Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Topic: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show (Read 3183 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #50 – January 16, 2015, 09:41:51 am

For those whom have not heard this story, I would like to share it with you.

Before Lyle Reed and his team purchased Foretravel, Mr. Reed had purchased a Foretravel. He traveled around the country in the Foretravel rather than flying around in airplanes.

Later on, Mr. Reed and team purchased Foretravel. Some time later, Mr. Reed and some Foretravel managers were taking a trip in a new Foretravel ( I forget the model they were traveling in). One of the Foretravel employees asked Mr. Reed if he thought it was about time for him (Reed) to drive a Foretravel. He did.

The story is that all the time that Mr. Reed was traveling around the country in his Foretravel, He never drove it. He had a driver.

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #51 – January 16, 2015, 10:05:20 am

I personally find this topic has degraded to no more than a gripe session. Here is the truth - if the current owners did not buy the company, then Foretravel would not exist today. Go ahead and slam the company on this forum. It only shows the little support some members of this forum have for the company. I wonder why we do not follow the old saying - if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all. If the new product line is not for you, lets not slam it to the ground.

Bob

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #52 – January 16, 2015, 10:10:49 am

Quote from: ltg – January 16, 2015, 09:27:21 am

I believe that is what the current owners are trying to maintain with the new ih45.

I may be wrong, but I believe that the Nimbus is the entry level coach. I know that the Nimbus was still being built as recently as 2013.

I hope that the Realm is financially successful. If so, it may provide the support necessary for the company to continue with the current strategy.

We also absolutely hope that Foretravel can be successful in the long run, and it may well be that producing a variety of specialized products for various markets is the appropriate way to generate cash flow. My concern is that the Realm "dilutes" the Foretravel name and therefore should not wear the Foretravel label.

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #53 – January 16, 2015, 10:15:23 am

Quote from: bobnkathy – January 16, 2015, 10:05:20 am

I personally find this topic has degraded to no more than a gripe session. Here is the truth - if the current owners did not buy the company, then Foretravel would not exist today. Go ahead and slam the company on this forum. It only shows the little support some members of this forum have for the company. I wonder why we do not follow the old saying - if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all. If the new product line is not for you, lets not slam it to the ground.

It is important to realize that if the company makes the wrong decisions today, then it will not exist in a few years. Many of the comments here are not "gripes." Rather, they are intended (I believe) as suggestions regarding how the company can make the right decisions. The company should be wise enough to listen and appreciate the feedback from those who truly love the products the company has produced over the years.

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #54 – January 16, 2015, 10:25:33 am

Quote from: D.J. Osborn – January 16, 2015, 10:15:23 am

The company should be wise enough to listen and appreciate the feedback from those who truly love the products the company has produced over the years.

I believe the company does listen and appreciate the feedback from those who love the products.

Company representatives (Mr. Reed, and other top management) were present and talked at both the 2014 Grandvention and the 2014 Ladies Driving School. As John S has said many times, FOT Management is listening and trying to do right by Foretravel owners.

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #55 – January 16, 2015, 11:20:48 am

Foretravel has had old trade in inventory and new production cash flow issues several times. long ago Don Carter who was a dealer in Kansas for them bought their entire inventory new and used to save them. 30+ years ago.

Spartan has done a nice job of marketing their brand. so their is a certain amount of product already built it.

the spread air bag suspension and the semi monocoque structure that were so far ahead of the rest of the industry and powered so many sales were diluted by the independent front suspension and the added center frame rails needed for the structures support of multiple slide outs.

originally the IFS drove poorly. Active Air fixed that. a tag axle in the rear seems to have added needed stability to the entire coach versus a non tag inboard mounted air suspension design.

no chassis builder will put the air bags in line with the tires. too much liability.

the other design unique to the unihome/unicoach was the ability to mount the steering box on the spread chassis not on the frame rail. the long pittman arm decreased or eliminated the "bump" steer that mounting the steering box on the frame caused with a straight front axle.

IFS fixed that issue.

other than the rear airbags being spread the unihomes original design is not needed as much anymore for the structural strength and driveability.

Ah. one large issue is the longer length necessary to add the storage lost inside and underneath with the tag and multi slides space loss.

50% or so storage loss on similar length multi slide and tag axled coaches is what I have seen personally and has been mentioned here.

industry is selling to the DW's to a larger extent and the boys are supposed to be smart enough to figure out all the technical stuff.

the laminated fiberglass side wall is a large advantage if sold properly. dealer will not hard sell that as any other brand they sell then is inferior.

factory can promote that difference only IMO.

hard to be different enough anymore for foretravel and the club advantages have been diluted. the clubs members being friends after meeting has been replaced by Facebook for a lot of the younger folks.

they gather around the electronic campfire as it were.

heck I am not a front door fan. where does that leave me?

time and technology marches on.

MHS did not need foretravel but having a texas manufacturer for a texas sales place helps the customer who has to go to the factory to see how they make their coach.

customers get lost some times going a long way to a distant factory and slip and fall and buy something else at a dealer or factory they just stopped at to look on the way.

better to keep them in a closer circle.

where you want to rv and what comfort level you are expecting and how much storage you need and how much length you are willing to horse around are a bigger part of the buying decision anymore.

no one, but maybe a few of us here would ask "are slides necessary?" for my uses, no....

my 2 cents.

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #56 – January 16, 2015, 11:35:37 am

quote"I believe the company does listen and appreciate the feedback from those who love the products." end quote from LTG.
Good and I am glad that the owners are now listening to present owners of all stripes in their quest to make FT quality and after market help the way it seems to have been before I bought into this Dream?
So, with that said I guess we all will be recieving an email from them asking for our personell ideas on the way they should go and any suggestions what to do. This may seem to be a stupid comment for some but surely this would be a way to get started and listen to owners ideas.?
There is a guy here in Canada and his name is Jimmy Patterson who started with a car lot in Vancouver and is now the richest man in Canada worth Billions. He owns dozens of companies and is in his late 80s now BUT he still goes to his businesses unanounced and sits down and talks to staff and asks for ideas. He is always involved with the building of new properties (he owns one of Canadas largest food retail outfits too) and was at our local store just recently because one of the staff thought the colour of the floor was wrong. He came himself the 250miles to look at it and said he actually liked the fresh look so it stayed. The store is open and booming compared to before change over. He did not want a decision by any one else as he is involved with every facet of it and responsible for the end result. Not one negative comment has ever been filed against him that I know of because he is of the old school and is all HANDS ON and wants the public to like what he does. He said "why spend all that money if the public do not like what you are doing before it is done"?
Now if some others followed the same rules they may be successful too.
JohnH

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #57 – January 16, 2015, 11:49:28 am

Foretravel management is receiving input and ideas from Foreforum members. There were 13 Fofums at the 2014 Grandvention in Shawnee, Oklahoma and 11 Fofums at the 2014 Foretravel Driving School. As I recall, all (if not all, almost all) provided input at the question and answer meetings.

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #58 – January 16, 2015, 02:16:03 pm

Quote from: jy001 – January 16, 2015, 09:39:11 am

This is all discouraging for me. My wife and I are in our mid 50's. We are semi-retired and we plan to buy a coach in the next year or two to fully retire. We've always camped...as backpackers then tent camping then a popup when the kids arrived. Life got busy and we last this lifestyle behind, knowing we'd full time at some point.

We never considered a motorhome until I found this forum. We don't like shiny and sparkly and fell in love with the classic old school design that Foretravel features. I'll take solid wood over laminate any time.

The passion these classic coaches inspires is awesome. The support this forum offers is amazing. Our research helped us decide that. 36-38 foot 1998-2002 320 would be perfect for us.
I just hope foretravel support and parts availability continues or we will be back at the drawing board.

Realistically we need this support for another 20 years in order for this to make sense for us.

I think you are safe, where there is interest and passion there is support

. While there are parts for older coaches, and even not so old, that may no longer available, folks are very willing to share what they have done to get around those issues. Sometimes it is a replacement part, sometimes its how to fix what you have, sometimes its a bit more involved. In the end there is help to keep you moving down the road.

Don't let the fact that we all know what's best for ForeTravel and like to argue about it discourage you. Sometimes criticism can be worded better or received better, in the end we are all trying to convey our thoughts. And of course there is always a fringe element on either end of a discussion, that's great for the added spice !

You know there are folks who don't come here much since all we do is bash foretravel, and to balance that point of view, there are those that don't come here much because you can't say anything bad about foretravel ... also ... you can't post about getting work done at any place other than foretravel vs all they talk about is not getting work done at foretravel ... Oh and foretravel monitors all the posts and email vs foretravel needs to monitor the forum and reply back to all questions. Yes I have the notes, a happy, yet often odd, balance. I feel overall most everyone gets it, there is no hidden ajenda, well other than to get more folks in foretravels because we love them, new, old, whatever and help them enjoy the ride.

Just because foretravel is not currently building a coach that meets someones needs does not mean they can not post about it, and if they are building one that meets your needs does not mean others should go away. Even the no sliders vs sliders or GV vs Bus can get along.

Also to note "the management" has been favorable about the forum. They have noted it has helped build / extend the following, brought people to the mother ship for various things (service/parts/remod/etc), help reduce some aspects of support, and a couple of other positives that they conveyed on one of our visits. @John S has had more discussions in that regard. Of course every rose has some thorns that come with them, and they have tried to address some cough "bashing", where they can, to improve, such as the tech sign off that was put in to place in service, etc.

Enough typing for now, I'm behind on my daily error log check !

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #59 – January 16, 2015, 03:25:38 pm

Just some thoughts.

Realm is 13' 3" WITHOUT satellite dish. Interstate is mostly 14' Lots of trees lower than that.

Spec and appearance to the uninitiated is about the same as IH45.

Was impressed at how wonderful new coaches from Winnabago and the like looked. Almost as nice as Foretravel. (Don't open a draw or count the staples folks).

How to educate the wealthier masses to quality is the problem?

Would love to see a simple quality interior without all the bling. Would stand out amongst the rest. Have heard quite a few comments on overly busy interiors.

If only there was an updated Grand Villa made. I remember seeing a blue one that was custom made in 2002 (?) on here. Looked great.

Flash and dazzle brings 'em in. Quality brings 'em back.

Keith

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #60 – January 16, 2015, 04:21:31 pm

Quote from: jy001 – January 16, 2015, 09:39:11 am

This is all discouraging for me. My wife and I are in our mid 50's. We are semi-retired and we plan to buy a coach in the next year or two to fully retire. We've always camped...as backpackers then tent camping then a popup when the kids arrived. Life got busy and we last this lifestyle behind, knowing we'd full time at some point.

We never considered a motorhome until I found this forum. We don't like shiny and sparkly and fell in love with the classic old school design that Foretravel features. I'll take solid wood over laminate any time.

The passion these classic coaches inspires is awesome. The support this forum offers is amazing. Our research helped us decide that. 36-38 foot 1998-2002 320 would be perfect for us.
I just hope foretravel support and parts availability continues or we will be back at the drawing board.

Realistically we need this support for another 20 years in order for this to make sense for us.

Don't despair quite yet, don't know if you're a boater but there's kind of a parallel between Foretravels and a particular boat, the Bertram 31. Lots of these going on 50 year old fiberglass boats running around, many restored to better than new condition and doing hard service daily as charter vessels. There has never been another boat built that achieved the well deserved reputation of the Moppie. Performance, safety, handling and the elusive ability to raise fish came together in this design by C Raymond Hunt. Most of them have been re-engined, re-fuel tanked several times along with a steady diet of cosmetic repairs and enhancements, often by owners who can buy a new boat at any price. The Foretravels you are talking about were built pretty much as right as humanly possible. The body, frame, etc., are bulletproof, major collision would be the only dealbreaker in the event of no factory support. Everything Foretravel did on these coaches is built to last and this is proven. Engines, running gear, refrigerators, pumps, air conditioners....these are generic items and easily serviced anywhere. That quality is what inspires the passion that is occasionally whipped into flame, as on these pages.

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #61 – January 16, 2015, 04:32:45 pm

David, I was just quoting Lyle from Granvention two years ago. Those were the specific issues he quoted on why the custom FT chassis is expensive and drives up the cost of IH and Phoenix.
His words on their costs, not something I guessed at.

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #62 – January 16, 2015, 04:37:32 pm

Hmmm, not a lot of 15 year old quality coach manufacturers still around to support their coach for next 20 years. If that is a make or break in the deal, best not to bet on any manufacturer being around or desiring to support a product. I find the level of support by the factory on the early nineties FT's pretty amazing frankly.

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #63 – January 16, 2015, 04:45:32 pm

Hmm, may need to resign from forum soon, this continues to be tiresome to read about.
Till I walk a mile in managements shoes, I won't be second guessing them. Only industry tougher to make a living and sustain through ups and downs in economy MIGHT be light aviation.
Yup, room for improvement at FT and just about every other business out there. I am glad they are in business. If leadership is giving you grief and causing angst, perhaps consider a nice new or used Allegro bus.
First visit their owners and dealers and sample their quality and customer support feedback.
I always liked the adage "praise in public, correct in private."

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #64 – January 16, 2015, 04:54:01 pm

As this thread has drifted FAR from the "Realm" initial topic, It has been fascinating for me to read some of the history that has been shared about marketing, sales, engineering, capital and owner/management.
The fact that FT is still in business is a profound one. I'm not the only forum member who formerly had a Barth, for which any manufacturer "support" vanished almost twenty years ago. After the Barth, I had a Pleasure-Way Class B. That company, like Road Trek, has remarkably remained viable. They are responsive to owners -- even owners of old units. In particular, there is ONE individual at PW who is a wealth of knowledge, is patient, and is cooperative. It makes a WORLD of difference, particularly for those of us with lesser skills and mechanical background.
I've been in brand-specific user groups for the Barth, Pleasure-Way and now ForeTravel. The first and last are loaded with a vast amount of data and some otherwise-obscure resources/techniques. It gives me so much more peace of mind than if I were left to my own cluelessness (couldn't believe the iMac let me use that word ;^)

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #65 – January 16, 2015, 04:56:15 pm

Quote from: Tim Fiedler – January 16, 2015, 04:45:32 pm

Hmm, may need to resign from forum soon,

and this would benefit you (or anybody) in what way??

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #66 – January 16, 2015, 05:20:46 pm

Quote from: Tim Fiedler – January 16, 2015, 04:32:45 pm

David, I was just quoting Lyle from Granvention two years ago. Those were the specific issues he quoted on why the custom FT chassis is expensive and drives up the cost of IH and Phoenix.
His words on their costs, not something I guessed at.

I understand, but his statements do raise those questions in my mind . . . .

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #67 – January 16, 2015, 05:26:17 pm

I was talking to Greg Amys one day and we were discussing the price of tires as I needed new ones. I told him the price I got on my XZA3s and the FMCA rate. He said it was lower then the rate he pays. That is the issue with low volume and producing the whole chassis. I am thinking we will see more of the Spartan Chassis as time goes on. It allows them to produce a coach that can compete on price.

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #68 – January 16, 2015, 05:28:41 pm

I heard one of the salesman telling a guy they could get the Realm for $400K. I also noticed a lot of finish issues. The bathroom door was completely broken as well. Interior and exterior issues. The two coaches that wowed me were the American Eagle and the Newell. Especially that Newell. wow.

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #69 – January 16, 2015, 05:32:57 pm

....yeh the Newell just outside the exhibition hall had a very long line leading up to see it inside....the FT's (inside the hall) were kinda busy but not like that....

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #70 – January 16, 2015, 06:08:58 pm

I actually liked some aspects of the Realm. Now that we've had 1 year full time use in our 1999 much of the tile grout and even a few tiles are having problems. It's hard to say what the source of the issue is and if I should replace any subflooring or not. In places where the subflooring is exposed it seems rather solid so I think the tile just can't handle the wood flex.

Anyway, that doesn't matter. The point of the conversation was to note just how much tile was in all of these new coaches. It was a TON. All over the floors, up the walls, even ceilings of some. Entire shower was tile. CRAZY amounts of tile in all brands. I can't imagine what that will look like after the coach flexes a bit.

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #71 – January 16, 2015, 06:10:00 pm

Quote from: piku – January 16, 2015, 05:28:41 pm

two coaches that wowed me were the American Eagle and the Newell. Especially that

What was the price tag on that bad boy? A quick look on the Newell website shows prices ranging from 1.7-1.9M American dollars.

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #72 – January 16, 2015, 06:12:56 pm

The newell was 1.8M, a few of the Millenium Prevosts were around 2.2M. The American Eagle was $650,000. Foretravel has a LOT of competition in that coach. They went all out. I didn't pick it apart, but shopped as a normal uneducated person would. How nice does it "feel"? Same with the Allegro BUS of 2015. They "feel" like exceptionally nice coaches. Who knows what it's like to drive, own or crash them, but they "feel" nice.

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #73 – January 16, 2015, 06:16:53 pm

Not to mention weight

Re: Foretravel Realm at Tampa rv show

Reply #74 – January 16, 2015, 06:21:14 pm

Quote from: piku – January 16, 2015, 06:08:58 pm

Anyway, that doesn't matter. The point of the conversation was to note just how much tile was in all of these new coaches. It was a TON. All over the floors, up the walls, even ceilings of some. Entire shower was tile. CRAZY amounts of tile in all brands. I can't imagine what that will look like after the coach flexes a bit.

Absurd idea to put unreinforced masonry (tile) in a coach. Unless you pour a reinforced concrete subfloor first, which I suppose somebody is thinking about. Flame suit on, but anything is better than talking about that other thing.

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