Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair Reply #25 – January 22, 2017, 01:09:01 pm I have learned that many really just want to use RVs and not work on it in any way. One friend's annual maintenance is Camping World oil change for $300. That is it. Salesman told me, many buyers just ask, it that a diesel in the back? Perhaps there is a checklist or course in maintenance available to cover everything but not seen it so try to learn from friends and forums. Also, many people do not have time or ability to perform everything, they hire it done. It may be obvious to some what it should include, but not so to many others. Some are very mechanical in their views, some are not even interested. One best friend in high school became a master mechanic. Another could do huge things with mainframes but no idea how to check the oil on a VW. Different skills.I was on a trip with a good friend, twice problems. He told me, I bought this coach to take and use, not spend my life with it in shop or me working on it. It for fun, relaxation, maybe not for me......have enough issues at work. (He has busy life.)As for me, just not smart enough or educated enough to catch the small seal gap. My bad. Probably are more in spite of the effort I expend.P.S. Tim, mine is believed by MOT to be water from the wet bay, not road spray as there is minimal rust and not used by us on salted roads and I avoid the coast. Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair Reply #26 – January 22, 2017, 02:07:28 pm Quote from: Michael & Jackie – January 22, 2017, 01:09:01 pmAs for me, just not smart enough or educated enough to catch the small seal gap. My bad. Probably are more in spite of the effort I expend.Mike, don't sell yourself short! You have a LOT to add to the forum. Members involved enough to publish and read these posts gives anyone a real head start on those who don't.I can honestly say that I have never met someone where I wasn't envious of the knowledge and skills they have. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. The forum is a great place to blend all this knowledge together and prosper from it. Many times I find myself typing rapidly and while trying to impart some experiences I have had, I may not be the most tactful in my quick replies. Apologies.Pierce Quote Selected 6 Likes
Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair Reply #27 – January 23, 2017, 07:02:38 pm Update - Took some pics of the corroded section. Keep in mind that the corrosion in the pics is covered by the undercarriage fiberglass cover pan. This corrosion can not be casually observed. It is covered by the pan. Keith R @ MOT saw the undercarriage pan sagging about .125" towards the center of the coach next to the angle iron with the bolt heads. The screws had pulled out of the corroded tubing. At first look the tubing structure appears to only hold the undercarriage fiberglass pan in place. However, Keith R. informed that that section is an important part of the structural chassis and if it was not repaired it would cause flexing of the body that would show itself eventually in side wall cracking. I have been all over the web looking for a diagram of the chassis and it's construction so the section could be "seen", but have not found anything yet. I will see if FT has something - maybe an old promotional piece.I did not take a pic of the angle piece that has the bolt head showing in front of the rear tire. The angle iron with the bolts in them did not appear to be overly corroded.Our coach is off to the welder tomorrow morning and should be done sometime Wednesday. So we will be spending the night in a motel close to the kids and G-kids in Magnolia.I will check with MOT tomorrow to see if they have developed an inspection process.Forgot to ask the welder today about the "weld issue" but will ask tomorrow before we pull out of town.Estimated cost to repair - between $ 1800.00 to $3,000.00.Maybe the best way to see/inspect this area is to have 18" to 20" cut all of the way across the coach in front of the angle iron with the bolt heads. I hesitate making this post as I do not wish to unduly alarm folks that have coaches with this type of chassis construction, but those that do, should be aware that this does exist. Quote Selected 7 Likes
Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair Reply #28 – January 23, 2017, 07:12:03 pm Now that is scary and add to the fact I had the bulkhead checked every year since it was discovered. It means that the new check is to cut the bottom back. Quote Selected
Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair Reply #29 – January 23, 2017, 07:16:12 pm Wow just seeing that gives me a sick feeling .Glad you found it before anything bad happened! Quote Selected
Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair Reply #30 – January 23, 2017, 07:57:39 pm Here is my friends in Idaho. Coach came from Alaska. He is fixing it himself.He did the bolt repair once before.I watch ours, but it has been weld with a strip across, then sealed.No RustChris Quote Selected
Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair Reply #31 – January 23, 2017, 08:01:20 pm Don't think that sealing it will prevent the rust. The water can come from inside as well. I think after seeing this and knowing how I inspected the bulked very often that the only way to tell is to cut the bottom pan. Quote Selected
Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair Reply #32 – January 23, 2017, 08:08:53 pm Scott, my question is, how far back did this rust go?JohnH Quote Selected
Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair Reply #33 – January 23, 2017, 08:54:32 pm Cover the entire bottom with Lexan so we can keep an eye on things? Quote Selected 2 Likes
Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair Reply #34 – January 23, 2017, 09:17:26 pm I would have responded sooner but the MacBook Pro was updating it's OS.It appears that the corrosion is most severe by the angle iron and extends forward about 16". It decreases in intensity as you look forward. It seems as if the water pooled there or was the wettest there for the longest period of time - over and over again. I suppose if the seal between the fiberglass belly pan and the square tube bolted to the angle iron was broken so water could/would seep into the distressed area - capillary action?. Also strange the worst corrosion appears to be on the outside corners of the square tube that is bolted to the angle iron. Chris - I am not an expert in this area, but I would hope that your friend completely understand what he is doing. That section is an integral structural assembly and should be replaced by a knowledgeable welder. The welder that is replacing that material on our Ol' Girl Too, is increasing the thickness of the square tube wall with material that is 3 times thicker than OEM.Spoke with John S on the phone a short time ago and he suggested that now would be the time to extend the fresh water overflow to below the fiberglass belly pan. It will be done.The more I think about this problem the more questions become apparent. Too easy to second guess how it happened, why it happened and what could have been done differently for this not to have happened.The important thing is that it was detected by a very knowledgeable guy and he was able to bring this problem to my attention so it can be repaired. Yeah - The 3 CB are important but if the 3 CB are significant to the point that will cause me to sell the coach or not buy one then I should not be doing this in the first place. In my way of thinking it should be considered in the same category as replacing tires, batteries and many other things that must be maintained over time. Nothing lasts forever. After all, I am old, bald and fat. Oh that I was still 20 or 30 or 40 or even 50. Well maybe not 50, I was losing my hair then but was not yet too fat. Quote Selected 5 Likes
Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair Reply #35 – January 23, 2017, 09:31:19 pm Scott I like the beefing up of wall section and wonder why others have not gone up that amount in previous repairs. As long as the outside dimension is kept the same the heavier the thickness is the better as far as I go . When they join the new to old are they bolting it there as well as angle or welding it as it would be impossible to weld the top side?JohnH Quote Selected
Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair Reply #36 – January 23, 2017, 09:50:53 pm John - I will cross the welding issues with the welder tomorrow before they begin to cut the old out and replace with the new assembly. Michael H's coach was repaired by the same welding company and he too has increased wall thickness in the same OD dimension of the square tubing that makes up the assembly. As to why others didn't "beef" up the wall thickness I can only guess. I am getting tired of guessing. I just want this chapter to end so we can burn some diesel on our way to AZ. Quote Selected 3 Likes
Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair Reply #37 – January 23, 2017, 10:12:41 pm Wow, looking at all the photos showing the results of water leakage, it does seem that when replacement frames are welded in, they should be 100% seal welded between all possible areas ( a small seam can be welded without it compromising the actual height of the tube ). This will stop any possible capillary action of water ingress. The final connection between the old frame and the replacement frame could be coated with an epoxy sealer (or ?) on the top edge of the frame, which would be allowed to cure before a small 100% seal weld is applied on the lower joint ( the heat generated by the weld will not compromise the epoxy seal ).just my thoughts,GeoffHedit:need to do some thinking regarding strength integrity Quote Selected 2 Likes
Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair Reply #38 – January 23, 2017, 10:48:58 pm Geoff, you would have it made of stainless I know as all you work with is SS. Just think ,never another issue with that again.One thing I keep wondering about re the frame replacement at Bernd's is I never heard what the cost of that total replacement was, does anyone have that figure??JohnH Quote Selected
Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair Reply #39 – January 23, 2017, 11:43:21 pm Quote from: Don & Tys (AKA acousticart) – January 21, 2017, 01:09:58 amAs a point of information, the original welds were all done only on the two vertical sides, not at all on the top and bottom. This was obviously strong enough to serve the purpose, as long as the metal remains uncompromised by corrosion. The quality of the welds is very good on the welds I viewed while redoing the basement/bulkhead on our coach. That said, I welded all four sides of the tubing on my repairs. This requires extra work to end up with smooth joints which will not prevent the Fiberglas skin from tenting over the welded seams. This involves chamfering the edges of the tubing to create a space for the weld puddle to lay in as well as some careful clean up with a grinder. It is much more labor intensive to work this way and perhaps not really needed in the basement and wall framing. I will say that in the places where heavy duty stress is present like much of the supension and engine carriage etc., the tubing is usually welded on all sides and the quality of those welds look very good indeed.DonIf at all possible, I prefer to leave the bottom open to allow moisture or condensation to escape and not be trapped causing degredation somewhere in the future. In a perfect world moisture would never enter, but my world is far from perfect. Quote Selected 2 Likes
Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair Reply #40 – January 23, 2017, 11:45:22 pm I had to do this to my coach after I noticed the house battery tray sinking into the floor. The rear bulkhead showed no gap. When I cut out all the rusted structure I had to go forward 6 feet to find solid steel to graft a new frame work to. I attribute this rust to years of wet bay leakage not being properly addressed.I would suggest that any leak in the belly of the coach is unacceptable no matter how small.I used 60ft of new tubing and spent a week under my coach welding.My coach is a 1989 and the original frame lasted until now so as much as I hated to have to do the job It will now outlive me..I'm still a fan of the brand.Good luck! Quote Selected 4 Likes
Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair Reply #41 – January 24, 2017, 12:00:18 am Andy, how did you mate up the new framing to old??JohnH Quote Selected
Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair Reply #42 – January 24, 2017, 01:22:28 am Wow. These are alarming pics. Does anyone ever cut the the fiberglass belly open to find "0" problems. I like to hope so. Our coach spent a lot of time in so cal so I hope it's ok. I will be opening the belly up when the weather breaks this spring to replace the rolocks at the very least. Fascinating post. Quote Selected
Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair Reply #43 – January 24, 2017, 05:35:32 am I have not seen cutting the bottom done as a regular check. I think I would do this to my coach if I still owned it. I would probably travel to MOT and let them cut it and then let their guy weld up the fix if needed. I know that we looked and checked our bulkhead for years at every service at MOT land any time I stopped at Xtreme I had Rance look it over too. Scott's pictures shocked me and I know we're we're very careful with water overflow and con not think of a time other then changing out the reels that water was inside the bay. I bought it used and put a lot of miles on but I do remember talking to a1999 owner who had 370k on his unit and drove it in the snow too and he said he was on his third rear end. It did not sink in then as I was a new owner back in 2002 and this issue had not really made the forum though it seems that FT was fixing it for him. Quote Selected
Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair Reply #44 – January 24, 2017, 09:14:03 am Mike,If you have a sewer hose storage arrangement like we had it would be prudent to check the silicone seal where the box passes through the outside wall. I found ours leaking between the wall skins, eventually down to the bulkhead. I removed and sealed it off.I just completed repairs on both bulkheads and utilized GE Iron Grip to reinstall the skin.Bob Quote Selected
Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair Reply #45 – January 24, 2017, 09:47:28 am Quote from: flite2010 – January 24, 2017, 09:14:03 amMike,If you have a sewer hose storage arrangement like we had it would be prudent to check the silicone seal where the box passes through the outside wall. I found ours leaking between the wall skins, eventually down to the bulkhead. I removed and sealed it off.I just completed repairs on both bulkheads and utilized GE Iron Grip to reinstall the skin.Got any pictures Mike? Quote Selected
Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair Reply #46 – January 24, 2017, 11:04:23 am No one has spoken about preping the new steel in case a partial or full replacement is needed. After it's ready to go and cleaned, a self etching primer would be good followed by rust resistant paint. For the interior, nothing is better than boiled linseed oil as a few ounces will creep up the sides until it covers the interior of the tubing. Pierce Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair Reply #47 – January 24, 2017, 11:07:46 am Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – January 24, 2017, 11:04:23 amNo one has spoken about preping the new steel in case a partial or full replacement is needed. After it's ready to go and cleaned, a self etching primer would be good followed by rust resistant paint.Larry Rubin had that done to his new frame at Xtreme before installation. Quote Selected
Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair Reply #48 – January 24, 2017, 11:50:04 am Suggest LPS3 for rust prevention Quote Selected
Re: Rear Bulkhead Repair Reply #49 – January 24, 2017, 12:19:20 pm Lordy. As if I don't have enough trouble sleeping at night! Will put this thread on my list of things to check. Thank you for all the good updates.Chris Quote Selected
Topic: Rear Bulkhead Repair