Installation of Automotion Shades

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Installation of Automotion Shades

December 04, 2015, 06:22:42 pm

Quote from: Bob Thomas – September 29, 2014, 09:12:38 pm

Today I completed the installation of the new Automotion shades.

Bob,

This message from you was about a year ago. I also purchased Automotion shades to install in our Foretravel, but have not been able to find any instructions. I suspect they may prefer for you to hire an "expert," but it looks like it should be straight forward. The "salesman" wanted a coach buck to install them, but said I should be able to DIY them and save the money.

Did you get any instructions with your shades? Were you able to find instructions on line anywhere? The factory (in Canada) does not seem to want to talk to end-users Once they are installed, you will also need some kind of user instructions for setting things like speed of return and where to stop the shade, but I got nada.

Let's start with something simple, and rather basic. I bought ten double shades. They came with 2, 3, or 4 clips, depending on how wide the window was. The clips are to be mounted at the top, and the shade frame snaps into it.

The clip only has one slot for mounting; I had expected at least two screw holes. What kind of screws did you use, and is one screw really enough to support the shade clips?

How far should the end clips be from the ends of the shade assembly? When I called the "salesman," all he told me was a finger width from the wall. I assume this was so you could get your finger up there (if it would fit) to release the clips. If there are 3 clips, it is obvious that the center one should be in the center, but how far from the ends to provide adequate support for the assembly?

I will have more questions about the operation procedures later, but time is running out. My DW has informed me that my Procrastination Pass has run out.

To that end, anyone who has experience installing these is invited, nay encouraged, to spill the beans.

Thank you,

Trent

Re: Installation of Automotion Shades

Reply #1 – December 04, 2015, 07:36:54 pm

I Googled Automotion Shades and copied this from the website for "end users"

Mission Statement
Auto-Motion Shade Inc. is committed to supplying the highest quality shading systems available on the market. This is accomplished by creating added value through continuous product improvement, through the development of a knowledgeable team of highly skilled individuals, and through the highest level of customer service.

Seems if they don't want to talk to you, you should remind them of there Mission Statement.

Re: Installation of Automotion Shades

Reply #2 – December 04, 2015, 10:23:08 pm

Greg,

Thanks, I'll do just that!

Trent

Re: Installation of Automotion Shades

Reply #3 – December 05, 2015, 01:38:56 pm

Trent,
Dave & LJ's in Woodland, WA carry and install Automotion shades. They might be able to provide you with some help. Phone: (360) 225-7700.
Dick

Re: Installation of Automotion Shades

Reply #4 – December 05, 2015, 02:01:25 pm

Dick,

Thanks. I will call them and Automotion Shades next week.

Trent

Re: Installation of Automotion Shades

Reply #5 – December 05, 2015, 08:40:25 pm

Does this help? Our MCD shaded have a mounting clip with two inches of the end. The windshield shade had five clips.

Re: Installation of Automotion Shades

Reply #6 – December 05, 2015, 10:41:37 pm

Roger,

I found that one earlier today, but it is totally different from mine. I have 2, 3, or 4 clips that attach to the top with (apparently) one screw. You install them like day/night shade or pleated shade brackets for the home. Then you snap the blind assembly into the clips.

The installation instructions you found are using many more clips that are mounted to the shade assembly rail and then each of those is screwed into the top with two screws in each clip. It would appear to me MUCH stronger than the clips I have. Maybe they are an "upgrade" from discovering that the other clips were not strong enough. It would definitely be a pain removing them since it appears you would have to remove EVERY one of those screws to remove the shade.

Will ask the factory about those when I call them this week.

Thanks for finding them and sharing. (When I found them, I thought I had found the Holy Grail until I looked at them closely.)

I also found the user manual for Automotion Shades, which I will upload this weekend. It spells out how to make the user adjustments for the height and speed of the shades.

Trent

Re: Installation of Automotion Shades

Reply #7 – December 05, 2015, 11:20:32 pm

Then it sounds just like the clips the MCD shade use. I made wooden blocks about 1" thick to space the clip location bown from the horizontal panel in front of the vertical valance. This gave me clearance to the speakers in the horizontal panel. I didn't wnat to remove them. Five clips altogether.

MCD Windshield shades self install

The picture shows the MCD shade from above, five clips. Two closer to each end, one in the middle.

Re: Installation of Automotion Shades

Reply #8 – December 06, 2015, 02:13:15 am

Roger,

Those clips look just like mine, one slot in the center. What did you use to install them? I thought some kind of large flat head (button) screw. I have not yet looked to see what the material is at the top. I am a little concerned about the strength of the clips. I placed one on the frame, and had to slide it to the end to get it off. It will take a LOT of push to release it, which is why I was concerned about only using one screw to mount them. I guess you have to in order to let them spring enough to release when you push up on them.

Instead of one piece, my windshield has two shades that come together near the center. I thought of using a fluted cherry pillar to match the rest of the wood trim, installed in a T-fashion similar to what Barry (or somebody) did on an install. At first I was concerned about that wide of a piece down the center of the windshield until I looked at it. The windshield has the center strip plus a Velcro strip on either side of it, so it will not be any wider. I think Barry (?) designed his to only be installed when he dropped the blinds, but I am not sure.

The speakers do make the windshield install problematic, although it would solve the problem with one of my grills refusing to stay attached. I'm not sure they are even in use anymore. the PO decided he didn't like the "cheap" Bose speakers and installed some cheaper Sony cube types at the corners.

Like everything in life, someday we will look at these "impossible" installation hiccups as the good ol' days.

Thanks for continuing to share with the rest of us,

Trent

Re: Installation of Automotion Shades

Reply #9 – December 06, 2015, 07:32:41 am

Trent,

I have no help on installation, but since you asked I'll offer ideas on how I would select fasteners.

I like coarse or deep thread screws with a round head when not countersunk. Truss head or washer head if you can find them, especially if the bracket is plastic.

Use the largest diameter screw the slot will allow. If the slot is too narrow for a #8 or preferably a #10 screw and if I did not think I'd need the adjustment the slot will allow, I'd consider drilling a hole at the center of the slot. Or I might use 2 screws in the slot if I could separate them by at least 4x their diameter.

I'd use a screw length which would allow penetraion equal to 7x it's diameter if into hardwood and 10 to 12x diameter if into softwood or plywood. Longer is okay, but won't add much to holding power.

After selecting a screw, I'd get a drill bit for drilling pilot holes for screws. I'd use a bit sized at 90% of the core diameter if into hardwood and 70% if into softwood. Core diameter being the diameter of the screw "without threads". Using smaller or no pilot hole will cause splitting or tearing of wood and will reduce holding power, more so in hardwood.

If into hardwood, I might soap the threads and drive them to just snug.

That's the long version. Short version: try a #10 x 3/4" or 1" coarse thread round head screw into a 3/32" pilot hole and see if that seems sturdy.

Disclaimer: I am not an engineer but I did boondock at a Holiday Inn Express last night...

Re: Installation of Automotion Shades

Reply #10 – December 06, 2015, 08:32:09 am

This may sound like a dumb idea, But youtube has several videos of these being installed. You might pick up an idea or two.

Re: Installation of Automotion Shades

Reply #11 – December 06, 2015, 09:32:29 am

Trent, Rich has the tight idea. The horizontal part (the bottom of the front overhead cabinets) was 3/4" plywood. Ther is some foam and vinyl covering so a 1" screw should work fine. If you add a spacer like I did (say 1") add that to the length of the screw length.

Look at how the clips fit onto the rail. There should be space between the clip and the rail for the screw head. On mine I don't think a round head screw would have fit. I probably used #8 or #10 pan head sheet metal screws into the plywood. If I used a pilot hole it was small, just to help position the screw. I more likely used an awl to get a hole position and starter place established. In hardwood as Rich suggests, predrill an appropriate starter hole.

The clips on mine had a hook on one end that engaged the track. On the other end there was a flange that flared out . To put the track in put the track into the hook side of the clip and rotate the track up into the other side of the clip. To get it out you need a screwdriver or a small prybar to push on the flange to get the track loose. On my installation, the flange side was forward.i woukd wuess on iny other inside windows it would be towards the inside. I left at least 1/4", maybe more, between the vertical valence and the clips.

My suggestion would be to start with one that is easy, where you have good access. The windshield one was challenging.

Re: Installation of Automotion Shades

Reply #12 – December 11, 2015, 09:56:08 pm

Finally getting started on this project. Decided to start with the passenger-side bedroom window, as that is the one the RVFogDr removed to fix one of my snakes. I had him leave the day/night shade off to simplify my Automotion shade installation.

After I removed the wood valence and the bedroom drapes, I am looking at the bottom of the upper cabinets. This is the same panel in which the puck lights are installed. I removed one of the puck lights to check the thickness of the wood. It turns out that the bottom panel is a falsie, which is only about 3/16" thick. The real bottom of the cabinets is about 3/4" above that. I do not know how thick that is, but probably at least 3/4".

If the falsie is strong enough, I can use some #8 x 1/2" lath screws. These have a very wide (and shallow) head which would be good for the shade bracket. They are shallow enough not to interfere with the top of the shade assembly. These screws are perfect *if* that falsie is strong enough to hold them. If it were hardwood, it might, but this falsie appears to have a cherry veneer with a soft wood core (maybe plywood?).

the shade for this window has four brackets. My big concern is the effect of the constant weight of the shade assembly. Combined with the added pressure when pushing up on the bracket flanges and pulling the shade assembly probably puts a lot of stress on that falsie (just realized I have used that word a lot here).

If that is not strong enough, then I will have to use screws that are long enough to pass through the falsie and screw into the real bottom of the upper cabinets. Anybody faced this dilemma before? If it were your installation, would you try using the shorter screws, or just plan to put a bigger hole in the falsie and hold with the real cabinet bottom. That might also be a problem by not being able to put a spacer between the two.

I guess I could try the shorter screws and go with the longer ones if I find they are not strong enough. That would certainly be the easiest installation. I suspect many *have* been installed that way and might be waiting for the right time to let go. It is not a problem for the puck lights, because they are very light and only have to overcome gravity.

This project is not getting off to a good start. Anybody have any suggestions? (FTR, the dealer wanted $1000 to install them.)

Thanks for any advice,

Trent

Re: Installation of Automotion Shades

Reply #13 – December 11, 2015, 10:44:41 pm

I don't know if this will give you any comfort, but I have the double roller shades through out and in the bedroom I just used a #8 flat head screw in the thin bottom of the overhead cabinet. I have about 28 hundred miles on them and they are still snug and looking good.

Re: Installation of Automotion Shades

Reply #14 – December 11, 2015, 11:01:17 pm

Quote from: Ronb – December 11, 2015, 10:44:41 pm

I don't know if this will give you any comfort,

Ron,

I love ya, man!

Trent

Re: Installation of Automotion Shades

Reply #15 – December 11, 2015, 11:34:26 pm

Trent, here is a good chance to find out how things are built in your FT. The cabinet framing is 3/4". The cabinet bottom is 6mm (a bit under 1/4"). Inside of the cabinet is the back side, the two end panels and the bottom. As I recall, in in mine. The ends come out first, on end might not come out. Then 4-6 screws in the carpeted covered bottom and it will lift up. The back is held on with velcro along the top and by the bottom shelf on the bottom. The sequence might be different on yours but once you figure it out it is the same in all of the cabinets. Lots of wires run through this cavity in my coach. The screws are 5/8-3/4" long square drive. I try to remember to mark the locations of the screw holes in the carpet with a piece of blue painters tape. This takes some time for the first one or two but then it goes pretty fast. I have taken the insides of almost every cabinet apart at least once. I have added door actuated LED lights and replaced under cabinet lights with LED lights

So if you are concerned about the screws holding the shades in the thin plywood you could add a strip 3/4" wood or 1/2" plywood in the cavity. A couple drops of glue or a few pieces of double stick carpet tape (very thin) will hold the strip in place while mounting the shades. It is pretty easy to over tighten screws in thin plywood.

This should be stronger and more durable than any sort if insertable or expandable anchor in a thin plywood panel.

The only other way to do this is with a thin wall Toggler brand anchor. These should work OK.

TOGGLER Toggle TA Hollow-Door Anchor with Screws, Polypropylene, Made in US,...

These need a 5/16" hole and a 1/2" clearance behind the panel. These will mean you don't have to remove the bottom panel but you won't know what is in there either. But less time consuming disassemblt and reassembly.

However you do it a little more fussing around to get job done right especially when no one can see it is a job that will work and you will rest easy.

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: Installation of Automotion Shades

Reply #16 – December 12, 2015, 03:11:25 am

Roger,

You are talking about adding the wood strip in the area above the location for the shade bracket screws, right?

That should be straight forward since there are so many puck light holes to give me additional access for positioning the wood strip. But I suspect you are suggesting I remove the cabinet bottom in order to do it right. I guess that the important thing is to get the wood strip in there for the shade bracket screws to anchor into, and not just into my "falsie." which sounds like what Ron did. So far, he seems happy with the installation.

It would be helpful if we could hear from anyone else who has installed these. It sounds like this particular part of the installation would be essentially the same for installation of MCD shades. Come on you Wallflowers and Lurkers; speak up and earn your keep!

Thanks,

Trent

Re: Installation of Automotion Shades

Reply #17 – December 12, 2015, 09:40:54 am

Trent, I would put the pieces of wood in as Rogr suggests, piece of mind and easy to do too. Figure out were the screws will be going and centre a 1" wide by full length piece and just glue it on. Removing that cabinet bottom alo gives you access to any wires you do not want to screw into.
JohnH

Re: Installation of Automotion Shades

Reply #18 – December 12, 2015, 09:42:06 am

Trent, yes I am suggesting lifting up the inside bottom and adding a wooden strip to the back side of the wooden cabinet bottom. Maybe two pieces that run the length of the cabinet. They might be easier to get in than just one piece. It is just my way of doing things. I have an endless supply of wood and tools to match. I like to do these things once and know they will be secure.you don't need a big piece just wide enough to make it easy to get the screws into without haveing to be too precise. Maybe an inch or inch and a half wide is plenty. I have lots of 3/8" and 1/2" Baltic birch plywood. Either of those would work, screws hold well in it. You can probably get some 1/2" x1-1/2" pine battens thatbwould works fine as well. 3/4" is more than you need but if that is what you can get then as longs as it is not thicker than the original framing it will be fine too.

The plastic clips should be OK if you decide to go that way.

Re: Installation of Automotion Shades

Reply #19 – December 12, 2015, 12:32:50 pm

Love to hear all the solutions you guys have found to use, and I often feel unworthy to all the super information here on the forum.

Not wanting to stop anyone from improving or upgrading and doing thing right. But when I took the PO installed MCD shades down to remove the side window to install my new refer, I found the clips and screws into just the very thin bottom wood veneer. But after 4 years, and 20K miles, everything is still hanging there, nothing has failed or fallen down, yet.

My DW often says I over think things, and she is too often spot on. Why just the other day, I looked into a cabinet and noticed I had mis-positioned a new support spacer for the new mircowave. Till then unnoticed, and I said I needed to redo the install. She suggested I refill the cabinet so I could not see the gap.

Re: Installation of Automotion Shades

Reply #20 – December 12, 2015, 01:29:29 pm

Isn't that the truth, Dave. Susan frequently has a great solution to a problem that I would not have thought of. It doesn't mean I will do it that way but it makes me consider things from another point of view. I'm glad to hear that small screws into that thin plywood are holding up well. That might just be OK. Maybe have to fix it later but that is then. One trick when screwing into thin plywood is to put a dab of carpenters glue on the screw threads and then screw it in snug. Works like Loctite.

Re: Installation of Automotion Shades

Reply #21 – December 12, 2015, 01:41:18 pm

Of course the correct sized pilot hole and not stripping it out with the cordless screw gun also help.

Re: Installation of Automotion Shades

Reply #22 – December 25, 2015, 01:33:35 am

Interim Project Update Report #1:

After hearing all the advice from the respondents, I proceeded with my AutoMotion Shade installation project. I began with the PS bedroom window.

I removed the wood valence by partially unscrewing the five square-drive (#2) screws until they were clear of the cabinet. (This was a tip I learned from watching the guys at RVFogDr when they removed and replaced them to remove the window; it keeps them in position without the risk of misplacing them, and speeds up the work.) I placed the valence on my workbench, aka bed, and then removed the curtains/drapes. BTW, the RVFogDr guys used electric screw guns (might have been impact drivers) but all of my work has been manual so far. I am not yet comfortable enough to turn that level of power onto this project; maybe manana.

I measured the PS bedroom shade and discovered that it was 3" too long!

What are the chances that the first one that I decided to install is the only one that is cut wrong? Why me? I ordered these (10 double roll shades) at the FMCA Rally last August in Madison WI. (The salesman came out and made the measurements to place the order; I received them from Canada in 3-4 weeks.) So, I went out out to Ducky and measured all of my valences. I then measured the shade assemblies. The PS bedroom shade, was, indeed, 3" too long, but the dining room shade was 3" too short! They had just been mislabeled. Another hurdle overcome.

The brackets are 7/8" wide and almost 2" long from the outside edge of the "hook" end to the end of the flange push-up thingy. The interior space between the hook and flange hook is almost 1 1/2". The shade frame is 1 5/8" wide. The spring steel brackets are almost 1/2" from the center bottom to the top of the push-up thingy. It takes a substantial force to click the shade frame into the brackets, and a real force to push the push-up thingy enough to release the frame bracket.

I decided to go with the #8 x 3/4" lath screws into the bottom of the 3/16" cabinet false bottom. My pilot hole chart for #8 wood screws said 3/32" for hardwood and 5/64" for softwood (11/64" shank hole). On the PS bedroom window, I made my pilot holes using a 5/64" bit. Two of the holes got real tight, but the other two were just firm. (Part of the problem may have been my inability to find my pin vice to hold it, so I used my fingers and thumb to hold the drill bit and turn it to make the holes. This was not optimum, so I tried using a small spring clip to hold the 1/16" bit on the other side; it didn't work either, so I was back to the finger method. I will find a better way for the rest of them.) On the DS bedroom window I used a 1/16" bit, which let all four screws install very tight. I will use the 1/16" bit for the rest of the bracket installations. I think I will also used Rogers idea of using a dab of glue to install the new screws.

The first shade frame was 54" wide. I installed the brackets 3" in from each end, and 16" apart for the interior brackets. The second shade was about 5" wider, so I made the pilot holes 4" from the ends and 17" apart for the others. The valences in the bedroom were about 5" deep, so I placed the pilot holes about 1 1/2" from the wall. That seemed to work out very good.

the next step was installing the PS roller shade assembly. The top of the assembly was too long to install it into all four of the brackets by myself. I wound up holding it to install into the two inner brackets first, and then the two outer brackets. This worked pretty good with one exception. The weight of the shade assembly was too much and the roller assembly came partially out of the lower (privacy shade) tube on one end. That happened when I installed both sides in the bedroom. It was a simple matter of pushing it back into place, but I felt stupid allowing it to happen the second time.

Maybe I will put some blue tape around the two bottom roller brackets before installing the rest of them.

If you are still with me, I have installed the first AutoMotion shade into the PS bedroom window location. All I have to do now is reinstall the valence, right? It will not fit! A look at the picture of the valence (the bedroom valence is on the left; the dining room valence on the right) will reveal the problem. the shade fits fine, but not the shade assembly frame. The problem is that added 3/4" block of wood at the top edge of the side extension. It is probably there to be used as a mounting block for a screw through the valence ends into the cabinet. The valences were only mounted using screws through the front block into the ceiling. With a different design, it might also help attach the ends to the front piece, but it is not. It is held on by 2 (sometimes 3) staples through it into the end panel. Removing it did not seem to have any impact on the integrity of the assembly and was "easy" to do. The DS side probably only needed one to be removed, but that would have required very precise location of the brackets, so I removed both to simplify the installation.

Okay, the bedroom shades are installed; two down, eight to go. I have now earned $200 of that $1,000 the dealer wanted to install them. I feel quite confident about my ability to install AutoMotion shades in the bedroom. Next will be the dining room and living room windows. Hey, I have been warned; I'm saving the windshield shades for last. But they will not be as easy as the first two. First of all, they have window sills and side panels. But wait, . . . there's more.

Look at that picture of the two valences again. The one on the right is from the dining room. The depth of them is about 2" less than the bedroom valences. That means that I have to put those 2" brackets and roller shade frames into a much tighter space. Not to mention the side panels and the window sill (which is probably not a problem itself). The side panels are simply mounted with one screw through the sill, and one through a right-angle bracket. They are not attached at the top. But remember the wood blocks I had to remove from the end pieces? I might face a similar problem with the side panels (actually the front face of them) because they will probably encroach into the header assembly area. It's just that I might have to cut part of the side assembly off to make room for them. (Wonder if that dealer will install the rest of them for $800?

Fortunately, I work real cheap and have over two months to "get 'er done."

I hope y'all can learn something from my reports. I know I am learning a lot as I continue the process. Wish this was the only project on my winter list.

If anyone has specific questions, or ongoing advice, fire away!

Y'all have a Merry Christmas!

Trent

Re: Installation of Automotion Shades

Reply #23 – December 25, 2015, 11:05:53 am

Trent, difference in depth of valances in picture is because the bedroom ones have drapes on top of old shades and living area ones do not. I cut the bedroom ones down to same as living ones when doing the replacement of material recently as we now do not have drapes in Bedroom, just D/N shades, makes room look slightly wider.
Some pics of what you did to install might make it a bit easier to understand what steps you did to install new blinds, and picture of them mounted.
JohnH

Re: Installation of Automotion Shades

Reply #24 – December 25, 2015, 11:35:00 am

John,

Thanks for the drapes explanation. I had not thought of them being the cause of the deeper valance (even though I did struggle some removing them - bottom line is remove the wood first). It sure did make the installation of the shades easier.

I like your idea of cutting them back, except for the old holes on the cabinet bottoms. Speaking of old holes, the four just above the window for the day shades are totally covered by the valence, as are the ones from the drapery rods. That leaves two from the old shade "bobbins" and two from the tie back mounts, that are not covered by anything. We are thinking of installing some kind of wall covering over the original upper wall covering. What we wind up doing will determine how I fill those holes.

Unfortunately, I was not smart enough to take in-process pictures on the first two, but will on the dining room window, which is more typical of most of the shade installations in the coach. I could take "finished" pictures of the two bedroom windows if anyone is interested.

This is a very doable DIY project. I feel much more confident in the quality of my work than some random installer. There is a definite learning curve in the process, but it is a straight forward project. (Glad I don't have to delineate my hourly rate, but I expect that each one will make the next one easier.) Really looking forward to that windshield . . . NOT.

Trent

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