Oil Analysis, Many of You Do This?

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Oil Analysis, Many of You Do This?

January 20, 2017, 12:39:43 am

Without presenting here all of the chemical analyses, here is the latest engine oil analysis done for our coach by Blackstone Laboratory. I wonder if many do this or we are one of the very few? First test I had done was three years ago and they are comparing against that test when they are talking in terms of wear. I think contamination refers to silicon, perhaps other as well. Don Hay taught me to have this done periodically.

The verbal report:

"MIKE: There's not a lot of change to report for this ISM. These results are pretty much identical to what we
found last time, which is nice because this oil was in use for a similar interval. Steady wear like this is the
hallmark of a healthy engine. There isn't any indication of poor wear or mechanical fatigue, and there wasn't
any contamination to mention either. The viscosity was on target for a 15W/40 and the TBN shows lots of
active additive left at 5.4. If you wanted to try 6,000 miles, we think this engine would handle it well. If not,
this interval works too. Nice report!"

Re: Oil Analysis, Many of You Do This?

Reply #1 – January 20, 2017, 12:42:38 am

I've been doing it for years. Now on my 3rd vehicle. It is a good check on an expensive piece of equipment.

Rich

Re: Oil Analysis, Many of You Do This?

Reply #2 – January 20, 2017, 06:22:19 am

Mike-- I have had the oil analyzed once a year by Blackstone and had similar good results as you.
I don't use it to extend intervals but more like a "blood work up" to see whats going on internally
gives me peace of mind

Re: Oil Analysis, Many of You Do This?

Reply #3 – January 20, 2017, 08:08:35 am

I do it on the U240 and also some farm equipment. I get the kits from the John Deere dealer which are less than $15.

Re: Oil Analysis, Many of You Do This?

Reply #4 – January 20, 2017, 08:48:57 am

I would do one every two years. I found no change when I did it every year.

Re: Oil Analysis, Many of You Do This?

Reply #5 – January 20, 2017, 09:16:44 am

Jim, i woulda done every year but last two years the changing the folks forgot my sample request even though left sample bottle on the dash along with other requests....i thought this time maybe tape it to the drain plug! Anyway got it done this year.

I did intend to get them to change the oil drain plug to the valve type but i forgot that. Nuts. Next year.

Re: Oil Analysis, Many of You Do This?

Reply #6 – January 20, 2017, 09:41:19 am

It works, saved an engine when racing a sports car several years ago. The bearings were starting to go bad, could have lost the engine. We caught it in time.

Re: Oil Analysis, Many of You Do This?

Reply #7 – January 20, 2017, 01:35:58 pm

Mike.
They mentioned going 6000 if you wanted to, How many miles would you normally go before a change ?

Re: Oil Analysis, Many of You Do This?

Reply #8 – January 20, 2017, 01:55:38 pm

I use full synthetic in my M11 with a bypass filter and have oil analysis done every two years (10,000 miles). At five years and 25,000 miles do an oil and filters change. Based on analysis results I could go longer between changes.
One person said this is no good because in Canada West coast, it would result in high moisture in the oil. Analysis has always revealed extremely low (virtually zero) moisture in the oil and recommend continued service.
I believe that most folks change their oil/filter too often!

Re: Oil Analysis, Many of You Do This?

Reply #9 – January 20, 2017, 02:00:23 pm

Quote from: P. Wyatt Sabourin – January 20, 2017, 01:55:38 pm

I use full synthetic in my M11 with a bypass filter and have oil analysis done every two years (10,000 miles). At five years and 25,000 miles do an oil and filters change. Based on analysis results I could go longer between changes.
One person said this is no good because in Canada West coast, it would result in high moisture in the oil. Analysis has always revealed extremely low (virtually zero) moisture in the oil and recommend continued service.
I believe that most folks change their oil/filter too often!

Are you referring to a Luber-finer filter, if so 750 or 500?

Re: Oil Analysis, Many of You Do This?

Reply #10 – January 20, 2017, 02:05:23 pm

My bypass is an AMSoil EaBP120, the largest sold by AMSoil, and which is recommended by AMSoil for an M11.

Re: Oil Analysis, Many of You Do This?

Reply #11 – January 20, 2017, 03:34:55 pm

In the fire department (we had CATs and Cummins), we would go well over 15,000 miles and a couple of years between oil changes, even with the heavy use (cold starts, short runs, cold shut down). The mechanics did check oil samples on a regular basis however. I'm a believer in oil changes, but will start using oil samples.

Re: Oil Analysis, Many of You Do This?

Reply #12 – January 20, 2017, 04:04:49 pm

Bob, I would have gone a bit less than the 6000 as our normal year, but this year due to an early change (omits one trip of 700 mi) we changed at 4500 (annual service when get discount in January)

I think the ISM can go longer before a mandatory change, but as I never exceed the 6000 nor do I need to add oil, I go more on annual change basis than miles. However, the Laboratory wants/needs the miles and I have them check the additive remaining just to have idea of that, would more miles be ok. Extra cost for the additive analysis. The total cost is $38 but if leave out the additive status, I think was $25?

Sven, I would like to do the sample method but probably not change my oil change annually. I cannot get a sample out of the ISM using the dip stick tube. If I had the drain valve, could get one that way. MOT advises I not try to crack the drain plug a bit, get just a little oil out....said I could not believe the mess if I could not get the plug sealed back and lost lots of oil in the driveway.....Jackie says I could not believe either the aftermath of such an error on my part.

hope that answers what wanted, if not advise.

Re: Oil Analysis, Many of You Do This?

Reply #13 – January 20, 2017, 09:31:34 pm

I usually do an oil analysis every year with the annual oil/filter change.

Historically, I've gone to SPEEDCO where they have the lab onsite and you get the results before driving away.

This year I gave Blackstone a try because I was too lazy to drive through/around Houston to the SPEEDCO.

Re: Oil Analysis, Many of You Do This?

Reply #14 – January 20, 2017, 09:50:34 pm

I look forward to doing an analysis on my engine when I hit 20,000 miles on the oil. I should be there by the summer! This is about 2500 miles short of the CAT recommendation but good even numbers make it easy to keep track of.

Re: Oil Analysis, Many of You Do This?

Reply #15 – January 20, 2017, 10:29:00 pm

I use Blackstone Laboratories for my oil reports. When I bought my coach in 2012 I didn't know the age of the oil or if it was straight 40wt as the PO told me he changed it when it needed it! It wasn't low and looked okay and I didn't know much about diesels especially Detroits. The coach had 82000 miles on it and I put about 3000 miles on it before the first analysis in 2013. I wanted to get a baseline on it and get the condition of the oil. The first report showed wear metals higher than average across the board and according to them universal averages are typical for this type of engine after about 7800 miles. The report also stated that higher than normal Sodium could be from coolant which might contributing to the wear. Fuel dilution was present at 3.0% which could show a fuel system issue such as a leaky injector. They recommended to check this engine closely and resample after 2000 miles.

There's been a lot of good hearted discussion on oil change intervals, even up to 100,000 miles on the DD6V92 Silver Series! The results of the first test bothered me so I had the oil and filter changed. In 2015 and after another 3000 miles I had it tested again and the results this time were much better. Wear metals were much improved in almost all cases. They did find a lot of silicon and said that could be from dirt and to check the air filtration system. Fuel dilution was only at 0.5% this time - a nice improvement. Since then I have changed the air filter to Napa Gold 2610 and use Howe's diesel treatment. Frequent cylinder cut-out and injector tests with the Pro-Link 9000 have given good results and show no problems. Mpg has gone up from 7.6 to 8.7. Fuel dilution and coolant in the oil are engine killers. I'll probably have another analysis done this year and if okay probably do another oil change after 15000 miles as Pierce recommended on the current oil.

Jerry

Re: Oil Analysis, Many of You Do This?

Reply #16 – January 25, 2017, 01:29:11 am

Quote from: Michael & Jackie – January 20, 2017, 04:04:49 pm

I think the ISM can go longer before a mandatory change, but as I never exceed the 6000 nor do I need to add oil

Michael I sent you a PM re. this issue but I would like wanted to get a collective opinion if I could. Have 2002 295 with 400 Cummins and 70,000 mi on the coach, I am the second owner. Oil level down to "ADD" on dip stick after 3000 miles...is this normal, abnormal, am I in trouble? I have NO experience with diesel so after reading Michael's post I'm a bit concerned at the moment. I look forward to the replies.
Thanks everyone,
dave

Re: Oil Analysis, Many of You Do This?

Reply #17 – January 25, 2017, 09:24:13 am

I have the same engine Mike H does. I never add oil either. I change the oil at 5-6000 miles and/or late October when it gets put away for the winter. I don't like the idea of it sitting for 2-5 months with old oil. This works out to once or twice a year for us. I do try to get it out for a warm up drive (40 miles or so)!omce a month when the roads are clear and dry.

A single oil test will let you know what wear metals and contaminants are in the oil. A regular series of tests will let you know if something is changing.

If you are using oil have an engine guy or Cummins take a look. It may be "normal" for your engine at its age/milage to do so. There may be some adjustments available to reduce oil consumption.

Mike, I use Polaris Labs for oil, coolant and transmission fluid testing.

http://www.polarislabs.biz/samplesupply1.aspx

They have a small pump that connects to a small tube that fits right down the dipstick tube. A sample jar screws on to the pump. Tube goes in and oil goes into the jar, never into the pump. So the same pump, different tube works for transmission fluid, same thing for coolant. Unscrew the plastic jar, attach a label and mail it off.

You can buy the jars which include the test fee. Look at the web site and give them a call for more info. Pretty easy to work with too.

Re: Oil Analysis, Many of You Do This?

Reply #18 – January 25, 2017, 10:11:00 am

Quote from: dke1955 – January 25, 2017, 01:29:11 am

Michael I sent you a PM re. this issue but I would like wanted to get a collective opinion if I could. Have 2002 295 with 400 Cummins and 70,000 mi on the coach, I am the second owner. Oil level down to "ADD" on dip stick after 3000 miles...is this normal, abnormal, am I in trouble? I have NO experience with diesel so after reading Michael's post I'm a bit concerned at the moment. I look forward to the replies.
Thanks everyone,
dave

Dave,

Keep an eye on it, but a couple of quarts in 3,000 miles would not be considered excessive by Cummins.

Be aware that Cummins did not supply the engine oil dipstick. If it is inaccurate, it could cause you to OVERfill the crankcase and the engine would (properly) puke it out the crankcase vent hose.

So, next time the oil is changed, be sure to CALIBRATE THE ENGINE OIL DIPSTICK.

Re: Oil Analysis, Many of You Do This?

Reply #19 – January 25, 2017, 10:51:00 am

Quote from: Roger & Susan in Home2 – January 25, 2017, 09:24:13 am

Mike, I use Polaris Labs for oil, coolant and transmission fluid testing.

Roger, looking over Polaris I don't see any mention of testing for coolant in engine or trans. In your experience do you find they do so?

Re: Oil Analysis, Many of You Do This?

Reply #20 – January 25, 2017, 11:43:47 am

I personally believe that we have a tendency to over manage our engines in this regard. Change the oil and filters as required and run the engine normally. If you like to max. out the RPM on a regular basis, then you may want to analyze the oil to see if you're doing harm. I also run a by-pass filter and believe it helps as well as anything to extend engine life. Be smart, be safe, and have a great day ---- Fritz

Re: Oil Analysis, Many of You Do This?

Reply #21 – January 25, 2017, 11:45:44 am

They do those tests too. Check the list of tests attached. I am watching for coolant in the transmission fluid from leaks in the coaxial transmission cooler. Rare but it happens and it is an expensive repair. All of the sample cups are the same, you just use different labels. I have the pump and three different tubes, one for each fluid. I flush them out each time to prevent any test to test contamination and store each tube in a plastic bag. I send samples to Indianapolis. There maybe other lab sites as well. They keep all of the results on line so it is easy to go back and see history.

http://www.polarislabs.biz/default.aspx

This service works for me. There are others out there to choose from as well.

Fritz, I don't use the test results to extend time between oil or transmission fluid changes. I am resting once a year to watch for changes. There is reasonable argument for testing to determine when to do oil changes especially if we drive 50 or 100K miles a year. A high milage year for us is 2 oil changes or about 5¢ a mile for an ISM11. Less if I did it myself.

Can you change to oil too often? Probably. Does it hurt the engine? No.

Re: Oil Analysis, Many of You Do This?

Reply #22 – January 26, 2017, 12:24:17 pm

I should also add that I think that using good fuel, keeping the injectors clean, and getting the most out of the fuel is also good for keeping the crankcase oil cleaner. Running an additive in the fuel is good to keep the injectors clean, as well as keeping the foot off the accelerator a little more. A lot of drivers keep their foot into the accelerator when under load and that just increases the amount of un-burned fuel which finds its way into the crankcase. Accelerate slowly and don't use more fuel than you need to pull hills. Have a great day ---- Fritz

Re: Oil Analysis, Many of You Do This?

Reply #23 – February 02, 2017, 08:48:28 am

If you have trouble using a sampling pump with tubing down the dipstick tube, make sure to trim the end of the tubing to a 45 degree angle to help clear junction points.

Re: Oil Analysis, Many of You Do This?

Reply #24 – February 02, 2017, 09:32:59 am

Amos, i did that. Back then some others had same problem so we figured it something about this engine dipstick design....

Maybe Roger's has a bit thinner wall sample tubing....may try that. One i had from Blackstone was not as flexible as would have thought, and they did tell me had others the same problem.

Thanks

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