Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Topic: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show (Read 3183 times) previous topic - next topic

Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

January 14, 2015, 07:19:37 pm

I had a chance to look at the new Realm at the Tampa Rv show and I must say, I am not impressed with exterior Paint and Finish. Lots of orange peel and not show quality paint. Also not impressed with finish quality of interior cabinets. Clearly other brands selling for less have done a better job on both these areas. Anybody else at the show feel the same way?

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #1 – January 14, 2015, 08:03:04 pm

And that is the problem isn't it. Folks look to the exterior of everything, if it shines and glitters it must be good. No concern about the "bones" and how long the basic stricture will last. My DW and I are full timing in a twenty one year old coach that was NOT in good condition when purchased and far from "glitzy". BUT the BONES are solid. I have no idea how you market sound undercarriage and structure in today's glitz expectancy.

Roland

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #2 – January 14, 2015, 08:32:38 pm

The amount of extra effort required to produce a nice paint job and nice cabinetry work--especially for a unit going to the "show"--is insignificant in the big scheme of costs.

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #3 – January 14, 2015, 09:18:36 pm

"The amount of extra effort required to produce a nice paint job and nice cabinetry work--especially for a unit going to the "show"--is insignificant in the big scheme of costs." Very true. Even if the factory technically loses money on the show coach, they will more than make it up in sales. Since the outside is the first thing a customer sees, I would think that the exterior of a show coach would be absolutely flawless. Yes, that should be the case for all coaches, but we know that that doesn't happen. If I was looking to spend somewhere around $1,000,000 for a new coach and I saw a poor paint job on the show coach, why would I think that the one they might build for me would be any better? I'd just keep on walking.

Last month we got to tour the Newell factory and saw the show coach being built. We could have gone in, but there were so many people working on it that we decided not to. That coach was getting more attention than the others on the line. I suspect that they will sell that coach for somewhat less than a similar spec coach, so they will maybe break even on it. If that coach sells even one more coach than they would have sold otherwise, though, they make it all back.

What did Foretravel have there besides the Realm?

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #4 – January 14, 2015, 10:34:10 pm

Next to the Realm was a IH-45 which did not have these paint and finish issues or at least I didn't see them. The Realm is priced to compete with coaches in the 5-7 Hundred Thousand dollar range and I can tell you the competition in my opinion is better. As far as bones Sparten Chassis are common and engines are similar. Flexsteel and Villa is common. I too have a 20 year foretravel .. coach with good bones and I can tell you the wood and finish work in my coach is better than the Realm and my exterior gelcoat while twenty years old is as good. If Foretravel is to continue to compete as a quality builder it must pay attention to every facet of the coach, ones the eye can see as well as those it can't .The American car makers finally learned that lesson. Quality is not defined by price alone. A quality product is one that provides the best value given a set of requirements.

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #5 – January 14, 2015, 11:16:43 pm

That is very disappointing. The Realm was designed to match the King Aire. I hope they sell some but it looks like they did not put their best foot forward from the sounds of things.

I said a while ago that the Phenix and the Essex came out about the same time and they produced over 1000 Essex coaches and the insides were very nice. We have no where near that many coaches across all the models in the same time period. They sold for the same price, so that was not the issue either.

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #6 – January 15, 2015, 01:14:12 am

Monaco show coaches had extra clear coat apllied for an FMCA rally.

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #7 – January 15, 2015, 07:23:19 am

I am certainly no "paint" expert or even close. But was at FOT while the Realm was being readied for the Tampa Show.
For me, I was amazed at the number of "QC Stickers" found all around the exterior of the coach, marking paint imperfections.
Some were very obvious to me and others I simply could not identify what the defect was, obviously far better trained eyes did give it a close look. I believe the factory guys understood the importance of this coach, but from previous comments have a ways to go to meet the competition. Did not go inside the coach. Certainly wish FOT the very best.

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #8 – January 15, 2015, 09:43:15 am

A while back , I spoke to "Biscuit" . Got on the subject of clear coat and he said all Foretravel's get (7) seven coats . What I notice is what I read , and have been told by the factory guys . What I don't like about it is that they used less than the top shelf Aqua Hot with a single electric heating element , and a 270 amp alternator instead of a (320 and the ISX ) , and the 1930s front look of Packard autos. $$$ must rule in the sales area . Brad Metzger

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #9 – January 15, 2015, 10:03:52 am

Quote from: Brad Metzger – January 15, 2015, 09:43:15 am

A while back , I spoke to "Biscuit" . Got on the subject of clear coat and he said all Foretravel's get (7) seven coats . What I notice is what I read , and have been told by the factory guys . What I don't like about it is that they used less than the top shelf Aqua Hot with a single electric heating element , and a 270 amp alternator instead of a (320 and the ISX ) , and the 1930s front look of Packard autos. $$$ must rule in the sales area . Brad Metzger

I was thinking Duesenberg, but whatever vintage auto is their inspiration, this puppy has too much cheap looking stick-on chrome for my tastes.

But then again, I'm clearly not in the target market. Heck, I'll be driving my coach to Q tomorrow and camping on the dirt without hookups.

I really wonder if anyone at FOT is reading this thread. It appears to me the company is operating open loop.

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #10 – January 15, 2015, 12:42:33 pm

Why reinvent the wheel? I bet the design from 2000 with some minor updates could be made and sold for under 500k. The design work is all done. Correct marketing and worthwhile updates and they could go back to production numbers they had before. Oh, and a dealer network!

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #11 – January 15, 2015, 01:14:53 pm

Normal procedure would be to amortize design costs & prototype setup & build costs over a projected number of units.

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #12 – January 15, 2015, 02:09:24 pm

Quote from: nitehawk – January 15, 2015, 01:14:53 pm

Normal procedure would be to amortize design costs & prototype setup & build costs over a projected number of units.

The drawings, tooling, etc are already there...thus there is no associated cost!

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #13 – January 15, 2015, 02:50:43 pm

Sorry Krush, I was referring to the Realm and its layout inside. Undoubtedly lots of new details and drawings/jigs/fixtures have to be made if new sizes or new positions/mounting to coach floor or walls. Everything has to be figured to minimize waste and maximize profit.

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #14 – January 15, 2015, 03:30:07 pm

Guys this turning into an interesting discussion howeveretravel we can talk about design and interiors forever but Foretravel must pay attention to the overall quality and the value a customer expects for there money. Clearly others have pointed out items like a cheap Auqua Hot etc. If we see these items others do to. Foretravel doesn't have to sell us we already love the product. Its the other buyers that they need to attract away from other brands if they are to grow the business. Every coach needs to be as near perfect when delivered and a coach going to a show for public view must as good or better. First impressions last a long time.

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #15 – January 15, 2015, 04:04:30 pm

The custom ft chassis is hand built in low volumes with no automation, or labor/material economies of scale.

That is why the Realm is built on a production commercial chassis. FT can't build the custom chassis for anything near what they can buy these commercial chassis. My guess is the nature of the relationship is that the dealer agreed to buy a minimum (10?) of these units so that FT could be insured of making enough on those 10 units to recover engineering costs.

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #16 – January 15, 2015, 05:20:37 pm

The Realm was designed, both interior and exterior specifications, Aquahot etc. by Motor Home Specialists. The quality of construction and paint is Foretravel. The limited amp of alternator power and and the lack of other chassis specs area all Sparten. I think if you don't like the design of front end or rear end the people you should be addressing is the dealer. The fact it doesn't have HWH components for drivability is a cost constraint that was considered and based on volume was rejected. This Realm relationship was developed by the dealer selling the IH Foretravel and their belief that they could sell a model similar to the Entegra Cornerstone. This they can do with the Realm. It was not ever designed to be Foretravels's entry coach. The Dealer is the largest Entegra dealer in the USA so they felt I assume, moving ten a year would not be a problem. They fronted all the development costs as well as the purchase of the chassis from Sparten. I find it amazing that no matter what Foretravel does some of you especially with older coaches, who have no intention of ever buying a new 2015 or eventually newer motor home have so many gripes with something that will alienate potential buyers, when you have no vested interest in the bad press.

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #17 – January 15, 2015, 05:35:47 pm

Quote from: esaulten – January 15, 2015, 05:20:37 pm

I find it amazing that no matter what Foretravel does some of you especially with older coaches, who have no intention of ever buying a new 2015 or eventually newer motor home have so many gripes with something that will alienate potential buyers, when you have no vested interest in the bad press.

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #18 – January 15, 2015, 05:36:19 pm

Quote from: esaulten – January 15, 2015, 05:20:37 pm

I find it amazing that no matter what Foretravel does some of you especially with older coaches, who have no intention of ever buying a new 2015 or eventually newer motor home have so many gripes with something that will alienate potential buyers, when you have no vested interest in the bad press.

There are many of us with "older" coaches who would buy a newer coach if they met our stated wants/needs. At the moment, what's being built doesn't. We, and others active here, personally represent a large portion of the forum who will likely own multiple additional coaches in our RVing lifetime and are, at present, an untapped market because we haven't found a newer coach of any brand that can compare to what is now a decade-or-more older FT. And yes, we do look fairly actively at what's out there.

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #19 – January 15, 2015, 05:50:54 pm

I'm sorry that's simply not true the same members on this forum bash Foretravel at every opportunity. I did not say that they were not capable of buying a new coach I stated they simply would never buy one. look at the remarks not on this post but on countless others. I detect a large amount of animosity that I cant understand that always shows up. $25 increase as example. That increase is miniscule to the over all cost of operating a motor home, but it was a tab of over 7 pages. If they want pricing like 1999-2003 with like quality it doesn't nor will it ever again. I have owned and bought 4 brand new Foretravels and each was better than the last. I will not be buying another due to my age and life circumstances. However I will always support the parent company and when I have a gripe I send an e-mail to Lyle who does answer me personally. Spreading the family's dirty linen justly or unjustly on the internet is not proper or fair to any company. That's my opinion and I know what that is worth but its still mine as your is still yours and just as valid as mine.

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #20 – January 15, 2015, 06:03:14 pm

Quote

I find it amazing that no matter what Foretravel does some of you especially with older coaches, who have no intention of ever buying a new 2015 or eventually newer motor home have so many gripes with something that will alienate potential buyers, when you have no vested interest in the bad press.

How do you know what we will be doing should something come along that interests us??
I for one am always looking every day, in fact at not only FT but Newell and Prevost so the Realm price does not bother me, but, if quality is not there then "bye bye".
There is quality and care in every make and value and if it does not meet my level for the money I will say so. I have only seen pictures of it but the front end does not attract me at all, looks like any SOB, so that is a negative start for me. If M H S reckon they can sell them then good on them and FT too, but I see no other reason we cannot critique them if we wish!
I would suggest that you both not write on Forum as nothing seems to make you happy with what the majority of this Forum say's.
Would it not be funny if your coach breaks down somewere and for some reason you do not get an instant reply from J T on what to do, and a Forum member comes to your rescue right away and without the $25 premium fee!!
Just my opinion again.
JohnH

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #21 – January 15, 2015, 06:20:36 pm

The hallmark of this forum is the open exchange of ideas and information on our common interest, Foretravel RVs. I know that it is not always favorable to FT but it is the members opinion or a fact and there is much more that is favorable. As to some of the negatives, I think there is much more positive then negative posted overall by a large margin. I believe that FT has moved away from the existing installed base of motorhomes with their drive to stay in business. That is what all business do but they also hear the comments on here for a smaller cheaper motorhome and as a result they put out a survey in the motorcader magazine that we just received.

I know that I will not be buying an IH. It is too tall for the east coast and that means they are not producing a coach for me. I had a friend who owned a U320 and was looking for a new coach and got an Entegra and another long time owner, two actually, bought bus conversions. That tells me that FT is leaving its older installed owner base behind. The realm is a speed coach that they are now selling at the factory as well as at MHS but time will tell if it is successful.

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #22 – January 15, 2015, 06:37:00 pm

Quote from: John Haygarth – January 15, 2015, 06:03:14 pm

Would it not be funny if your coach breaks down somewere and for some reason you do not get an instant reply from J T on what to do, and a Forum member comes to your rescue right away and without the $25 premium fee!!
Just my opinion again.
JohnH

The poster's coach is a 2008 model. That means that the chance of receiving an answer to request for help is almost non existent. Why? Because there are few members that have a coach newer than a 2005. The newer coaches have systems far different from the older coaches. Just my opinion.

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #23 – January 15, 2015, 06:40:53 pm

Quote from: John Haygarth – January 15, 2015, 06:03:14 pm

I would suggest that you both not write on Forum as nothing seems to make you happy with what the majority of this Forum say's.
JohnH

I would like to point out that the poster has been a ForeForum member since 2004.

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #24 – January 15, 2015, 07:00:41 pm

Hatteras Yachts followed the same path as Foretravel--they stopped producing smaller boats that were under 1.5 to 2mil. It eventually hurt them hard. They then started either bought or merged with Cabo boats to make boats in the 45' range ago...and now under new ownership are making a 45' (looks to be a Cabo badged as a Hatteras).

Going after big money is great. The margins may be better, but the volume isn't there. It's amazing how companies just ignore what made them a strong company in the first place. The SOB's sell lots of units because they are cheaper and have a strong dealer network. It is what it is, but I still don't understand the risk in doing a run of traditional 2000 style FT's. All the costs are variable...no new tooling or design work would have to be done.

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