Advice on high-end coaches

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Advice on high-end coaches

December 26, 2016, 11:20:24 am

First, some context:
I have been visiting dealers, attending RV shows, reading, forums, etc for about 20 mos in preparation for retirement and buying our first coach. My goal is to go full time once we sell the house and accumulated "stuff".

I have decided to focus on older high-end diesel pushers, pulling an off-road capable toad (which I also have never owned). I plan to attend the Escapees Boot Camp in March to get a better handle on full time RVing and how to best proceed in getting a solid, well-maintained coach.

Questions: I have been drawn primarily to Foretravel, Country Coach, and Beaver. Does anyone have experiences or knowledge that would lead us to shy away from or be drawn to any of these? Or, are they generally equal quality and I just need to hush my "inner engineer monkeys"? Are there "good" years or "bad" years we should be aware of? Any and all thoughts are welcome.

Second, we prefer an automatic transmission toad, and wonder about Jeeps vs other brands. Having never owned an off-road vehicle or done off-roading, I have no clue what I need to be consider in selecting a toad. I don't anticipate doing intentionally had-core off-roading, I want to know I can deal with unexpected obstacles and get out of difficult situations we stumble into.
What are your experiences and suggestions? Any model years of vehicles that we should avoid?

Tanks for your wisdom and support!
Ken
Wannabe getting close

Re: Advice on high-end coaches

Reply #1 – December 26, 2016, 01:38:13 pm

As for toad, most Jeeps with 4wheel drive Cherokees, Grand Cherokees and Wrangler type ore towable with 4 wheels down. Just depends on how much off road you are referring to.

Re: Advice on high-end coaches

Reply #2 – December 26, 2016, 05:15:07 pm

Schake,

Welcome to the ForeForum.

You have mentioned some good quality coaches.

Be aware that Foretravel only built ONE quality coach (upper middle, just shy of conversion coaches). Several of the others offer a wide range of qualities from lower than Foretravel to higher (in some cases).

Said another way, a Country Coach Allure is NOT the same as a CC Magna or CC conversion coach. Same for Beaver-- their entry level coaches with rear radiator, many without an air dryer, etc are clearly not in the same league. But Beaver high end coaches like the Marquis are.

Re: Advice on high-end coaches

Reply #3 – December 26, 2016, 05:37:47 pm

For one thing, and a very important thing, Beaver is not made anymore, neither is Country Coach, as goes Alpine and Airstream, plus Blue Bird. After our AS was wrecked, I looked at all the options, which were not many : Newell, Marathon Prevost, and Fore Travel. The more checking I did (especially on this forum) the more FT became the choice. Granted, no coach goes without problems, especially without proper service and attention, so buying ANY coach is dicey. I'd not buy a coach "off the lot", I'd look on this Forum and R.V. trader, which connects you with the owner. Good hunting, it's great fun out here!

P.S., Paperwork (or lack of) will make or break the deal. We paid 10k more than normal for this coach, but the four 3-ring binders listing everything done over the years convinced us.

Re: Advice on high-end coaches

Reply #4 – December 26, 2016, 05:51:50 pm

Also, there are a number of off roaders on here and they tow jeeps. I would say if you are going to do hardcore stuff you will want a trailer as you will grenade stuff and the tires will not take being pulled a long way as they are softer and bigger and much more expensive. I towed a wrangler about 360K miles with no issues and took it on many offered trips but not hardcore rock crawling.

Re: Advice on high-end coaches

Reply #5 – December 26, 2016, 06:14:03 pm

Welcome, Ken. Doing your homework is always a good thing, especially when large dollar amounts are involved. We are full-timers, but about two years before I retired we started researching what we needed. What you need is not necessarily what we need, but your process will probably be similar to ours.

Based on your proposed plans, you are correct to be looking at high end motor homes. When we were researching I joined several brand-specific forums. I tried to join the one for Beaver, but was told that I had to own one in order to join. I promptly took that brand off of our list. I took Country Coach off the list after I found out that there is a family feud going with those who own CC. I didn't want to be part of that. They may have gotten that settled by now, but I'd rather have a coach that has a good support system behind it.

Most four-wheel-drive Jeeps can be towed four-down, but check the owner's manual to be sure. We bought our 2012 Liberty (used) specifically because, at that time, we needed a 4WD vehicle that could be towed 4 down. Naturally, after we bought the Jeep the need for it as gone away, but I think that I'll probably always have that capability - just because.

Another brand of coach you might consider is Newell. Like Foretravel, they only build high end coaches. Unlike Foretravel, every coach is a custom build, which makes servicing them somewhat of a challenge at times. Fortunately, there is an excellent forum and the company provides 24/7 phone service for all owners. Personally, their coaches are a bit garish inside for me, but to each his own.

Re: Advice on high-end coaches

Reply #6 – December 26, 2016, 06:15:20 pm

As others have said a lot of pros and con to the brands you mentioned. The forum and the fact that Foretravel is still around makes them an up front choice. I bought ours in 2005 from a bus conversion dealer (Featherlite) the original owner traded it on a new conversion. At the time I had no idea what a foretravel was I just knew quality when I see it, we have never looked back. These old non slide coaches are hard to beat. We pull a Jeep Wrangler unlimited that is stock it has /will take you about any where you need to go by yourself, easy to set up to tow and tows good. Have fun on your hunt 🚶🌵😎

Re: Advice on high-end coaches

Reply #7 – December 26, 2016, 06:31:29 pm

I have some experience with C Coach Magna and it is a good coach. Well thought out design and placement of serviceable items.
The build is very good and internal woodwork as good as any and better. We have had 3 Fts and this at the moment is my preference, as I have got used to the mentality etc that went into the design and build. One issue that I and mechanics like about the FT is the accessibility of engine and related parts. I do not know of any other make that has the wide open rear door and that and the under bed access make working on them simple (almost)
Prevost conversions are good but expensive and tough to find one that does not look like a Vegas changing room.
Tow vehicle we have is the Tracker and we have taken it (and previous one) into some pretty tight areas and actually drove down a very rocky river bed that started at 4000 ft and finished at 1000 ft in Mexico. I love this car as they are reliable, not expensive and tow 4 down while being auto tranny 4 WD.
Lots of options.
JohnH

Re: Advice on high-end coaches

Reply #8 – December 26, 2016, 06:44:47 pm

What ever you get for a toad, it needs to fit your primary needs. We have a 1998 Wrangler, 6 cyl, 5 speed. (We have had three before this one) It is great for the wide range of use that it provides. There is a big difference between following a back woods trail or old road in the desert, driving in the sand dunes, following a rugged boulder strewn trail or driving in the mud (most fun). Different equipment is needed for these, different tires, winches, higher lift kits, roll cages, skid plates and more. If you want to follow those trails and less used roads and explore where most folks aren't going to drive their car then most 4WD's with some ground clearance will be OK.

An automatic is an OK choice for most uses.

Anything that is a rock crawler or sand racer is not likely going to be an easy tow. Our Wrangler is a great all purpose solution but it is not a car that we would want to have to drive several hundred mile in. The seats are comfortable but it rides like a Jeep and it is noisy.

And buying a nice $45K Grand Cherokee or more for a fancy "off road capable" something begs the question are you going to drive on narrow trails through the woods with scratchy branches doing what they do or risk rock rash? Our older Jeep has all,that and more. Badges of experience.

Spend your money on a Foretravel. An experienced Jeep will give you a chance to try it out off road with less cash up front. If it works great, if you want more comfort someone else will buy the Jeep and you can move on.

Welcome to our community. Lots of experience (and opinions) here.

Re: Advice on high-end coaches

Reply #9 – December 26, 2016, 06:55:17 pm

Quote from: John Haygarth – December 26, 2016, 06:31:29 pm

Prevost conversions are good but expensive and tough to find one that does not look like a Vegas changing room.

We went a ways to look at this one, pretty (outside) upon entering, the fake plastic chandeliers and the look of a operating room on steroids made our exit easy.

Re: Advice on high-end coaches

Reply #10 – December 26, 2016, 07:20:08 pm

Quote from: kb0zke – December 26, 2016, 06:14:03 pm

Welcome, Ken. Doing your homework is always a good thing, especially when large dollar amounts are involved. We are full-timers, but about two years before I retired we started researching what we needed. What you need is not necessarily what we need, but your process will probably be similar to ours.

Based on your proposed plans, you are correct to be looking at high end motor homes. When we were researching I joined several brand-specific forums. I tried to join the one for Beaver, but was told that I had to own one in order to join. I promptly took that brand off of our list. I took Country Coach off the list after I found out that there is a family feud going with those who own CC. I didn't want to be part of that. They may have gotten that settled by now, but I'd rather have a coach that has a good support system behind it.

Most four-wheel-drive Jeeps can be towed four-down, but check the owner's manual to be sure. We bought our 2012 Liberty (used) specifically because, at that time, we needed a 4WD vehicle that could be towed 4 down. Naturally, after we bought the Jeep the need for it as gone away, but I think that I'll probably always have that capability - just because.

Another brand of coach you might consider is Newell. Like Foretravel, they only build high end coaches. Unlike Foretravel, every coach is a custom build, which makes servicing them somewhat of a challenge at times. Fortunately, there is an excellent forum and the company provides 24/7 phone service for all owners. Personally, their coaches are a bit garish inside for me, but to each his own.

As each Newell is custom designed by its original owner, you can find some not so garish.1995 Newell Coach Newell 45' Priced at $ 79500

Re: Advice on high-end coaches

Reply #11 – December 26, 2016, 08:37:13 pm

I tow a 98 Suzuki Sidekick with an automatic trans, they are well built and easy to work on and they are light. The Trackers and Suzuki Vitaras were made up until 2004 in the true 4x4. I prefer the Suzuki 98 and older as they ride a little stiffer then the newer ones. My wife's tracker is a 2003 and drives me like a car. If I wanted anything newer I would go for the Honda Element. For off roading either automatics or standards work well, I've used both

Re: Advice on high-end coaches

Reply #12 – December 26, 2016, 08:55:56 pm

2001 through 2005 Toyota RAV4 all wheel manual trans for 4 down. Toyota reliability with 200K trouble free miles on ours. Short wheelbase and good ground clearance means it goes off road well. Weighs just under 3000 lbs. No timing belt. 2.4 liters pulls heavy trailers like a mule. 2006 up don't have manual trans in the U.S. Always a pleasure to drive.

Pierce

Re: Advice on high-end coaches

Reply #13 – December 26, 2016, 08:57:46 pm

Hi Ken, Having owned an "Airstream, Blue Bird, and currently Our Foretravel", I can attest to the fact that buying an older well maintained, high end coach is a much better choice than buying a newer mass produced motorhome. There are some well maintained low mileage coaches available that would be a great value for a new owner. Foretravel or any coach, built with the 102' body width (1992) and later would be my first consideration. The extra 6" width make a big difference in interior room. Also mid-entry or front-entry door should be considered. Slideouts are nice if you need/want extra interior room, but they can be troublesome. I like Foretravels' eight -8- out board airbag suspension, I don't know of any other manufacturer that has that. Well that's enough for now, I am sure others will add to these points.

We have towed a Jeep Grand Cherokee, Jeep Wrangler and currently a Dodge Dakota 4x4, and have had no problems towing four down with any of them. (You do want to tow four (4) down!)

Re: Advice on high-end coaches

Reply #14 – December 26, 2016, 09:28:45 pm

Like Brett stated other brands have different quality models. The '96 Monaco Signature I just sold had many Foretravel features, 8 outboard air bags, Aqua Hot 10 Kw gen. Zip Dee awnings M-11 400 hp. and 4000 series Alison. The Signatures went to 42 feet somewhere around '99 The lower models were not close to a Foretravel.

here are some pics

Re: Advice on high-end coaches

Reply #15 – December 26, 2016, 11:07:07 pm

Decide what lengths of coach you want while deciding what brand. Also decide what engines and transmissions you may want. Build a wish list.

Example:
We wanted 40' max. (36' to 40' is our "sweet spot").
6 speed Allison transmission with 2 overdrive speeds. (Those 2 overdrive gears and division of 6 speed gearing makes a big difference)
2 slides max.
4 stroke diesel engine not a 2 stroke.
Excellent online community to provide support.
Desired but not absolutely required, company still in business.
Excellent build quality and good reputation.
Desired, not absolutely required: dual pane windows, screen door, good insulation.
Built in washer/dryer combo or separates.

Those desires eliminated some brands, years, and models.

"Some" Bluebirds, and "many" Foretravels met our wish list.

Re: Advice on high-end coaches

Reply #16 – December 27, 2016, 12:45:38 am

Before I discovered foretravel, I considered rexhall, family owned with a one piece fiberglass roof. The one I looked at appeared to have good bones, just not as substantial as the FT. JMO. California based, so factory service is a long haul for most.

Re: Advice on high-end coaches

Reply #17 – December 27, 2016, 07:11:16 am

We are on our 3rd Foretravel, first was a 1984 on a Roadmaster chassis, then a 1990 36' U280, Now we have a 1997 U295. Each on has had a special place in our heart an wallet. As far we are concerned, Foretravel is our coach of choice as we have lived fairly close to the factory and other qualified repair facilities that know these coaches. Have been a happy Foretravel owner for over 30 years. As far a a vehicle to tow, we have a Jeep Wrangler. Below is an article on setting one up for towing. We used this as a guideline and have been extremely happy.
Wrangler Towing Upgrades

John

Re: Advice on high-end coaches

Reply #18 – December 27, 2016, 09:58:13 am

Consider travel plans and geographic location as well, when deciding what you need in a motorhome.

For example, we are currently full-timing in our first winter Maryland, and we were prepared to wrap our Foretravel up like little brother Randy in The Christmas Story - but after 3 straight days temperatures in the low teens, and careful placement of 8 temperature probes, we found that our furnace kept the vulnerable portions of the coach in the 40's without the use of any auxiliary heat. So FT has been exactly what we hoped for in that respect.

Would it be sufficient in Edmonton, Canada without some modifications? Surely not. Would it be overkill if we lived in Tampa Bay, FL? Of course. Maybe a 12 gallon propane tank and single pane windows would be sufficient for our winter heating needs in that region. But we don't have the luxury of relocating in the winter (yet).

Another geographic consideration would be your service options. Our travel plans this spring will revolve around at least one trip to Nacogdoches, TX - but we were planning to travel through that area anyway so it is not an inconvenience to us. However, if you live in Northern California and plan to spend retirement on the west coast, then maybe easy access to the Country Coach service center in Oregon would be more valuable to you than to someone travelling through Alabama.

Re: Advice on high-end coaches

Reply #19 – December 27, 2016, 10:06:05 am

Also worth nothing that, from an entirely subjective standpoint of a Foretravel owner for only three months, we couldn't be happier with our decision. Great coach, great forum - in retrospect it is clear we made the right decision based on our personal needs and available options. Don't see us owning any other company's product in the foreseeable future.

Re: Advice on high-end coaches

Reply #20 – December 27, 2016, 10:07:23 am

Quote from: Blinded04 – December 27, 2016, 09:58:13 am

However, if you live in Northern California and plan to spend retirement on the west coast, then maybe easy access to the Country Coach service center in Oregon would be more valuable to you than to someone travelling through Alabama.

Very true. Same goes for Beaver, Alpine and Marathon Prevost. They were all made in the PNW and that's where the old timers that built those fine coaches still are, I hope.

Re: Advice on high-end coaches

Reply #21 – December 27, 2016, 12:38:48 pm

and Marathon Prevost. They were all made in the PNW???
Marathon also makes them in Florida so 50/50 chance from either place.
JohnH

Re: Advice on high-end coaches

Reply #22 – December 27, 2016, 01:09:05 pm

A 91-92 3176 cat Marquis is a very good coach. Seen Internet people actively looking for certain floorplans.

A country coach is my other choice.

Even the allure I sold new in 96 has 250k on it.

I have a non running gear guru here in so cal for all brands. Was the Newell factory warranty guy for years. No Newell. Intense expensive service.

Re: Advice on high-end coaches

Reply #23 – December 27, 2016, 01:36:08 pm

Took me a minute to figure that last sentence out,he works on non running stuff,he still runs.

Re: Advice on high-end coaches

Reply #24 – December 27, 2016, 07:17:25 pm

Ken,

Looks like you have a sound plan. When we started out looking for a "real" motorhome, we knew some stuff in an old coach could be replaced, repaired and cleaned up, given a bit of muscle and/or rubbing money on it. Our '95 needed love and all of the above, but...hey, don't we all? Good bones, etc.

The driverside mirror in this photo, from our day of purchase, gave me something to do immediately. One missing, one wrong and one funky/unresponsive; mostly green) so, I replaced the missing mirrors at little cost from the OEM and got ready to survey my next project. I was overwhelmed then, but didn't recognize the sensation, like a calm panic after purchase. (Manufacturers abound with parts and the quality of most are really remarkable.) One step a time, right?

Window treatments, Res Fridge, AC upgrades, fuel lines, headlights and the other stuff came later. We felt that we could bring this project together before we retired on last April Fool's Day and we did. So far, so good.

Now we are painting. What fun! Floor it, Ken.

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