Engine hatch changes by extreme- advantage?

Topic: Engine hatch changes by extreme- advantage? (Read 1629 times) previous topic - next topic

Engine hatch changes by extreme- advantage?

August 28, 2016, 06:27:54 pm

I noticed some U320 owners have had engine hatch redesigned by Extreme

Is there a thread that explains advantages to doing so? (Or comments).

Does it change ladder access to roof?

Re: Engine hatch changes by extreme- advantage?

Reply #1 – August 28, 2016, 11:09:52 pm

Dan,

Rance at Extreme is an experienced expert at getting rid of the very heavy engine door. Eliminates door falling on the back of a worker and the strength needed to lift the original door.

Rance splits the door with the bottom foot or so separated so it can stay on coach when the upper part is opened. This also has the advantage of never having to adjust hitch when opening door.

The upper part can be split vertically with side hinged. We chose the other mod where our upper part is one-piece and hinged on the top and held up with air struts. Also the door was also made lighter by removing inside material that was needed to support the original structure.

One of the best mods we have made.

Many years before changing our engine door, we always used an aluminum "A" ladder bungeed to rear ladder so we did not have to rely on the questionable strength of the ladder fasteners. We climbed our "A" ladder as high as we could before transferring to upper RV ladder to climb to the roof. When we painted 5 years ago, the original ladder was removed with everything else, and to our surprise almost all of the ladder's steel grab-fasteners located inside the ladder were rusted, so we were correct in using our "A" ladder. Only a few fasteners supported our weight when on the ladder steps.

That being said, when our door was split and hinged, the bottom half of the roof ladder was permanently removed, mainly due to the lighter door and conflict with upper hinging. We now have to use our "A" ladder to reach the reinstalled (with new grab-inserts) upper ladder. So nothing has changed for our regular climbs to the roof to access roof pod, clean roof and solar panels.

And it reduces the attraction of a stranger wanting to climb to the roof.

Re: Engine hatch changes by extreme- advantage?

Reply #2 – August 29, 2016, 06:47:15 am

Barry and Cindy covered it pretty well, and we had the same reason for the conversion

1) You don't have to move the tow bar to open the rear hatch. The original interfered with our KarGard II tow protector even after we added an extension to the towbar shank so we couldn't open the engine bay with the car attached (and had to drop the tow bar from the stowed position when it wasn't) We always worried about a tech not knowing this and damaging the door trying to open or close it, so we always took the tow bar off when we went in for service.

2) No worries about heavy door being properly latch above your head/back when working on the coach

3) Reduced weight makes it easier to deal with the door

Lower ladder is removed; we use our stepladder to get onto the upper portion.

Lower position is pinned into place and comes out (I think it tilts out of the way; I wasn't at the back of the coach when Steve and Rance went over all the details) so you can access the lower things like the air dryer. Fluid checks, adds, and many maintenance items can be done with just the upper part open.

When we had our conversion done (this past April), Xtreme indicated they prefer not to do the vertical split, open to the side style doors anymore. I believe this is because you need more room to swing the doors open, plus the hinges are under more stress. I think ours was the first 02-05 done since Rance had to do some prototyping to get the pivot point just right for the upper part.

Re: Engine hatch changes by extreme- advantage?

Reply #3 – August 29, 2016, 08:54:46 am

Cost ?

Re: Engine hatch changes by extreme- advantage?

Reply #4 – August 29, 2016, 09:29:21 am

Quote from: toyman – August 29, 2016, 08:54:46 am

Cost ?

Our quote was 40 hours plus $400 in materials.

Our actual bill has a bunch of other stuff on it (like our side cameras), but figure around $4600 plus tax for just the engine bay conversion.

Re: Engine hatch changes by extreme- advantage?

Reply #5 – August 29, 2016, 11:58:59 am

Quote from: Michelle – August 29, 2016, 06:47:15 am

Barry and Cindy covered it pretty well, and we had the same reason for the conversion Xtreme indicated they prefer not to do the vertical split, open to the side style doors anymore. I believe this is because you need more room to swing the doors open, plus the hinges are under more stress

I saw a pic of Michelle & Steve's conversion, to kill for! Our GV is just as bad for acess + the dweeb latching door has "trash me" written all over it!

Re: Engine hatch changes by extreme- advantage?

Reply #6 – August 30, 2016, 12:52:03 pm

This is the conversion that James at Extreme did when he owned our coach. Note the missing ladder. He hates them as I believe he fell off one once. We use a separate ladder, much safer than the flimsy originals.

Keith

Re: Engine hatch changes by extreme- advantage?

Reply #7 – August 30, 2016, 01:05:05 pm

Quote from: Keith and Joyce – August 30, 2016, 12:52:03 pm

Note the missing ladder. We use a separate ladder

Plus, the stern looks SO MUCH cleaner!

Re: Engine hatch changes by extreme- advantage?

Reply #8 – August 30, 2016, 01:21:03 pm

Quote from: Keith and Joyce – August 30, 2016, 12:52:03 pm

This is the conversion that James at Extreme did when he owned our coach. Note the missing ladder. He hates them as I believe he fell off one once. We use a separate ladder, much safer than the flimsy originals.

Keith

What type of " separate ladder " would that be that safely goes to the top of the coach and still stores below. My guess is a collapsing ladder ?

Robert

Re: Engine hatch changes by extreme- advantage?

Reply #9 – August 30, 2016, 01:25:05 pm

Well, I for one will speak up for the original status quo. I don't mind the hatch at all. It takes just a little bit of muscle to raise and when full up, it is so far over center that I have a hard time imagining anything but gale force gusts of wind or major earthquake causing it to drop unexpectedly. A couple of well placed bungie cords can drop that to a near zero chance easily. Clearance issues with a tow bar is a consideration for many. We have an extension with minimal drop to accommodate a bike rack that makes the normal tow bar stowed position unworkable, so when the toad is unhooked and tow bar is on coach, I just strap the towbar to the horizontal part of the bike rack. I can open the hatch far enough with the bikes on to check the coolant overflow bottle level, and can open the hatch all the way by removing the bikes. I am not saying that the original design is superior to the Xtreme modification, just that I haven't found it to be a bothersome issue. At least not one worth $5K

Edit: I like having the ladder there. I just replaced some of the standoffs on the upper portion. Modified the lower portion long ago to eliminate the rusting star nut problem.

Re: Engine hatch changes by extreme- advantage?

Reply #10 – August 30, 2016, 01:29:11 pm

Quote from: Don & Tys (AKA acousticart) – August 30, 2016, 01:25:05 pm

I am not saying that the original design is superior to the Xtreme modification, just that I haven't found it to be a bothersome issue. At least not one worth $5K

I agree. So far, at least, I have seen no reason to consider changing the design.

Re: Engine hatch changes by extreme- advantage?

Reply #11 – August 30, 2016, 01:31:50 pm

Robert,

We tried a folding ladder that proved heavy and cumbersome to use so we got a 3 section extension ladder at Home Depot. I put some foam pipe insulation over it where it rests on the coach to protect the finish and stop it slipping. As it projects above the roof it's easy to get on & off of.

Werner 16 ft. Aluminum 3 Section Compact Extension Ladder with 225 lb. Load...

Keith

Re: Engine hatch changes by extreme- advantage?

Reply #12 – August 30, 2016, 01:34:17 pm

Little Giant folding ladder is what I use on my current coach. It is heavy, but super strong. Works as extension ladder, or as A frame ladder.

Little Giant Ladder

There are also paint protectors available for the ladder edges to rest against the coach.

Here is one in following link. I have a better product for that, but can't find it on the net right now.
Werner Extension Ladder Covers (2-Pack)-AC19-2 - The Home Depot

Quote from: Bob & Sue – August 30, 2016, 01:21:03 pm

What type of " separate ladder " would that be that safely goes to the top of the coach and still stores below. My guess is a collapsing ladder ?

Robert

Re: Engine hatch changes by extreme- advantage?

Reply #13 – August 30, 2016, 01:34:57 pm

Agree with Don, hatch seems to cam over at full extension and take quite a bit of force to un cam. then lowers about half way before having to push it down. Also I don't understand the issue with the factory ladder set up, mine feels very secure as long as the hatch is locked down before climbing.

Re: Engine hatch changes by extreme- advantage?

Reply #14 – August 30, 2016, 02:10:26 pm

I'm of the same mind as Don and Craneman.

Re: Engine hatch changes by extreme- advantage?

Reply #15 – August 30, 2016, 02:49:01 pm

Quote from: Don & Tys (AKA acousticart) – August 30, 2016, 01:25:05 pm

I just replaced some of the standoffs on the upper portion. Modified the lower portion long ago to eliminate the rusting star nut problem.

Don,

I backed into something on the way home from purchasing our Foretravel a couple of years ago. I removed all of the bottom section except the standoff locations. Those star nuts seem to be rusted through and I have a hard time getting a grip on them to unscrew them.

What was your secret to removing yours (maybe no rust)? Maybe it's a two-person job and I need to get Jean involved.

Any assistance or advice appreciated.

Thanks,

Trent

Re: Engine hatch changes by extreme- advantage?

Reply #16 – August 30, 2016, 03:40:31 pm

I wonder if the coaches came with the 3 piece rear door if extreme would be modifying to a one piece.

Re: Engine hatch changes by extreme- advantage?

Reply #17 – August 30, 2016, 03:58:49 pm

Quote from: craneman – August 30, 2016, 01:34:57 pm

Agree with Don, hatch seems to cam over at full extension

As I understand it, the original engine door conversion came about because an owner didn't realize the door hadn't latched and it came down on his back as he was checking fluids.

Quote from: craneman – August 30, 2016, 01:34:57 pm

Also I don't understand the issue with the factory ladder set up,

Factory ladder is rated at something like 225 lbs or slightly under If you look at the structure, the climber's weight is actually being borne solely by the screws that hold the plastic rung ends in.

As with anything, it comes down to personal preference and what projects are important to you. We had our conversion done for us, not anyone else, and it saddens me to read the negative comments directed at someone's choice of upgrades for their coach.

Re: Engine hatch changes by extreme- advantage?

Reply #18 – August 30, 2016, 04:31:56 pm

Modified the lower portion long ago to eliminate the rusting star nut problem.
[/quote]

Don..can you elaborate on modification for the lower portion

Thx

Hans

Re: Engine hatch changes by extreme- advantage?

Reply #19 – August 30, 2016, 04:34:12 pm

Quote from: John44 – August 30, 2016, 03:40:31 pm

I wonder if the coaches came with the 3 piece rear door if extreme would be modifying to a one piece.

Extreme will do what ever you want,all it takes is coach bucs.

Re: Engine hatch changes by extreme- advantage?

Reply #20 – August 30, 2016, 04:51:38 pm

I agree with Michelle. Clearly if you like your rear hatch or rear ladder as it is then do nothing. If you want to do something else then do that. The OP asked about advantages to rear hatch changes. We can each do as we choose. I am not going to be critical of your choices just as I would hope you would respect mine. Be careful not to wander off topic.

That being said, I have a factory original rear hatch and ladder that work well for me. But you should see the custom lighting in my engine bay.

Re: Engine hatch changes by extreme- advantage?

Reply #21 – August 30, 2016, 06:04:36 pm

Michelle, I did not intend to be critical of anyone who has the conversion, I just didn't understand why except for cosmetics why the conversions were done. On my coach if you don't lift it high enough to latch it, the bottom is in your face and you have to duck to get under it. Drier climate may have something to do with not having any rust and I don't know what the star nuts are. I see the three screws you are talking about on the side of each rung, but me, under 200 lbs. doesn't seem to be a problem.

Re: Engine hatch changes by extreme- advantage?

Reply #22 – August 30, 2016, 06:42:09 pm

Trent,
The rusted Star nuts I am referring to are in the stand off tubes themselves. There are two in each stand off, one in either end. There are ¼-20 screws that hole the vertical section of the latter with a shaped plastic insert on the ladder upright, and a flat head ¼-20 screw that comes through the back of the cast foot. The screws that hold the feet to the coach are either #12 or #14 oval head Stainless Steel. To remove the stand off tubes from the coach, merely remove the two oval head screws and break the bead of caulking. To remove the star nuts, if they don't just fall out in pieces, I used a punch from the other end withe the center of the foot placed over a hole so the screw had somewhere to go. The star nut was so brittle, it just imploded on the first tap. If it is in better shape, use some liquid wrench and soak it for a while and then try an impact driver on the flat head screw. Just varies depending on how rusted the star nuts are.
Don

Quote from: TulsaTrent – August 30, 2016, 02:49:01 pm

Don,
I backed into something on the way home from purchasing our Foretravel a couple of years ago. I removed all of the bottom section except the standoff locations. Those star nuts seem to be rusted through and I have a hard time getting a grip on them to unscrew them.
What was your secret to removing yours (maybe no rust)? Maybe it's a two-person job and I need to get Jean involved.
Any assistance or advice appreciated.

Thanks,

Trent

Re: Engine hatch changes by extreme- advantage?

Reply #23 – August 30, 2016, 06:56:47 pm

Hans,
I used some ¼-20 stainless steel carriage bolts from the ladder upright side into a stainless coupling nut withe a ¼-20 stainless flat head screw from the back of the foot. I will try to find a picture of two that shows it.
Hans,
I used some ¼-20 stainless steel carriage bolts from the ladder upright side into a stainless coupling nut, a lock washer, a standard nut, and some loctite thread locker on one side of the coupling nut. I then used a ¼-20 stainless flat head screw from the back of the foot. I will try to find a picture or two that shows it.
Don

Quote from: Hans&Marjet – August 30, 2016, 04:31:56 pm

Modified the lower portion long ago to eliminate the rusting star nut problem.
Don..can you elaborate on modification for the lower portion

Thx

Hans

Re: Engine hatch changes by extreme- advantage?

Reply #24 – August 30, 2016, 07:42:28 pm

Love the hatch mod....but $4000 buys a LOT of love !

Affiliate Notice