Hydraulic pump Maintance?

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Hydraulic pump Maintance?

December 14, 2016, 06:40:50 pm

I was working on one of my Aqua Hot customers coach and he has an 2006 Country Coach with a Cummings engine and he said he had to be towed one time because is Hydraulic pump that ran his fans and power steering went out and he found out there was a maintenance that had to be done every 20,000 miles and he bought it with almost 21k on it so it failed. Is there anything like that on my M11 engine?

Re: Hydraulic pump Maintance?

Reply #1 – December 14, 2016, 07:58:47 pm

Sounds kinda whimpy to me. I have friend with 2006 CC Magna and he did not mention this to me when they were here but I will email him to see what he say's.
JohnH

Re: Hydraulic pump Maintance?

Reply #2 – December 14, 2016, 08:30:50 pm

The PTO on some coaches is a dry set up the coupler and the pump splines would ware out quickly. There are 2 "fixes" one is a greasable splin coupling or a wet PTO set up. I beleave Brad M had a go around with his PTO.

Re: Hydraulic pump Maintance?

Reply #3 – December 14, 2016, 08:51:01 pm

Quote from: prevostart – December 14, 2016, 06:40:50 pm

I was working on one of my Aqua Hot customers coach and he has an 2006 Country Coach with a Cummings engine and he said he had to be towed one time because is Hydraulic pump that ran his fans and power steering went out and he found out there was a maintenance that had to be done every 20,000 miles and he bought it with almost 21k on it so it failed. Is there anything like that on my M11 engine?

Do not believe you have the pto problem, but you do have 3 filters in your hyd reservoir that should be changed periodically.

Re: Hydraulic pump Maintance?

Reply #4 – December 14, 2016, 10:06:47 pm

Correct. If a PTO driven pump and not upgraded/retrofitted with either a wet kit or greased regularly, it WILL fail and big $$. They also have filters.

Actually, all Foretravel hydraulic systems have filters. That large black can in back of the engine room on most models. Most have three stacked filters on top of each other. Not difficult to service. If you want details, let us know. It is an easy do it yourself job.

Re: Hydraulic pump Maintance?

Reply #5 – December 14, 2016, 11:05:00 pm

yes the PTO was the problem and my friend had his go while driving down the I 5 in Northern Calif.
JohnH

Re: Hydraulic pump Maintance?

Reply #6 – December 15, 2016, 10:38:57 am

Yes! He said it was a PTO drive where the problem was and I do believe he changed it. And I have not changed filters or oil in large black resevor .

Re: Hydraulic pump Maintance?

Reply #7 – December 15, 2016, 11:03:38 am

OK, received a PM asking for how to change hydraulic filters. So, here goes:

Most are tall black round canisters toward the back of the engine room where there are very accessible with three stacked filters inside-- so that is what I will cover. Some coaches also have smaller canisters/filters for the power steering system-- same basic procedure, but different number of filters and perhaps different filter element.

Clean the top of the canister very well and I tape a piece of newspaper or plastic on the engine room ceiling so no dirt will fall in the reservoir while it is open.

Two bolts hold the banjo-type ring that hold the lid on the reservoir. Remove it. There is a gasket on the lid-- reusable in most cases. If the lid to canister does leak, that gasket can easily be replaced now or later by just removing the two bolts and lid.

PTO-driven hydraulic pumps have a totally different and unrelated issue. PTO-driven hydraulic pumps are rare on older Foretravels. They are easily identified, as the pump (and all those hydraulic hoses) come off the TRANSMISSION instead of being engine driven.

Using a 5' length of cheap clear PVC hose, start a siphon and drain the reservoir completely. You are removing the oil from the outside of the filters themselves (between reservoir side and filters) This is IMPORTANT, as the oil on the outside of the filters is UNFILTERED and you do not want to mix it with the filtered oil inside the filters.

Remove (no tools needed) the large wing nut, spring if present and large washer holding down the stacked filters. Remove the filters and discard (save washer and wing nut). Clean the inside of the reservoir if any contaminants (usually none). Install new filters (stacked), large washer (centered to locate the filters on center), spring if present and wing nut.

Fill with the correct fluid-- should be label on the reservoir. Do NOT listen to others about what is correct fluid for THEIR coach, use what factory recommended for YOUR coach by Foretravel. In many, it is Delo 400 15-40 motor oil, but others may have ATF or hydraulic fluid. Again, use ONLY what is correct fluid for YOUR coach.

Allow time for fluid to fill the inside of the filters and recheck fluid level.

You are now good for a couple of more years-- unless you found evidence of metal (sheen in oil) or other indicators of mechanical issues.

The PTO-driven hydraulic pumps present a completely different and unrelated issue. PTO-driven pumps are easily identified as the pump and those large hydraulic lines are on the TRANSMISSION, not engine. Rare on older Foretravels. Used on more recent Foretravels, Country Coaches, etc.

Re: Hydraulic pump Maintance?

Reply #8 – December 15, 2016, 11:40:03 am

Quote from: wolfe10 – December 15, 2016, 11:03:38 am

Rare on older Foretravels. Used on more recent Foretravels, Country Coaches, etc.

Brett,

How old is older? Where does my 2000 U295 fit in your "older" scale?

Thanks,

Trent

Re: Hydraulic pump Maintance?

Reply #9 – December 15, 2016, 11:55:34 am

Trent,

Doubt that you have a PTO-driven hydraulic pump. Again VERY easy to see whether the hydraulic pump is engine (non-PTO) or transmission (PTO) driven. May even be able to see from back of coach. Just trace the large size line from hydraulic reservoir to the pump. Worse case: Best to crawl under and look.

Here is a couple of year old discussion on this (happens to pertain to Country Coach), but the PTO would be the same:

Radiator PTO Pump mounted on Allison 4000MH Transmission

Re: Hydraulic pump Maintance?

Reply #10 – December 15, 2016, 12:09:09 pm

How many quarts (approx.) for service?

Quote from: wolfe10 – December 15, 2016, 11:03:38 am

Fill with the correct fluid-- should be label on the reservoir. Do NOT listen to others about what is correct fluid for THEIR coach, use what factory recommended for YOUR coach by Foretravel. In many, it is Delo 400 15-40 motor oil, but others may have ATF or hydraulic fluid. Again, use ONLY what is correct fluid for YOUR coach.

Re: Hydraulic pump Maintance?

Reply #11 – December 15, 2016, 12:14:58 pm

I'm not sure what the recommended service time is on the hydraulic system oil and filters is but like the differential oil change it is likely over looked by many of us.
Additives evaporate off over time and the oil will loose it's ability to keep the seals soft and pliable.
Fresh oil and filters are our best shot at a pump and valve long trouble free life.

Re: Hydraulic pump Maintance?

Reply #12 – December 15, 2016, 12:29:09 pm

Quote from: AC7880 – December 15, 2016, 12:09:09 pm

How many quarts (approx.) for service?

Couple of gallons. Since it is the same oil and the engine, never really paid much attention to it as always had engine oil on hand.

For those mathematicians among us, shouldn't be hard to calculate volume with diameter and height of reservoir if you are having to buy an oil for just this purpose.

And, unless you find contamination in the system (metal sheen to oil, presence of moisture, etc) just replacing the filters and fluid in the reservoir is sufficient. No need to replace all the fluid in the whole system. Sure, if a hydraulic fan motor or power steering pump fail, then complete flush is called for. In that case, you would remove the return line at the reservoir and fill until new/clean fluid comes out return line. Just like we used to do on transmissions where we pulled off the return line from the transmission cooler and ran it until clean fluid came out.

Re: Hydraulic pump Maintance?

Reply #13 – December 15, 2016, 12:32:54 pm

I just had mine changed and I think it was about 6 gal.

Rich

Re: Hydraulic pump Maintance?

Reply #14 – December 15, 2016, 12:35:39 pm

Will be in your Foretravel books, if you have them.

Re: Hydraulic pump Maintance?

Reply #15 – December 15, 2016, 01:18:54 pm

Do you have part # for filters? looks like 3 to 4 gallons?

Re: Hydraulic pump Maintance?

Reply #16 – December 15, 2016, 01:44:01 pm

My 1996 U320 hydraulic reservoir uses three (stacked) Nelson 84101B filters, available from RyderFleetProducts.com and other places.

Re: Hydraulic pump Maintance?

Reply #17 – December 15, 2016, 02:09:32 pm

When Nelson and Fleetguard swapped some filter production around this filter in the Fleetguard line got a new number 87610A same filter just new number and a fancy new box. There are still plenty of the Nelson 84101B filters still available like has been posted above. The number for the tank lid gasket has remained the same 999-55A.

Pamela & Mike

Re: Hydraulic pump Maintance?

Reply #18 – December 16, 2016, 08:45:28 am

Be very careful removing the wing nut and washer. They will be coated with oil and very slippery. Dropping either one could end with it entering the output line. You don't want to go there.

Re: Hydraulic pump Maintance?

Reply #19 – December 16, 2016, 09:42:48 am

Quote from: amos.harrison – December 16, 2016, 08:45:28 am

Be very careful removing the wing nut and washer. They will be coated with oil and very slippery. Dropping either one could end with it entering the output line. You don't want to go there.

X2 on Brett's caution. I learned that one the hard way. Luckily, I was able to snag the washer with a magnetic pick-up tool.

Also, when changing hydraulic filters, do not be tempted to try to drain the tank from below. It is much better, as (the other) Brett said (in his "how to" post above), to remove the oil from the top of the tank. If you remove the output line from the the bottom of the tank (to drain it), you risk a number of undesirable potential complications. Like: you make a big mess, you introduce air into the system, you can get dirt into the fitting or hose, and the fitting might leak when reinstalled (when it never leaked before).

You can try siphoning out the old oil, or (if the oil is very cold) use a cheap disposable pump. Something like this would probably do the job:

Flotec FPDMP21SA-P2 Self Priming Drill Pump - Walmart.com

Re: Hydraulic pump Maintance?

Reply #20 – December 16, 2016, 10:34:40 am

Ordered 3 Nelson filters 87610A and 1 gasket 999.55A and I have extra oil from when when I changed engine oil, How often do you service that? Thanks' again Art

Re: Hydraulic pump Maintance?

Reply #21 – December 16, 2016, 11:40:04 am

Harbor freight has a very good, very cheap pump that works well

Re: Hydraulic pump Maintance?

Reply #22 – December 16, 2016, 11:50:39 am

I blew a hydraulic line on our coast to coast last month. With the tank empty, I tried to add three gallons but too much. Lots of oil left in the pump/lines/motors so suggest filling gallon containers with the old oil to see what the tank holds. Capacity may vary with models. Fill two gallons and add more continuing to monitor dip stick.

Our hose failure was entirely my fault as I missed the chaffing in the preflight. Having new hoses made up costs about $60 each average. Easy to change but 1" and possibly 1-1/16" crow's foot make it a snap.

OK, for step by step instructions with lots of photos, go to our great Foretravel site that Barry made for our coaches with the hydraulic oil change featured with filter part number, etc. Every photos is worth a thousand words. Hydraulic Oil and Filter Change

Pierce

Re: Hydraulic pump Maintance?

Reply #23 – December 16, 2016, 12:32:11 pm

How often do you service that? Thanks' again Art.

To answer that one Art I would not worry about it again for a few years, unless of course you have a pump or fan problem that could affect the oil.
JohnH

Re: Hydraulic pump Maintance?

Reply #24 – December 16, 2016, 03:46:48 pm

Art, you change the oil and filters every 25,000 miles.

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