return to the coach on 1 January. Shortly after that phone call Cabin Diesel called me back. They were going to have a couple of guys come in on Friday (even though they were closed) to get us on the road again!

I brought the coach in about 8:00, and by 10:00 we were on the road. The weather hasn't been the best here, and it turned out that that was about the best time to be on the road. We're pretty much settled in here, and tomorrow I start working on the project.

I really appreciate all that Cabin Diesel did for us. They do have a little campground with full hookups there. Probably not a great place in July or August, but certainly is a reasonable choice for an overnight. WARNING: There is an old Route 66 cafe in Vinita that has excellent food. It has been in the same family for 80+ years and is only a few miles away. If you stay at Cabin Diesel they will tell you about it.

Thanks, also, to all of you forum friends who gave us advice here. We're at a private campground near Stillwater. If you are passing through give us a heads up and we'll see if we can meet you. I work Monday-Friday at the church. At this point I know we leave the campground about 0630. Don't know what time we get back. I'll know that tomorrow.

Re: Haldex pump

Reply #59 –
David, These is a salvage yard in KY, called Vision or some such, they had a FT in but that's all I can recall.
Gary B

Re: Haldex pump

Reply #60 –
I don't think Cabin Diesel went that far out searching, but they did try Colaw's. They even called Newell, which is just a few miles east. No luck at either place.

Re: Haldex pump

Reply #61 –
Quote from: Gary Bouland –
David, These is a salvage yard in KY, called Vision or some such,
Visone.  reports are of ridiculously high prices

Wanted - Pair of Walnut Cabinet Doors

Switch panel source
Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
2003 U320

Re: Haldex pump

Reply #62 –
I was just going to mention the same thing. I guess if you really needed a part and they had it you'd probably have to bite the bullet.
Richard & Betty Bark & Keiko our Golden Doodle
2003 U320T 3820 PBDS
Build # 6215
MC # 16926
2016 Chevrolet Colorado 4X4 diesel

Re: Haldex pump

Reply #63 –
These hydraulic system components are usually designed for industrial use. This means 24/7 operation (8765hrs in a year). That they "wear out" on a motorhome is something I'm not buying. Leaking seals is usually the first thing we notice. My hypothesis, though not proven, is that using diesel oil isn't the best thing for the systems. There's nothing to really wear out on these components, they are pretty darn simple.
1998 U270 34'

Re: Haldex pump

Reply #64 –
As I understand it, something caused one of the hydraulic fan motors to seize, which caused a loss of fluid. The original motors are NLA, hence a switch to something newer, which also involved changing the hydraulic speed switch. The concern with the pump was that it had been run dry, and when Cabin Diesel tried turning it by hand it seemed to bind sometimes. They say they "tested" it and it wasn't putting out the pressure it should. The guess from those who actually had the pump apart was that maybe some bit of crud got in the pump. At any rate, the rebuild was quite a bit cheaper than the new pump.